Barry Bonds

[brainiac]

The investigators have the records. Proof enough for me. Bonds was a freaking steriod pharmacists dream.

"According to a review of Bonds' grand jury testimony, some documents were in folders marked with Bonds' name or his initials. Investigators concluded that the documents contained evidence that Barry Bonds had been using steroids as early as the 2000 season. Prosecutors asked Bonds about the documents at the grand jury.

As the prosecutors described them, some documents reflect payments for drugs for Bonds. They included $1,500 for two boxes of human growth hormone; $450 for a bottle of the injectable steroid Depotestosterone; $100 for 100 pills of clomiphene, also known as Clomid, a female fertility drug that some BALCO athletes were supplied to mask their use of banned drugs; and $200 for "the cream" and "the clear," BALCO's designer steroids.


Other entries reflected what prosecutors believed was Bonds' drug cycle: for February 2002, for example, a calendar showed alternating days of cream, clear and growth hormone followed by "Clow," which investigators took to be a reference to Clomid, according to Bonds' testimony.

Another document labeled with Bonds initials, "BLB 2003," listed cities where the Giants played in 2003, with notations for the use of growth hormone, clear, cream and the diabetes drug insulin, which has muscle-building effects, on specific days. Other documents associated with Bonds referred to the steroid trenbolone and to steroid pills known as "Mexican beans."


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/16/BONDS.TMP

Until this "evidence" is presented in openly in court and not leaked to some newspaper, you still don't have proof. I guess you didn't notice that no prosecutor or investigator was actually quoted. This is a newspaper account of leaked, supposedly accurate, testimony. The reporters were not actually there. The fact remains that he hasn't admitted anything and they haven't proven anything. No matter how long and how loud you shout it, nothing has been proven yet. You know as well as I do, that if they had proven that he had taken steroids, or proven that he lied, they would have already have taken action. You say it's proof enough for you - well you've already demonstrated that you don't know the difference between fact and speculation, so that's no surprise. Once again, what you believe and what's been proven are two different things. Oh, by the way, I wasn't the only one who noticed that you called the man an ape. I know what your agenda is, jackass.

 

[HCI]

Prove the babe was drinking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth
Growing problems

Despite his success on the field, Ruth had started to become a headache for the Red Sox. In July 1918, Ruth ignored a sign from manager Ed Barrow during an at bat that led to a heated verbal spat when Ruth reached the dugout. Barrow fined Ruth $500 when Ruth threatened to punch him in the nose. Ruth threw a tantrum and quit the team for a few days, and it was reported he had signed a new contract with the Chester Shipyards, a Pennsylvania-based pro team. It was also during the 1918 season that he started to refuse his pitching turns in the starting rotation, often citing injuries that Barrow would question. By this time, Ruth considered himself an everyday outfielder and had no more desire to pitch. "I'll win more games playing everyday in the outfield than I will pitching every fourth day," Ruth remarked. Ruth had the leverage of knowing he had become baseball's biggest star, and before the 1919 season, he was blunt with the Red Sox—he wanted to play every day and not pitch at all. Initially, Barrow and the Red Sox acquiesced, but injuries to the pitching staff forced a balking Ruth back into the rotation for spot starts.

There were also Ruth's off-the-field indiscretions. His late nights of partying and boozing were further sources of irritation to the franchise, and he had numerous fights with Barrow over curfew violations. Eventually Ruth was forced to write Barrow notes on what time he came in each night (notes Barrow never verified). He signed a 3-year contract in 1919 for $10,000 a year, but at the end of the season, he demanded $20,000 a year and threatened to sit out the 1920 season if he did not receive a new contract. Ruth was certainly worth the price, but he also needed more money to finance what he spent on fast automobiles, fine clothes, and entertaining his many women "friends." Red Sox owner Harry Frazee commented, "If Ruth doesn't want to work for the Red Sox, we can work out an advantageous trade." To some people, Ruth had become an enfant terrible, although after his 1919 season, it seemed almost inconceivable that anyone would seriously recommend trading him.


http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016451.html
Ruth belonged to the Golden Age of Sport. Of all the names that dominated the roaring twenties -- Red Grange, Jack Dempsey, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Man o' War -- none was bigger than Babe. Known for devouring the most hot dogs to drinking the most beers to bedding the most women, he possessed an insatiable appetite for life.

 

[Peter Parker]

It looks like somebody need to eat crow on the subject of Lance Armstrong and possibly failing a drug test and that person is me. I was quite incorrect.

