DISH has lost 420,000 subs so far this year

[oryan_dunn]

That's the one thing about Tivo that kept me away from it. Either pay the exorbitant monthly fee, or a lump sum lifetime fee, which is/was basically 2 years worth of fees upfront. Now there is not even a choice anymore. You pay $300-$400 for essentially a $150 box + another $150-$250 "all-in" fee. If I didn't like the service or the equipment, I'd be out all that money, or have to live with it for a year or two just to justify the cost, unless I was lucky enough to recoup some of the cost by reselling it.

Tivo has a 30 day money back guarantee if you don't like it. And yes, there is sticker shock on the all-in fee, but that's where the savings come. When I bought my car 10yrs ago, I had the option of a $300 Sirius lifetime. I took it, as a year was ~$130 or so. After 3yrs, I was ahead. I still have free Sirius in that car.

 

[osu1991]

TiVo used to be a very good service. Are not suffering the Rovi metadata disaster? TCF is filled with hate posts along the few who are TiVo apologists. Also Rovi has killed, unintentionally(?), the MRV between S3's and higher TiVo DVR's, and this has a really long list of hate postings at the TCF, with a few apologists who are always looking to pounce on anyone who dares post something not positive about TiVo. The Rovi metadata mess has caused everyone to get forced upon them channels that are not part of our DMA, and, therefore, screw-up our ONEPASS timers, of which I have been a victim. It requires a lot of time for the subscriber (me) to fix as we have to deal with about 186 legitiamte in our DMA channels when dealing with the scads of out of DMA channels. BTW, are you having to deal with the TA's messing up your channels recordings?

I have TiVo's and Minis, and while it is good, there are some features NOT available that Joeys do provide. In fact, I often get a bit exasperated when I try to do something using my Mini that I can on the Joey, but realize that I can't do it on the Mini. And the sometimes buggy DA makes the ALWAYS buggy TiVo Stream (built-in or stand alone) a complete nightmare. Problems with OOH streaming, not all content with rights to stream becaue of flags, yes, recordings will transfer to mobile device, but then when you try to play them back in a place without internet service (the whole point of transferring recordings) you are prompted to "Sign In," a bug that keeps on giving as you can NOT sign in becase you are in a location with NO internet service.

I'll say TiVo was a great product before Rovi took it over even it I ranked it at #3 behind the Hopper and the Genie, but TiVo still sharing the top tier of best DVR's. However, since Rovi took it over, it has sadly been train wreck. The best we can hope for is Rovi can fix the metadat problems, which are SEVERE, and restore MRV between S3 and higher TiVo boxes.

I am glad it is a solution that works for you, but I felt compelled to state that it is not for everyone and requires cableTV (except the Roamio OTA or first gen Bolt, for which OTA ONLY mode can work, but NOT OTA and cable at the same time) and TiVo is now a MESS until Rovi fixes the cited problems. Also, while I've made back my investment in TiVo, those plunking down the massive hundreds, or even THOUSANDS of $$$ of investment in equipment (you are paying all your "fees" up front, AND you are charged FEES by the cable cos. for your CableCards and cost of those fees do vary from barely reasonable to very high, and no access to VOD via TiVo retail boxes, for that you need a cable DVR with all its fees, too), Rovi has made it clear they do not see TiVo hardware as their future, but connected devices that depend upon the cloud, not TiVo as we know it today, and they have never provided any statement letting its retail TiVo owners know that they can depend upon their TiVo boxes working for the "forseeable future." I would not be sure those who have invested in TiVo equpment today will have enough time to break even compared to annual subscriptions because Rovi could pull the rug from out from under we retail owners at any time, but proabably not for at least a year.

However, for some people like yourself, may feel the compromise is worth the savings and are happy. In that case, I am glad you have found what you prefer. But while others may also find TiVo a better fit, there is a lot that Rovi has ruined about TiVo such that it is not the great product it was before Rovi got its hands on it, so others need to do the research carefully before paying the hundreds or even thousands to equip your home with TiVo products. Unfortunately, many decades long owners and upgraders to new boxes of TiVo's have LEFT TiVo because their TiVo's can not be counted on to record shows because of the messed up Rovi metadata--the failure of that simple, primary DVR task was the deal breaker for many before all the other messed up features can be counted. If Rovi can fix just the EPG metadata mess AND the MRV mess, I would be happy and could recommend TiVo to others for whom it would otherwise be a best solution. As it is today, I would wait and see before jumping in the TiVo pool.

Yet with 4 Tivo's I have had very little problems with 3 on Cox in Tulsa and Las Vegas and 1 on OTA in Oklahoma. I have yet to miss a recording, but yes the new Rovi data is nowhere near as good as the previous Gracenote metadata. I am now in the same boat I was in with Dish having to manage the to do list every few days to make sure a dozen repeats are not recorded during a marathon of episodes with no original air date or episode specific info.

