CNBC reports that Tivo likely to win suit

[bacchus101]

If tivo wins/settlement/etc, there is no way DISH is going to allow their DVRs to be turned off, or at least not the majority of them. They will find a way in the 11th hour to get a deal in place to allow the DVRs to continue working. DISH may be stubborn, but they wouldn't risk sending droves of their customers to DirecTV or Cable

Just like there was no way that Dish would allow its customers to lose Distance Networks? We still remember how that went down, right?

It could be quite possible that Dish could release a new update that works around the patent violations.

I was under the impression that Dish has already made the changes to their software. Anyone remember when all the 5xx series started crashing everyday? I was told then (last January) it was because of the "Tivo patent case" and that I should just move to a 625 (on the house) as the "point release" was actually a code rewrite and problems would most likely persist for quite some time until they worked past some fundamental issues.

 

[earlswireless]

I see where Tivo won their lawsuit but it appears to be different than what is listed here. What I saw in the news said that the court upheld the "patent" of Tivo for recording one show while watching another.

The last few days, my 622 will not record one show while watching another. Looks like Dish has sent us update software to stop that feature!!!!

 

[NoWhrMn]

That is funny. As long as I have had a VCR I have been able to watch one show while recording another. Perhaps the VCR people should sue Tivo.

 

[OoTLink]

Yeah NoWhrMn, that's throwing me for a loop too. If you had the VCR hooked up throw coax, you could hit a TV/VCR button and bam, watching a show while recording! LOL.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Just like there was no way that Dish would allow its customers to lose Distance Networks? We still remember how that went down, right?

Your only 1/2 correct. YES, DISH Network lost Distants, but at the same time they where able to provide a majority of those customers with their local network programming. The ones who they could not offer any local network programming, went to All American Direct.

The Other remaining 30,000 who could not get locals or qualify for all american direct, I believe got a FREE Off Air Antenna.

The only customers crying and making a stink over this whole thing was the customers who qualified for locals, but preferred the distant networks so they could time shift

 

[Claude Greiner]

If tivo wins/settlement/etc, there is no way DISH is going to allow their DVRs to be turned off, or at least not the majority of them. They will find a way in the 11th hour to get a deal in place to allow the DVRs to continue working. DISH may be stubborn, but they wouldn't risk sending droves of their customers to DirecTV or Cable (I can see the diretv ads now -- "the leader in HD capacity and we have DVRs that won't get turned off"). That being said I'm still clinging to my ultimate dream of Dish and Tivo settling with the Tivo UI being ported to DISH DVRs.

Exactly, DISH will never shut down their DVR's!

Consider this, DISH spends 250 million once or twice per year to launch a new satellite, do you think they are really concerned about a 90 million dollar judgement in a lawsuit?

How many times has DISH Lost in court, and how many times have you actually seen charlie pay without giving up a fight

 

[kluken]

This is just liek the RIM Blackberry case, once RIM lost all appeals and was about to be forced to shut down they strike a deal, I assuem same happens here. Dish knows if DVRs get shut off they loose a lot of business. Besides I thought the case was not DVR in general, but a specific way they did it and I thought Dish made code changes that got them around the infringement?

 

[lakebum431]

I see where Tivo won their lawsuit but it appears to be different than what is listed here. What I saw in the news said that the court upheld the "patent" of Tivo for recording one show while watching another.

The last few days, my 622 will not record one show while watching another. Looks like Dish has sent us update software to stop that feature!!!!

No they didn't

 

[yaz96]

Here's a report from someone in the courtroom today.

TiVo vs. EchoStar: Boredom in the Courtroom - Seeking Alpha

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If dish were to lose the case, nothing would change on the 622/722.

Some older receivers would have some changes made to the software. But they would still be DVR's and function much like they do now.

 

[Hall]

If dish were to lose the case, nothing would change on the 622/722.

Why are they unaffected ?

 

[JohnL]

Just like there was no way that Dish would allow its customers to lose Distance Networks? We still remember how that went down, right?

Bacchus,

Actually what happened was that Dish had a settlement on the table, WITH THE NAB, all principles of the NAB agreed to sign the agreement EXCEPT AFFILIATES owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Since Murdoch refused to sign the agreement the settlement failed, considering that DirecTV, owned by Murdoch, is the only other Platform to deliver Out of Market Network signals, Murdoch used his vertically integrated ownership stake in DirecTV, Affiliated Stations, and FOX Networks, to kill the deal.

When the government ok'd the deal for Murdoch to acquire DirecTV, IN THE FIRST PLACE, one of the conditions was that he could NOT use his ownership stake in DirecTV, his Affiliated Stations and FOX Networks to unfairly create a monopoly or to withhold services that directly competed with DirecTV.

Guess what Dish Network and their out of market SUBSCRIBERS got screwed in the process. Did the current administration do or say anything, of course not, Murdoch does the bidding of the Republican Administration.

John

 

[Fitzie]

Bacchus,

Actually what happened was that Dish had a settlement on the table, WITH THE NAB, all principles of the NAB agreed to sign the agreement EXCEPT AFFILIATES owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Since Murdoch refused to sign the agreement the settlement failed, considering that DirecTV, owned by Murdoch, is the only other Platform to deliver Out of Market Network signals, Murdoch used his vertically integrated ownership stake in DirecTV, Affiliated Stations, and FOX Networks, to kill the deal.

When the government ok'd the deal for Murdoch to acquire DirecTV, IN THE FIRST PLACE, one of the conditions was that he could NOT use his ownership stake in DirecTV, his Affiliated Stations and FOX Networks to unfairly create a monopoly or to withhold services that directly competed with DirecTV.