 

[BobMurdoch]

For years, taxpayers used their kids to shelter taxable income along with a bunch of other tax shelters. The government reacted to shrink or eliminate the loopholes.

In the 70's steroids were rampant in football. The NFL closed the loopholes there with strict penalties for those who got caught. No one made any mention of striking statistical achievements from the record books, they just set the new rules and moved forward.

Since the MLB players union is uncomfortably strong, they were able to stonewall efforts to eliminate it in baseball, but Congressional threats finally made them cave as well. Baseball should follow the NFL's example andsimply move on. No asterisks, no bans for past offenses, etc. MLB benefited from the McGwire/Sosa Home Run Chase which now seems tainted by steroids. They didn't care. It brought the fans back to the game they had deserted due to the strike.

Bonds was a jerk to the media for years and he is being paid back with his vilification. Some are saying that it is a race issue that he is being focused on. Whatever. Baseball's Hall of Fame is filled with individuals with abhorrent behavior off the field. To steal from Robert Wuhl, fact has become usurped by legend. Therefore, people have forgotten the facts and just printed the legends.

Giants fans will celebrate each home run. Of course they will, each home run ball is a winning lottery ticket to help put their kids through college. And that's NOT a bad thing to me. Clemens making $3.7 million a MONTH, baseball owners making millions (look at the Marlins owner who spends only 15 MILLION on his payroll, when he makes twice that from revenue sharing, regardless of ticket/stadium revenue), baseball players like Mo Vaughn from the Mets recently who picked up massive paychecks for riding the pine for the entire length of their contract. The fans should get their crack at the trough as well....

Bottom line, they should celebrate his achievements. He is entering OJ land where everyone will jeer him wherever he goes. Leave him be. Congress may yet get another crack at him. But his numbers are staggering (walks in a season, slugging percentage, etc.). Celebrate his achievements, but make sure that future players can't go the same steroid route. End of rant.

 

[Brewer4]

It looks like somebody need to eat crow on the subject of Lance Armstrong and possibly failing a drug test and that person is me. I was quite incorrect.

Yep.

UCI report clears Armstrong
By The Associated Press
This report filed May 31, 2006
Dutch investigators cleared Lance Armstrong of doping in the 1999 Tour de France on Wednesday, and blamed anti-doping authorities for misconduct in dealing with the American cyclist.

A 132-page report recommended convening a tribunal to discuss possible legal and ethical violations by the World Anti-Doping Agency and to consider "appropriate sanctions to remedy the violations."

The French sports daily L'Equipe reported in August that six of Armstrong's urine samples from 1999, when he won the first of his record seven-straight Tour titles, came back positive for the endurance-boosting hormone EPO when they were retested in 2004.

Armstrong has repeatedly denied using banned substances.

The International Cycling Union appointed Dutch lawyer Emile Vrijman last October to investigate the handling of urine tests from the 1999 Tour by the French national anti-doping laboratory, known by its French acronym LNDD.(Read the FULL REPORT)

Vrijman said Wednesday his report "exonerates Lance Armstrong completely with respect to alleged use of doping in the 1999 Tour de France."

The report also said the UCI had not damaged Armstrong by releasing doping control forms to the French newspaper.

The report said WADA and the LNDD may have "behaved in ways that are completely inconsistent with the rules and regulations of international anti-doping control testing," and may also have been against the law.

Vrijman, who headed the Dutch anti-doping agency for 10 years and later defended athletes accused of doping, worked on the report with Adriaan van der Veen, a scientist with the Dutch Metrology Laboratory.

EPO, or erythropoietin, is a synthetic hormone that boosts the oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood.

Testing for EPO at the Tour de France only began in 2001.

Armstrong had challenged the validity of testing samples frozen for six years, and how they were handled.

Vrijman said a further investigation was needed regarding the leaking of the results to the French paper.

He said a tribunal should be created to "provide a fair hearing" to the people and organizations suspected of misconduct and to decide on sanctions if warranted.

World Anti-Doping Agency chief Dick Pound accused former ICU president Hein Verbruggen of leaking documents about the alleged positive tests to a reporter from L'Equipe. Pound also questioned the union's willingness to fully investigate the allegations.

The anti-doping lab at Châtenay-Malabry has been accused of violating confidentiality regulations.

Mario Zorzoli, the doctor who gave copies of Armstrong's doping control forms to L'Equipe, was suspended by the UCI for one month earlier this year. He has since been reinstated.

