DISH Network II

[mike123abc]

It won't matter. There aren't enough nationaly broadcast HD channels (or even locals) available now or anywhere in the near future to max out the bandwidth that these 2 sats from DISH will provide. Per the data that Scott provided, there is the capapcity on those 2 sats for over 1700 different channels. If Direct needs 4 sats to do that, then that means one of two things - 1. they aren't truly broadcasting in MPEG-4, or 2. They're capturing and rebroadcasting the Martian All-Day Polka Dance Fest on E.T. TV., channel 6969. So unless Direct starts farting channels out of their ass that nobody has heard of yet, I wouldn't worry about it.

This is a big flaw in peoples assumption about Dish II. DIRECTV will be in front of Dish next year. DIRECTV has the spot beam capacity on their new system with the last satellite going up this year to provide EVERY local channel in HD nationwide. This is something Dish will not be close to being able to do this year. And, probably a long ways into next year or the year after.

Dish will work around this by providing the major networks in HD for the largest markets. This will satisfy most, but this is not in any way shape or form on the scale of capacity DIRECTV has.

This is not to say Dish will be left in the dust. Dish will be able to provide the top markets with the HD people want (ABC/CBS/NBC/FOX and maybe PBS/CW). This will cover a large section of the population. Also, DIRECTV may have the capacity, but will they use it? Will DIRECTV offer LiL HD everywhere? Is it profitable to do so even if you have the empty space sitting up there on the satellite in small markets?

Dish should be able to keep up with all the nation HD channels as they are added over the next year. They can carry everything in standard definition and as channels in HD are added they can replace it with HD.

But, to compete with DIRECTV on the local HD front they will have to launch more satellites. They would have to be building the satellites right now to have a chance of getting them up next year. Covering the top 50 markets would be 66% of the population, that is probably what they can cover right away on the new system. Then it would only be limited to the majors, but few markets have independent stations in HD.

Dish will also have the advantage of having a smaller dish. Dish will also have to spend a lot less money to expand to the same carrying capacity.

I know the chance of having 100 National channels in HD by the end of the year is not looking too good, but right now they are closing in on 60 (HBO with 24 of them alone). But, most majors in most markets are broadcasting in HD, or will be soon, DIRECTV will be able to carry these locals where Dish will not be able to until they add more satellites.

 

[gadgtfreek]

This is a big flaw in peoples assumption about Dish II. DIRECTV will be in front of Dish next year. DIRECTV has the spot beam capacity on their new system with the last satellite going up this year to provide EVERY local channel in HD nationwide.

D*'s second sat wont be up till early 2008 according to most comments ive seen.

 

[JAG72]

D*'s second sat wont be up till early 2008 according to most comments ive seen.

You mean D*'s 4th SAT wont be launched until early 2008. Don't forget that they already have 2 of their 4 SAT's already operational with the 3rd SAT being launched last week.

 

[gadgtfreek]

You mean D*'s 4th SAT wont be launched until early 2008. Don't forget that they already have 2 of their 4 SAT's already operational with the 3rd SAT being launched last week.

Did not know I needed to spell it out. We all know they were going to launch two new stats to expand. Ive seen many claim this year, when its actually launching in early 2008 according to online articles ive read.

 

[JAG72]

Did not know I needed to spell it out. We all know they were going to launch two new stats to expand. Ive seen many claim this year, when its actually launching in early 2008 according to online articles ive read.

Spell it out? You said nothing more than I did but I stated that there were 4 SAT's in D*'s plan.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Sorry, it came out wrong. If you look at my reply, I was ONLY answering what I quoted where you stated that the other sat was going up this year, when it will prob be 2008.

When I said two, I was referring to the one that just went up and the one planned. Not worrying about the other two that are already up and running.

 

[JAG72]

Sorry, it came out wrong. If you look at my reply, I was ONLY answering what I quoted where you stated that the other sat was going up this year, when it will prob be 2008.

I never stated that the other was going up this year. I stated that their first three were already launched with the 4th in 2008. That is the same thing as you but I included the other 2 that were in their plans.

I pointed this out because of my question about how Dish will keep up with D* with only 2 SAT's.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I just realized that the quote we are discussing was not yours. I quoted mike123abc, and then you replied to that quote. I did not notice that you were not the person i quoted.

Mike stated end of the year, so my 2nd sat comment was to him. The reason I have been referring to them as 1 and 2, like I said, is just because the others are up and I was looking at it in terms of launch.