Guess what Dish Network and their out of market SUBSCRIBERS got screwed in the process. Did the current administration do or say anything, of course not, Murdoch does the bidding of the Republican Administration.

John

JohnL is certainly accurate in his analysis of the situation, since Murdoch used his position as Fox Network owner to scotch a settlement that would have benefited the DirecTV competitor. This is the most blatant example of monopoly based abuse of power I have seen in many years. The real mistake was in letting Murdoch get his hands on DirecTV to start with since it also gave him the power not only to focus the cold hose on Dish but also the power to blast ABC, CBS, and NBC (Fox Network direct competitors) who would have benefited from the settlement.

Maybe the situation will change with Liberty Media and John Malone in charge of DirecTV, but I guess it's better not to hold my breath. (I'm not sure that I would agree that Murdoch does the bidding of the Republican Administration--I think it's just that Republicans are in the majority on the FCC.)

Regards,
Fitzie

 

[Fitzie]

P.S.: in re the preceding, please advise me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,
Fitzie

 

[mdwatt]

Here's what I don't understand. The folks at Echostar aren't complete idiots. They would have to know that if they created something that infringed on a patent that someone, somewhere would find out and call them on it. So at some point they would have to conclude that the direction they were going was legal. All of this stuff is researched in the patent department. After R&D comes up with a product or feature, they submit it to the patent office to begin the patent process. If this feature had already been included in TiVo units, then the patent office should have declined the patent as being already in existence. So if Tivo had already come up with the dual-record feature before Echostar, then who dropped the ball? Echostar, the patent office, Tivo? To me it sounds like a bunch of corporate BS and finger pointing. DirecTV and TiVo have been in bed together since TiVO was invented. I smell BS on this one. If there's something about this I'm missing, feel free to let me know.

 

[bacchus101]

The only customers crying and making a stink over this whole thing was the customers who qualified for locals, but preferred the distant networks so they could time shift.

...and the ones that did not want to pay more for inferior quality channels from All American Direct.

I "lived" on the outskirts of a DMA that only has one OTA station that I could get if I erected a CN Tower mock up (2/3 scale) in my backyard.....so I had to "move to Burger King" 200 miles south when this all went down to get the locals that my neighbors get on cable.

All fixed now, I guess - other then the fact that now I live in constant fear of something going wrong with one of my DVR's and having to "move" everything back around again to get it fixed, and then move back for the 17th time, if I am not audited straight over to D*.

Guess what Dish Network and their out of market SUBSCRIBERS got screwed in the process. Did the current administration do or say anything, of course not, Murdoch does the bidding of the Republican Administration.

My Republican Senator, Olympia Snowe sent me this great letter about the bill she was co-sponsoring to get this problem taken care of for people in remote areas with no access to OTA Networks. That was 10 months ago.....been REAL quiet ever since......

 

[digitalartifact]

I see this ending up like the TV guide... except we will probably not be seeing the TIVO channel...

If TIVO was smart... they would sell now. I really do not see a future for them with IPTV as most computers could time shift before TIVO... (Not to mention IPTV will be able to pump out shows from there servers on demand. So why TIVO/DVR/Record it when you can simply Request it???)

Which brings me to the last part... If content providers were smart... (big IF i know)... Instead of being able to purchase individual channels we would be able to purchase content... Build our own customized content streams... and stack them into a channel...

'digitalartifact channel #1'
Survivor man
Survivor
ER
Star Trek
... (what ever floats your boat in TV watching)

Guess when we do reach this point... TIVO's/DVR's/VCR's/DVD Recorders.. will become this generations record players [and I do believe it will be in this generation]

 

[Lord Darth Vader]

x2

Just like the Blackberry/RIM lawsuit...you won't see any devices losing their functionality. That would drive a company out of business. It will all come down to $$$ that Dish will have to pay and future developments of receivers.

Then let's hope the same thing applies to Vonage, because the two cases are very similar--even the appeal is being heard by the same appellate court.

 

[langlin]

Actually both of them are wrong, I was the one that came up with the idea of "time shifting" programs in the early 1960's. My Idea was to use vcr's to record all the programs that you did not like and automaticlly play them back in the middle of the night while you were asleep so you didn't have to watch them. I was going to get rich but for some unknown it didn't catch on, guess I was ahead of my time.

 

[jacmyoung]

Bacchus,

Actually what happened was that Dish had a settlement on the table, WITH THE NAB, all principles of the NAB agreed to sign the agreement EXCEPT AFFILIATES owned by Rupert Murdoch.

Since Murdoch refused to sign the agreement the settlement failed, considering that DirecTV, owned by Murdoch, is the only other Platform to deliver Out of Market Network signals, Murdoch used his vertically integrated ownership stake in DirecTV, Affiliated Stations, and FOX Networks, to kill the deal.

When the government ok'd the deal for Murdoch to acquire DirecTV, IN THE FIRST PLACE, one of the conditions was that he could NOT use his ownership stake in DirecTV, his Affiliated Stations and FOX Networks to unfairly create a monopoly or to withhold services that directly competed with DirecTV.

Guess what Dish Network and their out of market SUBSCRIBERS got screwed in the process. Did the current administration do or say anything, of course not, Murdoch does the bidding of the Republican Administration.

John

While what John said is true, my understanding was the judge had no choice but ban distants on E*, even if all the parties had agreed to settle, because somehow the law put in place had a very rigid requirement how a provider should be penalized in that situation, no settlement allowed.

Of course E* could lobby to change that particular aspect of the law but chose not to, probably because it was not worth the effort. They did not lose many subs, and did not have to shell out that 70 million in the settlement after all.