The full report was sent to the UCI, the LNDD, the French sports ministry, WADA and Armstrong's lawyer. The International Olympic Committee also had requested a copy.

The accusations against Armstrong raised questions about how frozen samples, routinely held for eight years, should be used.

IOC president Jacques Rogge has said he was willing to have urine samples checked retroactively, but with clear procedures that would have to be set up by WADA.(Read the FULL REPORT)

http://velonews.com/news/fea/9932.0.html

 

[Peter Parker]

I already ate one helping of crow. If you really want me to eat the second I will. Great timing on releasing that report BTW!

 

[Brewer4]

I already ate one helping of crow. If you really want me to eat the second I will. Great timing on releasing that report BTW!

Nah. You are actually a man for admitting one time. No need to turn you into a begging dog. Actually most folks cant admit to anything. Kudos.

 

[vurbano]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_Ruth

There were also Ruth's off-the-field indiscretions. His late nights of partying and boozing were further sources of irritation to the franchise,.....


http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00016451.html
Ruth belonged to the Golden Age of Sport. Of all the names that dominated the roaring twenties -- Red Grange, Jack Dempsey, Bobby Jones, Bill Tilden, Man o' War -- none was bigger than Babe. Known for devouring the most hot dogs to drinking the most beers to bedding the most women, he possessed an insatiable appetite for life.

youve proven nothing. Wheres the drug test? you convict the Babe while worshipping the great steriod Ape? You must be insane.There are written records of Bonds' drug purchases in the previous article I posted and you come back with some tales from Wikipedia????

 

[vurbano]

Maybe now Barry Bonds will finally leave us all alone <!--/END PHONE HEADLINE-->
an Associated Press report 05/30/06
<FONT face=verdana color=#000000 size=1>
<!--PHONE IGNORE--><!--IMAGES AND LINKS BOX<table width="240" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="2" align="right"><tr><td bgcolor="#a50800" valign="top" align="center">

</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">It was this fuel barge that scraped the bridge.</td></tr></table><!-- END IMAGE AND LINKS BOX--><!--/END PHONE IGNORE--><!--PHONE STORY-->
Our long national nightmare is over.

Finally, we have a reason to thank Barry Bonds.

With one swing of the bat Sunday on a 90 mph fastball from Byung-Hyun Kim, Bonds accomplished much more than just passing Babe Ruth on the all-time home run list.

He made the fans in San Francisco as happy as they can be during a year when they are constantly reminded about the earthquake that destroyed the city a century ago. He allowed baseball to escape yet another embarrassing moment from its Incredible Hulk era by hitting it on the final game of a homestand.

And he gave everyone who has wasted hours in line waiting for a beer at the ballpark a reason to keep going back.
Hard to tell who was happier with No. 715 -- Bonds or the guy who went to get a couple of beers during his historic at-bat and wound up with not only a pricey baseball but a potential future TV commercial if the folks at Budweiser or Coors are on the, er, ball.

Not a bad day all around. But the best is yet to come.

Because now America doesn't have to waste a Memorial Day better suited to other things worrying, or even thinking, about Barry Bonds. Now baseball fans can get on with what figures to be an intriguing season without wondering what really makes the players go.

And maybe now, Bonds will finally leave us alone.
Yea, that's right. Leave us alone.

You see, we're as tired of him as he is of us. Tired of comparing him to the Babe, tired of trying to figure out how many home runs he might have hit without any help.

Tired of just about everything that has to do with a moment that even Major League Baseball can't bring itself to celebrate.

Then again, it's hard to celebrate a man at the same time you're investigating him for allegedly using steroids.
Maybe Bud Selig will send a note or something.

"Any time you have an accomplishment, they normally congratulate you and send you a telegram or letter," Bonds said.
The Giants did a little celebrating of their own for their slugger. They unfurled two banners from light towers in center field, one with Bonds and 715 and the other with Hank Aaron at 755. And Bonds had a little champagne with his teammates in the locker room afterward.

Selig was conspicuous by what he didn't say, but congratulations came from afar from other players who didn't question why, at a time when his muscles and skills were supposed to be fading, Bonds was able to hit 258 of his 715 home runs between the ages of 35 and 40.

"He's the greatest, in my era, home run hitter I have ever seen," Braves pitcher John Smoltz said.
The code of ethics in baseball, of course, is never to question your fellow player. And, on this day, maybe it was best to let Bonds have his day.