 

[digiblur]

It still points to needing a ton more spot beam capacity than they will have initially. 100 cities in HD based on how they are doing it now would take 100TPs. 25 on E8 is not going to cut it. The numbers that Charlie put out most likely are what they plan to grow the system to, not what it will initially be. He also mentioned that they have 6 or so satellites under construction. How many are going to go into this system? I do not see how they are going to have the capacity claimed by Charlie in any way shape or form by the end of the year.

I suspect it will start out at the top 50 cities in HD, 25 on spots, 25 on conus, the rest of the TPs carrying standard definition, and what HD is available. A couple of satellites like E10 being launched to the new system will give them the LiL capacity mentioned.

The big question I keep asking in my mind is... can E8 really transmit on the frequencies they need for those slots?

I just don't see this "Dish II" system starting out in the time they say.

 

[JohnH]

The big question I keep asking in my mind is... can E8 really transmit on the frequencies they need for those slots?

I just don't see this "Dish II" system starting out in the time they say.

I don't see the satellites for "DiSH II" let alone the new uplink center(s).

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Actually a lot of work is being done in Chyanne.

 

[datwell]

Actually a lot of work is being done in Chyanne.

Great!! Bring it on!!!:

Go Charlie!


---Doug

 

[MikeD-C05]

Scott, I wish you would tell us ALL that you know about the new mpeg 4 DISH service. It sounds like you know more than you are saying in your short quips about it. Makes me go HMMMMMMMM......

 

[gadgtfreek]

Unfortunately we have to wait till Jan(I think)

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

To be honest with you, I wish I knew more about it.

I do pass along the bits and pieces I hear. (And all that I get is bits and pieces)

 

[Cyclone]

A brand new HD heavy national DBS network. Why don't they just call it Voom II. That would be more accurate.

 

[mike123abc]

New uplink centers probably would not be needed. The current ones could add new equipment. The problem is that the E8/E6 combination is fairly limited which is why dish replaced (replacing) them at 110. E6 does not get along with other satellites, hence it being turned off right now. It was built before the days of spot beams and its uplink antenna covers the US, and is not regionalized. So, when Dish wants to uplink on the same frequency over from different uplink centers it does not work (that is why it had to be turned off, E10 needs to reuse the uplink frequencies over and over to cover all its spot beams).

The satellite launches are delayed as always, and it is just a hope that Dish will be able to get the 2 satellites off the ground this year (especially given the last sealaunch was unsuccessful). I have not kept track of the DIRECTV satellite situation, and if the 4th is delayed to next year, hopefully it is not too late in the year.

Dish really needs 4 satellites for the new system. They have 1. AMC-14. The E6/8 is just a temporary fix, it is a nice fix, it provides a working system for 2/3 the population in HD (talking locals), and probably more in SD. They need 2 more E10 class spot beam satellites to provide 200-250 downlinks, which would give them capacity to pretty much do every market in HD if they wanted to. And another CONUS satellite to replace E8/E6 (like they had to do at 110). E6 needs replacement because as mentioned above it does not get along with spot beam satellites, and E8 because it does not have the power needed to carry that much CONUS (designed really for 16 CONUS and 25 spot beams).

 

[gadgtfreek]

Dish really needs 4 satellites for the new system. They have 1. AMC-14.

Where does E11 come into play in this, would it not be #2? Its hopeful for October, but I just saw today where Sealaunch's return to flight is now 10-15, so itll be late October at best.

AMC14 has no December date yet.

 

[digiblur]

Where does E11 come into play in this, would it not be #2? Its hopeful for October, but I just saw today where Sealaunch's return to flight is now 10-15, so itll be late October at best.

AMC14 has no December date yet.

E11 will be used for CONUS at 110w.

 

[digiblur]

Dish really needs 4 satellites for the new system. They have 1. AMC-14. The E6/8 is just a temporary fix, it is a nice fix, it provides a working system for 2/3 the population in HD (talking locals), and probably more in SD. They need 2 more E10 class spot beam satellites to provide 200-250 downlinks, which would give them capacity to pretty much do every market in HD if they wanted to. And another CONUS satellite to replace E8/E6 (like they had to do at 110). E6 needs replacement because as mentioned above it does not get along with spot beam satellites, and E8 because it does not have the power needed to carry that much CONUS (designed really for 16 CONUS and 25 spot beams).

I hope they prove me wrong but I don't see E6 or E8 working outside of their designed frequency specs.