You didn't actually mean that, did you?...someone start a Blu-ray should just crawl up in a hole and die thread
This forum would have to be renamed "Format Hell: HD vs. BD"...
Diogen.
Blog: HD DVD: Fight or Quit (Preferably Quit)
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This forum would have to be renamed "Format Hell: HD vs. BD"...
Diogen.
Just the heat of the momentYou didn't actually mean that, did you?
This forum would have to be renamed "Format Hell: HD vs. BD"...
Diogen.
although this thread title is almost as bad lol... the Format Pit
There are pluses and minuses to both formats and players. I have both a PS3 and HDDVD ad on so I am not a fanboy for either. The PS3 has in my opinion the dumbest omission in design with no IR reader built in. For a device being touted as a great BD player it should work with our universal remotes. Yes, I know you can by Sonys Bluetooth remote but it should respond to IR, just plain stupid. The audio limitations on the HDDVD add on as well as ommission of HDMI on the original 360 rank right up there as well. They both, however provide a great picture on my 50" DLP set!
The bottom line is the format war is hurting the HD movement, As already stated this is currently a niche market with domination by standard DVD and this will continue until there is one HD format with better and consitant marketing. Most people are not like the technophiles, myself included, here that know in depth specs about technological devices. Most people just want to plug the thing in and sit back and watch. For HD to be successfull, HD must be unified, marketed well, priced competively and seen as worth it to J6P!
The bottom line is the format war is hurting the HD movement, As already stated this is currently a niche market with domination by standard DVD and this will continue until there is one HD format with better and consitant marketing. Most people are not like the technophiles, myself included, here that know in depth specs about technological devices. Most people just want to plug the thing in and sit back and watch. For HD to be successfull, HD must be unified, marketed well, priced competively and seen as worth it to J6P!
I think you would have to admitt that the format war, no matter how ugly, had very positive influence at least in one department - price. Price by itself will never make or break a format, but if the players remained $500-1000, there would never be a chance for them to threaten DVD's "monopoly".
Exactly!
I don't think this has happened yet and not because of the war, wrong marketting, confusing specs, stupid advertising, etc.
Time is needed.
It took the TV manufacturers the best part of 5 years to convince J6P that he needs a new hidef TV. And I believe the sexy form factor and increased TV sizes played a much bigger role in this decision than the quality of the picture. Hence, many people (close to 50% by some research less than a year ago) to this day believe DVDs are hidef on HDTV. And even some installers use composite/S-video to run video to HDTV.
Now they have to be convinced that
- they were wrong in their beliefs
- they actually need different players and movies to take full advantage of their HDTV
- if they buy one now, it might be obsolete in 1-2 years.
In other words, you have to work hard on setting up, recognizing and enjoying hidef material.
You have to spend some non-trivial amounts of money. And might have to do it again in 1-2 years if you pick the wrong format.
Whether J6P is contemplating jumping into this HD/BD mess or not - these simple facts will keep him on the sidelines.
The day will come and it will catch his fancy, just like HDTVs did. But I think it will take a while. And by then it might not be HD/BD that J6P will pick.
Diogen.
Isnt it already? "HD DVD/BD war zone"???You didn't actually mean that, did you?
This forum would have to be renamed "Format Hell: HD vs. BD"...
Diogen.
Two big features appeal to me from the HD DVD spec.... The combo disk format that lets it work in my HD DVD player as well as a standard DVD player (so my Dad can borrow it or my kids can watch it in the car).
Secondly, the lack of region coding makes sure that I can buy discs anywhere and have them work. Including FOX titles from Europe (many are available from Canal Plus....)
Secondly, the lack of region coding makes sure that I can buy discs anywhere and have them work. Including FOX titles from Europe (many are available from Canal Plus....)
I run across an interesting comment on AVS made by an industry insider (John Dawson from ARCAM):
Just reiterates the point that there is a bumpy road ahead of HD/BD acceptance by "wider DVD audience".
Diogen.
EDIT: I was more than once rebutted (on different forums) for saying European 576/50i (double-scanned to 100 Hz) is noticable better than North American 480/60i on an average TV with average SD resolution. I was glad to learn that John Dawson is of the same opinion.
I run across an interesting comment on AVS made by an industry insider (John Dawson from ARCAM):
Just reiterates the point that there is a bumpy road ahead of HD/BD acceptance by "wider DVD audience".
Diogen.
EDIT: I was more than once rebutted (on different forums) for saying European 576/50i (double-scanned to 100 Hz) is noticable better than North American 480/60i on an average TV with average SD resolution. I was glad to learn that John Dawson is of the same opinion.
This is interesting, and doesn't surprise me in the least. People have a LOT of money invested in DVD. I think about the closet where I store DVDs; must have 200 of them, accumulated over a decade.
Hmmm- Let's say it COULD be noticeably better. My experience in the UK and Italy has been that it's generally wasted on rather small screens, and curved ones at that. Offhand I don't recall a single Trinitron or other "flat" screen CRT.