It was just last week, after all, that Boston pitcher David Wells tried to ruin the party over No. 714 when he said Bonds was juiced when he hit some of his home runs off him. Wells also questioned whether Bonds was telling the truth when he told a grand jury he unknowingly took steroids thinking it was flaxseed oil.

"He's admitted taking it, but not knowingly. I think that's a crock," Wells said. "I would never take something without knowing what I was putting in my body. There's no way."

Bonds lost most of America long before he lost any fellow players. His boorish behavior and indifference to fans alienated many even before he became the poster child for the BALCO steroid investigation.

He makes $20 million a year, but has no real endorsements because he is such a polarizing figure. A recent poll showed two-thirds of baseball fans have either unfavorable or mixed views about him, and he was ranked almost at the bottom by fans in a survey of how trustworthy and admirable they found 1,500 different athletes and celebrities.

Hitting No. 715 isn't going to change that. The crowds in San Francisco still cheer, but when Bonds goes on the road this week he's not going to find fans eager to celebrate the milestone with him in New York.

Bonds will again be cast in the role of villain, but it's become a worn act. After nearly four weeks of waiting for Bonds to pass the Babe, America is just as weary of watching.

Besides, there's always next year when No. 755 will loom even larger and baseball fans will have another reason to be conflicted about the surly slugger.

For now, though, Bonds is tired of us. And we're tired of Bonds. It's time to give it a rest.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/05/060530bonds.shtml

 

[HCI]

vurbano do you even watch baseball or know any history on it?

 

[brainiac]

Maybe now Barry Bonds will finally leave us all alone <!--/END PHONE HEADLINE-->
an Associated Press report 05/30/06
<FONT face=verdana color=#000000 size=1>
<!--PHONE IGNORE--><!--IMAGES AND LINKS BOX<table width="240" border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="2" align="right"><tr><td bgcolor="#a50800" valign="top" align="center">

</td></tr><tr><td valign="top">It was this fuel barge that scraped the bridge.</td></tr></table><!-- END IMAGE AND LINKS BOX--><!--/END PHONE IGNORE--><!--PHONE STORY-->
Our long national nightmare is over.

Finally, we have a reason to thank Barry Bonds.

With one swing of the bat Sunday on a 90 mph fastball from Byung-Hyun Kim, Bonds accomplished much more than just passing Babe Ruth on the all-time home run list.

He made the fans in San Francisco as happy as they can be during a year when they are constantly reminded about the earthquake that destroyed the city a century ago. He allowed baseball to escape yet another embarrassing moment from its Incredible Hulk era by hitting it on the final game of a homestand.

And he gave everyone who has wasted hours in line waiting for a beer at the ballpark a reason to keep going back.
Hard to tell who was happier with No. 715 -- Bonds or the guy who went to get a couple of beers during his historic at-bat and wound up with not only a pricey baseball but a potential future TV commercial if the folks at Budweiser or Coors are on the, er, ball.

Not a bad day all around. But the best is yet to come.

Because now America doesn't have to waste a Memorial Day better suited to other things worrying, or even thinking, about Barry Bonds. Now baseball fans can get on with what figures to be an intriguing season without wondering what really makes the players go.

And maybe now, Bonds will finally leave us alone.
Yea, that's right. Leave us alone.

You see, we're as tired of him as he is of us. Tired of comparing him to the Babe, tired of trying to figure out how many home runs he might have hit without any help.

Tired of just about everything that has to do with a moment that even Major League Baseball can't bring itself to celebrate.

Then again, it's hard to celebrate a man at the same time you're investigating him for allegedly using steroids.
Maybe Bud Selig will send a note or something.

"Any time you have an accomplishment, they normally congratulate you and send you a telegram or letter," Bonds said.
The Giants did a little celebrating of their own for their slugger. They unfurled two banners from light towers in center field, one with Bonds and 715 and the other with Hank Aaron at 755. And Bonds had a little champagne with his teammates in the locker room afterward.

Selig was conspicuous by what he didn't say, but congratulations came from afar from other players who didn't question why, at a time when his muscles and skills were supposed to be fading, Bonds was able to hit 258 of his 715 home runs between the ages of 35 and 40.

"He's the greatest, in my era, home run hitter I have ever seen," Braves pitcher John Smoltz said.
The code of ethics in baseball, of course, is never to question your fellow player. And, on this day, maybe it was best to let Bonds have his day.