The guide data is a minus, but no worse than what I was seeing before from Dish. Tivo still does what it is supposed to do, work as a dvr. It does have to be managed now, which is the complaint of the old tivo loyalists. Series ID's are screwed up as are categories, so wishlists do not work as well as they used to. Maybe the new Tivo UI that's coming out will work better with the Rovi data

As for sorting the channel list, there are 2000 channel numbers on Cox with every channel listed in 4 places. Took me less than 10 minutes to go thru and delete all the duplicates and I hadn't been a Cox tv customer in 20 years, so I was just going by the channel ID's. I have no problems with the Motorola Tuning Adapters. I haven't rebooted anything unless there was a software update or power outage that forced one. $1.99 cable card fee and Cox has VOD on Tivo should one choose to use it. I haven't. VOD has never been a selling point for me, having to watch forced commercials.

 

[comfortably_numb]

There will be that amount that people will refuse to pay. We are getting closer to that every year. Why pay $100 a month or more just for TV when there are so many new options.

I'm already there. I love the Hopper technology and I hated giving it up, but it became harder and harder for me to justify the fees. My 211k with EHD, Welcome Pack and HBO serves me well when combined with my Roku. $30/month. I spend the difference on better internet so I can stream live TV... like Comet, as you mentioned. My office has a subscription to Comcast Xfinity full digital cable so anything I'm missing at home I just watch there.

 

[Hall]

to check out the flex pack. My number 1 channel is NBCSN for F1 and IndyCar, and it looks like that channel is not available in the flex pack. Neither is BBC America, my wife's number 1 channel. Seems like an ok idea, but wouldn't have worked for us.

Just bad luck for you.... Think about it, there has to be channels that someone must have but simply can't be included in the Flex Pack.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Just bad luck for you.... Think about it, there has to be channels that someone must have but simply can't be included in the Flex Pack.

Well, not bad luck really as I have already canceled Dish. But it is true that will be the case until you can pick each channel individually. We all know that will never happen. I believe we're in the waning days of the golden age of TV. From here on out, things will become more and more fragmented (though many will try to have interfaces that tie it all back together), and with IP delivered content, forced commercials will become the norm.

 

[Claude Greiner]

I just left Dish this past week after 10yrs, and the primary reason was the fees.

I bought a TiVo with lifetime, along with two TiVo Minis. I have essentially the same feature set as my Hopper/Joey setup, with many more built in streaming options. If I want, I'm now able to move between my local fiber provider, cable, or OTA with no additional fees (besides the small fee for the cable card).

The guy offered me $40/mo off for a year to stay with Dish. That would have been close to what I needed to stay, but it was too late. I want to start paying off my own equipment now. It'll take about 2yrs to break even.

There are no extra fees from TiVo for the Minis. I should be able to buy a Joey and not incur an monthly fee for its use. How the heck is a Joey any different than viewing via the Dish Anywhere app? It's not, just a convenient way to get $7/mo per Joey out of me. I definitely let the guy who handled canceling my account know this was the reason I was canceling.

Also, I'm curious what other subscription businesses besides pay TV give discounts on service only to new subscribers? It makes loyal subscribers out to be fools to continually support the guys who jump ship every 2yrs. And I shouldn't have to beg daddy war bucks for a discount every few months.

The provider I switched to doesn't do contracts, deals, new subscriber discounts, installation fees, etc. Just the up front cost of programming.


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You should have NOT have done lifetime.

Pay for the service yearly. By the time a lifetime subscription will pay off, you likely would have upgraded your TiVo to the latest and greatest model.

Your looking at a 3.6 year break even if you consider $549 for lifetime vs $149 for yearly.

I purchased lifetime on 6 maybe 7 Tivos over the past 13 years.

I have never used them for more than 2 years till I wanted to upgrade to something better.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Tivo has a 30 day money back guarantee if you don't like it. And yes, there is sticker shock on the all-in fee, but that's where the savings come. When I bought my car 10yrs ago, I had the option of a $300 Sirius lifetime. I took it, as a year was ~$130 or so. After 3yrs, I was ahead. I still have free Sirius in that car.

Until the radio goes bad, and they won't transfer the subscription.

I'm done with lifetime on anything, unless they allow the lifetime to be transferred to a new unit.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Until the radio goes bad, and they won't transfer the subscription.

I'm done with lifetime on anything, unless they allow the lifetime to be transferred to a new unit.

Well, the Sirius lifetime was such a good deal they got rid of it. It was most definitely an awesome deal for me. And I'd do it again. The radio will likely last at least 3yrs, and mine is going on 11, so I've saved thousands of dollars.