Moving to HDTV? Well, in the U.S., I suspect the move will be faster. We like things bigger, such as TV screens. These bigger screens are almost all HD now. As people replace their TVs going forward, they will have digital TVs capable of at least receiving HD signals. As more and more programs are offered in HD, folks will want to see them at their best, even if only on a 42" TV. Prices are still high, but coming down. I believe there is a real chance that in another 10 or 15 years, we might see TVs again as (relatively) cheap as the last batch of SD CRTs were.
As far as market penetration goes, for high def players: 5% penetration by the end of 2009 is probably pretty good. Even if we are at around 10% of households so equipped, 5 years from now, it's probably enough. If we consolidate down to a single format within a year or so, we might see even faster growth. Frankly, I suspect there are three things that will increase high def player adoption:
1) Time. Interest will grow after the Feb 2009 digital transition.
2) Consolidation on a single high def format, removing uncertainties.
3) A wide variety of high def players selling for less than $200. Might coincide with Feb 2009.
I suspect that when those three things happen, we will see rapid growth. 2009 could be a banner year, maybe even hitting that 10% penetration figure. High def players don't have to grow as fast as DVD players or VCRs to be a success. We'll get there. And 5% or 10% of the market, considering it's the high dollar, high profit end, can be sufficient incentive to see both new and old titles released in high def. Just look at how much is to be released this year.
Moving to HDTV? Well, in the U.S., I suspect the move will be faster. We like things bigger, such as TV screens. These bigger screens are almost all HD now. As people replace their TVs going forward, they will have digital TVs capable of at least receiving HD signals. As more and more programs are offered in HD, folks will want to see them at their best, even if only on a 42" TV. Prices are still high, but coming down. I believe there is a real chance that in another 10 or 15 years, we might see TVs again as (relatively) cheap as the last batch of SD CRTs were.
As far as market penetration goes, for high def players: 5% penetration by the end of 2009 is probably pretty good. Even if we are at around 10% of households so equipped, 5 years from now, it's probably enough. If we consolidate down to a single format within a year or so, we might see even faster growth. Frankly, I suspect there are three things that will increase high def player adoption:
1) Time. Interest will grow after the Feb 2009 digital transition.
2) Consolidation on a single high def format, removing uncertainties.
3) A wide variety of high def players selling for less than $200. Might coincide with Feb 2009.
I suspect that when those three things happen, we will see rapid growth. 2009 could be a banner year, maybe even hitting that 10% penetration figure. High def players don't have to grow as fast as DVD players or VCRs to be a success. We'll get there. And 5% or 10% of the market, considering it's the high dollar, high profit end, can be sufficient incentive to see both new and old titles released in high def. Just look at how much is to be released this year.
I was more than once rebutted (on different forums) for saying European 576/50i (double-scanned to 100 Hz) is noticable better than North American 480/60i on an average TV with average SD resolution. I was glad to learn that John Dawson is of the same opinion.
I don't see how it's even a debatable topic in regards to picture quality (audio is a different story). I'm not even talking about the resolution, but simply the lack of judder on film material on PAL sets makes a huge difference.
I agree with this point. If you have kids with a car or van or truck that has a dvd player in it, the combo disk format is a great feature. I have brought Happy Feet on vacation with me and I can also watch it at home in HD. I remember there was a thread about people not liking the combo format. The main reason was that the combo format was driving up the price of the disk. I feel it is worth the extra cash for the combo. The main reason I bought into HD DVD was because of the price. $199 for the add on was a deal at the time.
That's good point.
But I was talking more about comparable programming, like CNN.
Diogen.
The BB and CC near me have about 12 to 20 feet of shelf space for BD and HDDVD, surrounded by about 700 to 1200 feet of DVD shelf space. So maybe 1 to 2.5% of shelf is devoted to HD. Could it be that a 9.99 movie in DVD costing 29.99 in HD is slowing down the penetration? I received 3 free HDDVD movies and bought two additional movies six months ago. None since. DVD upscaling is great. Seems like the first marketing genius at either format that LOWERS the price of their disks could really win the war.
P.S. To Sony and Toshiba, resume requests will be accepted anytime! Would love to help you all out. Knuckleheads.....
P.S. To Sony and Toshiba, resume requests will be accepted anytime! Would love to help you all out. Knuckleheads.....
I have no doubts.
But I don't think that's only what's needed.
First, the average consumer has to see the advantage (difference in quality).
Second, he/she will start paying attention to prices.
Third, if the price is right, start thinking about buying.
At this point, if the war is still going on, the decision would have to be made what format to get.
After that we could start drawing analogies with DVDs in 1997.
We haven't made the first step yet.
Only 50/30% of PS3/360 owners know that the console supports hidef! And that is the most interested demographic.
If the war ends within 1 year, it won't be the consumer that will decide that, IMHO.
Diogen.
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