It was just last week, after all, that Boston pitcher David Wells tried to ruin the party over No. 714 when he said Bonds was juiced when he hit some of his home runs off him. Wells also questioned whether Bonds was telling the truth when he told a grand jury he unknowingly took steroids thinking it was flaxseed oil.

"He's admitted taking it, but not knowingly. I think that's a crock," Wells said. "I would never take something without knowing what I was putting in my body. There's no way."

Bonds lost most of America long before he lost any fellow players. His boorish behavior and indifference to fans alienated many even before he became the poster child for the BALCO steroid investigation.

He makes $20 million a year, but has no real endorsements because he is such a polarizing figure. A recent poll showed two-thirds of baseball fans have either unfavorable or mixed views about him, and he was ranked almost at the bottom by fans in a survey of how trustworthy and admirable they found 1,500 different athletes and celebrities.

Hitting No. 715 isn't going to change that. The crowds in San Francisco still cheer, but when Bonds goes on the road this week he's not going to find fans eager to celebrate the milestone with him in New York.

Bonds will again be cast in the role of villain, but it's become a worn act. After nearly four weeks of waiting for Bonds to pass the Babe, America is just as weary of watching.

Besides, there's always next year when No. 755 will loom even larger and baseball fans will have another reason to be conflicted about the surly slugger.

For now, though, Bonds is tired of us. And we're tired of Bonds. It's time to give it a rest.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2006/05/060530bonds.shtml

Talk about irony! It was the media who created all the hype in the first place, and now they want to wash their hands of it? Only in America! And that clown David Wells' opinion notwithstanding, this is from your own article above: "Then again, it's hard to celebrate a man at the same time you're investigating him for allegedly using steroids." Again, no admission, no proof.

 

[Purogamer]

1) Didn't David Wells Pitch a no-hitter drunk? Some guys can't hit or pitch when a little tipsy, some guys perform better. Some guys take steroids and never make it out of single-A ball, some guys become MLB superstars. To say that ANYTHING enhances someone is really absurd. You can take HGH all you want (do you guys know anything about HGH?), you still have to HIT THE f**kING BALL or you just swing at the air a little harder. Don't they say (wrongly) that hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do? Well, how about some props for a guy who's playing this hard-to-hit game for a 3rd decade...

I guess if you can't hit HR's when you're older, wouldn't every 22 year old be hitting 50+? Doesn't quite work that way.

As for Lance, that french newspaper hates his guts. I don't remember if they stole the sample or got it from someone, but they weren't supposed to have it and it's transaction to the french newspaper is completely undocumented, which means they could have done anything they wanted to it before testing it. Plus I think it had paperwork with it with lance's initials, which isn't exactly concrete proof that it's his especially when it's not officially transfered. This is exactly why an independant group has found this to be untrue.

Even if it was true, and lance was guilty, it was his first TDF win. He'd still be a 6x winner and would have come back to re-win the 7th with ease. Every year that TDF has gotten easier for lance, and not because he's some super-drug freak, it's because he has the best team in cycling and the best equipment. I was glad to see this last year when he finally had a team that kind of sucked and had to work for that TDF win. He showed that he still had it after kind of coasting through the past 2 TDF's...

 

[Peter Parker]

I don't think anyone has said that you can't hit home runs when you are older---or that all younger man hit more than all older men. What has been said is that it is odd that HR production would rise so dramatically at an age when it usually declines.

As for Mr. Armstrong the only point ever raised is that we don't know whether he failed a test. However all reasonable doubt on that point was removed at basically the same time the post was made. The only defense I have there is tha tonce i knew that I stated that I was unfair to him. But no one has alleged that the samples were stolen or whatever. Where he seems to have been treated badly is in what they did with the samples.

 

[vurbano]

vurbano do you even watch baseball or know any history on it?

Yes. Do you still think OJ is innocent?

 

[Purogamer]

When it USUALLY declines. Again, sports is filled with guys who turn in average performances and sometimes they have bad games, and sometimes they have great games. Sometimes they have bad stretches and sometimes they have great stretches. It's like saying You'd have to be on steroids to hit in 56 straight games because it's not something that has been done very often, yet I don't believe i've ever heard anyone accuse Mr. Monroe of juicing. The guy was just good, or on a lucky streak, or some unexplained phenomenon. Wilt once scored 100 points, was he juicing? Kobe had what, 80 this season? MUST have been juicing right? It's all just so silly anymore.