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[oryan_dunn]

You should have NOT have done lifetime.

Pay for the service yearly. By the time a lifetime subscription will pay off, you likely would have upgraded your TiVo to the latest and greatest model.

Your looking at a 3.6 year break even if you consider $549 for lifetime vs $149 for yearly.

I purchased lifetime on 6 maybe 7 Tivos over the past 13 years.

I have never used them for more than 2 years till I wanted to upgrade to something better.

I absolutely should have done lifetime. I just got the bolt which is fast and supports 4K, and I have no intention of upgrading to 4K. I had the H1 for 4yrs and would have kept it another 4yrs if I could have got rid of the Joey fees.

If your the type that has to have the lasted tech all the time, then renting is the best option for you.

Also, I got my lifetime for $350 during the TiVo thanksgiving sale.


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[comfortably_numb]

Well, the Sirius lifetime was such a good deal they got rid of it. It was most definitely an awesome deal for me. And I'd do it again. The radio will likely last at least 3yrs, and mine is going on 11, so I've saved thousands of dollars.


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....or they're afraid they'll get sued if they go out of business and aren't around for a "lifetime." Sirius has been sued before due to deceptive pricing and I'd venture a guess that had something to do with it


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[dare2be]

I can't couldn't justify paying that much in fees for OTA guide only, no matter how long that cost is spread out...or having to use my crappy cable company and all their outages.

 

[Yespage]

Tivo has a 30 day money back guarantee if you don't like it. And yes, there is sticker shock on the all-in fee, but that's where the savings come. When I bought my car 10yrs ago, I had the option of a $300 Sirius lifetime. I took it, as a year was ~$130 or so. After 3yrs, I was ahead. I still have free Sirius in that car.

Actually, you were never ahead unless you were going to pay for Sirius for 10 yrs otherwise. You go ahead when you realize savings you would have otherwise have had to spent, like gasoline in high mileage car or water for a high efficiency washer.

 

[Hall]

....or they're afraid they'll get sued if they go out of business and aren't around for a "lifetime."

Simple, any contract or agreement will cover the condition that "lifetime" simply isn't applicable if the company goes away. Besides, companies always come up with creative definitions of "lifetime". They have tied it to the lifetime of a piece of equipment, what they consider an 'acceptable' lifetime, and so on.

Sirius has been sued before...

If Sirius closes up, who is there to sue ?

 

[Bruno]

I'm done with lifetime on anything, unless they allow the lifetime to be transferred to a new unit.

Well how many CARS have you transferred your Lifetime Sirius subscription too...

 

[Mochuf]

You should have NOT have done lifetime.

Pay for the service yearly. By the time a lifetime subscription will pay off, you likely would have upgraded your TiVo to the latest and greatest model.

Your looking at a 3.6 year break even if you consider $549 for lifetime vs $149 for yearly.

I purchased lifetime on 6 maybe 7 Tivos over the past 13 years.

I have never used them for more than 2 years till I wanted to upgrade to something better.

My Tivo's are 13 yrs old (Series 2), 9 years old (Tivo HD) and 8/6 years old (2 Premieres). They all work great and I have no problems with them. Sure they're not as fast as the current models, but they're still a lot better than most cable dvr's or cheaper ota dvr's (Channel Master dvr's or Magnavox dvd recorders). And I can transfer all non-premium channel (like HBO or Starz) recordings to my HTPC. Try doing that with a cable/satellite dvr. Lifetime is great and allows you to get some money back if you choose to sell for newer tech. An old Tivo without lifetime is virtually worthless.

 

[rodder]

can you use Tivo with dish if so do you still have to pay the dvr fee.

 

[dare2be]

no, and N/A

I believe DTV still does

 

[navychop]

Basically, the Joey fee. There should be no extra fee to use it (for an owned box), since it's just mirroring what is showing on the Hopper. With my Tivo, there are no extra fees for the Tivo Mini(s).

Just to clarify- the Joey has independent viewing. Channel A can be viewed on the Hopper while channel B is being viewed on the Joey. They don't watch the same thing at the same time.

 

[Ronnie-]

no, and N/A

I believe DTV still does

Directv may still offer a tivo option, I am not sure, but it is not the same as the tivo box you can buy. You are limited to the HR that they offer with tivo software.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Just to clarify- the Joey has independent viewing. Channel A can be viewed on the Hopper while channel B is being viewed on the Joey. They don't watch the same thing at the same time.

I consider it a mirroring device because the Joey is a paperweight without a Hopper. All tuners, shows, and functionality come from the Hopper. The Joey is just showing me something that's on the Hopper.


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