We've got baseball players getting arrested for running from the cops and cheating on their wives, we've got baseball players throwing racial and sexist slurs around, we've even had baseball players get beat by their wives in the car, but we're screaming about the guy who MIGHT have taken steroids for the sole purpose of giving us something to cheer about ON THE FIELD. Just seems like we've got our priorities wrong.

If he did take steroids to hit more home runs, he knew the risks. If he's willing to cut 30 years off his life to give us a thrill 160 times a year, it's his choice. I don't know why a guy who's never been a fan-favorite, and hasn't shown any desire to change that since his home run burst, would suddenly decide to take steroids at the end of a long successful career. What was in it for him? At that time nobody really thought about breaking 61, nobody thought about catching Hank (Which bonds doesn't want to do anyways). There's all kinds of finger-pointing going on but what possible reason would he have to start taking steroids?

 

[salsadancer7]

When it USUALLY declines. Again, sports is filled with guys who turn in average performances and sometimes they have bad games, and sometimes they have great games. Sometimes they have bad stretches and sometimes they have great stretches. It's like saying You'd have to be on steroids to hit in 56 straight games because it's not something that has been done very often, yet I don't believe i've ever heard anyone accuse Mr. Monroe of juicing. The guy was just good, or on a lucky streak, or some unexplained phenomenon. Wilt once scored 100 points, was he juicing? Kobe had what, 80 this season? MUST have been juicing right? It's all just so silly anymore.

We've got baseball players getting arrested for running from the cops and cheating on their wives, we've got baseball players throwing racial and sexist slurs around, we've even had baseball players get beat by their wives in the car, but we're screaming about the guy who MIGHT have taken steroids for the sole purpose of giving us something to cheer about ON THE FIELD. Just seems like we've got our priorities wrong.

If he did take steroids to hit more home runs, he knew the risks. If he's willing to cut 30 years off his life to give us a thrill 160 times a year, it's his choice. I don't know why a guy who's never been a fan-favorite, and hasn't shown any desire to change that since his home run burst, would suddenly decide to take steroids at the end of a long successful career. What was in it for him? At that time nobody really thought about breaking 61, nobody thought about catching Hank (Which bonds doesn't want to do anyways). There's all kinds of finger-pointing going on but what possible reason would he have to start taking steroids?

He would have been a Hall of Famer whether he took 'roids or not. I think he took them because of all the attention Sosa and McGuire got when they went on the home run hitting binge in the late 90s. Remember, Bonds comes from baseball royalty....Bobby his dad, Mays his uncle or godfather or whatever it was. Around some of the biggest names at the time when he was just a kids...so it goes down to he is just a spoil kid that never grew up.

 

[Peter Parker]

When it USUALLY declines. Again, sports is filled with guys who turn in average performances and sometimes they have bad games, and sometimes they have great games. Sometimes they have bad stretches and sometimes they have great stretches. It's like saying You'd have to be on steroids to hit in 56 straight games because it's not something that has been done very often, yet I don't believe i've ever heard anyone accuse Mr. Monroe of juicing. The guy was just good, or on a lucky streak, or some unexplained phenomenon. Wilt once scored 100 points, was he juicing? Kobe had what, 80 this season? MUST have been juicing right? It's all just so silly anymore.

We've got baseball players getting arrested for running from the cops and cheating on their wives, we've got baseball players throwing racial and sexist slurs around, we've even had baseball players get beat by their wives in the car, but we're screaming about the guy who MIGHT have taken steroids for the sole purpose of giving us something to cheer about ON THE FIELD. Just seems like we've got our priorities wrong.

If he did take steroids to hit more home runs, he knew the risks. If he's willing to cut 30 years off his life to give us a thrill 160 times a year, it's his choice. I don't know why a guy who's never been a fan-favorite, and hasn't shown any desire to change that since his home run burst, would suddenly decide to take steroids at the end of a long successful career. What was in it for him? At that time nobody really thought about breaking 61, nobody thought about catching Hank (Which bonds doesn't want to do anyways). There's all kinds of finger-pointing going on but what possible reason would he have to start taking steroids?

If you seriously believe that that kind od spike in production is natural then so be it. But are you seriosuly saying that there was nothing in it for him to do whatever it took regardless of the legality? You dismiss the single season and career HR records as meaningless. Perhaps they are to you but I suspect that many baseball players and baseball fans think otherwise. Most of us know who has the career HR mark and who he beat to get there. The number 714 (which is not even the record anymore) is one of the most famous numbers in sports. And we all know what the single season mark was before Bonds, who held it, who he beat, and who that person beat. There are few sports records so integral to their respectice spors.

 

[Peter Parker]

When it USUALLY declines. Again, sports is filled with guys who turn in average performances and sometimes they have bad games, and sometimes they have great games. Sometimes they have bad stretches and sometimes they have great stretches. It's like saying You'd have to be on steroids to hit in 56 straight games because it's not something that has been done very often, yet I don't believe i've ever heard anyone accuse Mr. Monroe of juicing. The guy was just good, or on a lucky streak, or some unexplained phenomenon. Wilt once scored 100 points, was he juicing? Kobe had what, 80 this season? MUST have been juicing right? It's all just so silly anymore.

We've got baseball players getting arrested for running from the cops and cheating on their wives, we've got baseball players throwing racial and sexist slurs around, we've even had baseball players get beat by their wives in the car, but we're screaming about the guy who MIGHT have taken steroids for the sole purpose of giving us something to cheer about ON THE FIELD. Just seems like we've got our priorities wrong.

If he did take steroids to hit more home runs, he knew the risks. If he's willing to cut 30 years off his life to give us a thrill 160 times a year, it's his choice. I don't know why a guy who's never been a fan-favorite, and hasn't shown any desire to change that since his home run burst, would suddenly decide to take steroids at the end of a long successful career. What was in it for him? At that time nobody really thought about breaking 61, nobody thought about catching Hank (Which bonds doesn't want to do anyways). There's all kinds of finger-pointing going on but what possible reason would he have to start taking steroids?

If you seriously believe that that kind of spike in production is natural then so be it. You should be aware though that in late 2004 Bonds admitted using substances from his trainer referred to as "the clear and the cream" but said that he thought that were flax seed oil. Perhaps he did think that. But I don't think that many really think that his trainer gave him flax seed oil.


But are you seriosuly saying that there was nothing in it for him to do whatever it took regardless of the legality? You dismiss the single season and career HR records as meaningless. Perhaps they are to you but I suspect that many baseball players and baseball fans think otherwise. Most of us know who has the career HR mark and who he beat to get there. The number 714 (which is not even the record anymore) is one of the most famous numbers in sports. And we all know what the single season mark was before Bonds, who held it, who he beat, and who that person beat. There are few sports records so integral to their respective sports.

 

[Purogamer]

What's the difference between hitting more HR's and hitting more doubles or triples or anything? Some guys hit 2 HR's a year for a while and then hit 15, that's a much larger percentage gain than barry has ever had. Hitting more doubles than you used to could also trigger "steroid" implications because you're suddenly running faster. All these old notions that it's the power hitters who are the roid freaks, when the guys who have been busted most since the testing began is pitchers, and I think the first known guy was a speedster who's never had power (can't think of his name).

Let's assume Barry started taking roids after the Sosa/McGwire Dream HR season. You think he got jealous of Sammy Sosa?? You think he got jealous of McGwire? Like it was said, he's a HOF player at that point, and he had always had less HR's than mark. After 98 he was about 50 hr's behind him. You think, even though mark always hit more, that he suddenly got jealous? Jealous of what? You say in one sentence that he's an a$$hole who doesn't care what people think and then suggest he's jealous he's not getting the attention in another. That makes no sense. Even if it was the case, why didn't barry hit 73 in 99? Why'd he take 3 years to do it, and then drop back down to average since. It can't POSSIBLY be one of the million sports anomolies? Absurd. Some guys have hit 4 HR's in a game, it's an anomoly. Some guys pitch perfect games. It's an anomoly. He's never wanted to break Hank's record since that's family to him, and there's no way after 98 when he had 411 hr's that he said "I'll take steroids and hit another 300 even though i've played 12 seasons already...", because it makes no sense...

This whole debate is silly. If you guys don't like bonds fine, but enough already. Until he fails a drug test of there's concrete proof that he's used steroids, drop it. Albert Pujols looks like he's going to break all these records anyways, so start hating him because obviously he's a juiced up freak, there can be no other explanation like he's good or at least better than Johnny Baseball Player in the lineup next to him...

 

[Peter Parker]

The difference is that Hrs take more physical strength and quickness of reflexes.

It has nothing to so with liking or hating Bonds. It has to do with being realistic. at this point not even Bonds claims he has not taken steroids. But you cling to that idea.