Bad Sensor? Or....?

[Titanium]

Did the ASC1 previously work properly on your old dish?

I would take the controller out to the new dish and test for proper operation.

I am a firm believer in grounding and bonding, so you know where I stand on this subject. I would suggest that you disconnect the wires and coax from the controller and test between each wire and ground inside of your home (including the coax). Even though the dish does not have a dedicated ground rod, there might be voltage potential between the house and the dish (the dish may not have the best ground, but it is sitting on a pole encased in cement sunk in the ground). Check for voltage in excess of 1/2 volt with one probe on a wire and the other probe touching a ground source in the house (ASC1 case if plugged in, the cover plate screw, etc.). A voltage potential greater than .5v can create a significant amount of noise and erratic control.

When the dish drives long (past the satellite) and the dish must be moved back towards the previous satellite to acquire the target satellite sensor counts are not happening or being missed. Note that aging reed switches often have open/closure issues that cause erratic counts. The missed counts also could be due to a high level of noise masking the sensor cycles. This is often caused by an aging motor and dirty brushes. Capacitor filtering of the motor could reduce the effect of the interference, but I would try and identify the cause and address it at the source.

As the dish is not grounded, I would connect the sensor shield drain wire only inside to the GND terminal on the ASC1. Leave the other end at the actuator open and unconnected. The connection only to the actuator may actually be increasing the noise rather than bleeding it off.

 

[RT-Cat]

Interesting list of ideas. I will check on all of them and see what happens.
It may take a day or two due to weather here.

 

[armadillo_115]

In addition to Titanium's excellent advice:
You might try straight-wiring the wires at the actuator.My system was giving me fits...but it was all caused by poor connections at the old wire terminal block. Pigtail the appropriate wires together and either wire cap them or screw them into spots on the wire terminal. Takes only a few minutes and it's easy to change back later.

I've been trouble free long enough to call mine 'fixed'.

 

[RT-Cat]

In addition to Titanium's excellent advice:
You might try straight-wiring the wires at the actuator.......

I did check the terminal strip and under the screws it is shinny as the day it was manufactured. Good thing to check.

Did the ASC1 previously work properly on your old dish?

I would take the controller out to the new dish and test for proper operation.

I am a firm believer in grounding and bonding, so you know where I stand on this subject. I would suggest that you disconnect the wires and coax from the controller and test between each wire and ground inside of your home (including the coax). Even though the dish does not have a dedicated ground rod, there might be voltage potential between the house and the dish (the dish may not have the best ground, but it is sitting on a pole encased in cement sunk in the ground). Check for voltage in excess of 1/2 volt with one probe on a wire and the other probe touching a ground source in the house (ASC1 case if plugged in, the cover plate screw, etc.). A voltage potential greater than .5v can create a significant amount of noise and erratic control.

When the dish drives long (past the satellite) and the dish must be moved back towards the previous satellite to acquire the target satellite sensor counts are not happening or being missed. Note that aging reed switches often have open/closure issues that cause erratic counts. The missed counts also could be due to a high level of noise masking the sensor cycles. This is often caused by an aging motor and dirty brushes. Capacitor filtering of the motor could reduce the effect of the interference, but I would try and identify the cause and address it at the source.

As the dish is not grounded, I would connect the sensor shield drain wire only inside to the GND terminal on the ASC1. Leave the other end at the actuator open and unconnected. The connection only to the actuator may actually be increasing the noise rather than bleeding it off.

It sort of worked on a different actuator when I purchased it. Took it off after a month and put a Gbox on and it has been running things here. Got the ASC-1 out because of this new installation.
All wires removed in the house and checked with meter set to .1 of a volt. Anything should pin the needle. Nothing on any of the wires or the coax.
Went out today to the dish with all the equipment. Removed all wires and added short wires to the ASC-1. It still overruns almost all the time. Guess that means the reed switch needs to be replaced. That is why I ordered one last night. Should be here Thursday. Since UPS gets here around 7 PM, I will not install until Friday. If it is not raining.
Reconnected wires in the house and put the shield drain on the ground connection. That is it so far.

 

[Titanium]

Great troubleshooting!

The sensor may be fine, so be prepared to check the motor as it is older and unknown condition.

Do you have a scope available to check for excessive noise? If so, I would check the motor. It is possible that aging brushes or windings are causing a lot of noise. Do you have a .01uf / 50v (or approx) capacitor to place across the motor wires? and/or If you have a line choke (from a computer AC line, RS-232, USB, HDMI, recycled power supply, etc.), wrap the motor power leads once or twice through the choke. Both of these things can control moderate noise from entering the distribution system.

Back to checking the wires inside of the ASC1, When you reassembled, make sure that the Servo and Sensor ribbon wires running from the main PCB to the f-connector PCB are routed up near the top of the case and not laying near the transformer, AC wires or down on top of the main PCB. You might also cut the nylon tie and separate the Red/Black (M1/M2) wires. Twist the Red/Black wires 10+ times and plug back into the main PCB. Also twist the transformer Yellow/Blue wires 5-7 times and reconnect to the main PCB. These wire bundle twists help control noise internally.

 

[Larry1]

Can the reed sensor turn in the white plastic triangle? If so, any difference if you turn it... say 30 degrees.

 

[RT-Cat]

It and the white holder are threaded. Should move. I will check when daylight returns.
.
I took the ASC-1 apart again and moved the wires away from that big transformer. Twisted the transformer wires several times. Also added the .01 cap on the motor wires. Think I will also take a look at the inside condition of the motor on the actuator. Again, when daylight returns. I had a choke or two around here somewhere. Would have been smart if I would have put them in the electronics junk box when I pulled them out of ???? I think it was a laser printer.....

 

[RT-Cat]

Even though the sun peeked out for a few minutes this morning, it looks like this is the start of another bad dish day.
Went out and opened the motor to check on condition. Motor guts looked OK. Brushes were about 1/2 gone. Everything looks good in the motor. Put it back together and went in the house to the ASC-1. Tried to move the dish and got the "limit reached" warning. Well the dish was at 101 so no where near the limit. First thought was I messed up the motor. Went out to dish with wire and a battery. Removed the wires to the house and tested the motor with battery. Moves with no problem. Both directions. Slow as would be expected with only 12 volts.
So I moved it to the west with battery and reconnected the house wires. Went to ASC-1, plugged it in, powered it up. Did a global reset so everything is back to base settings. Set the West limit and tried to move dish to the East. Same results: Limit reached message. Before I had a satellite overrun problem. Now I have an actuator the won't move at all.
This is getting to be a real bummer.
Edit: Thought I should add that it did move after the wire move in the ASC-1 in post #27.

 

[Titanium]

Back to the original test: Does the motor energize and momentarily move before the error message? Is the sensor reed switch cycling when tested with the multi-meter?

Since you tore down the motor and moved the sensor/wheel, maybe something is not correctly reassembled/reconnected?

If the motor moves with 12v, but not with the controller, the sensor/distribution/circuit is likely the problem. The erratic counts and error message could originate from this.

 

[Magic Static]

I agree with Brian. The sensor is missing counts. This suggests the reeds are sticking in the switch.

 

[RT-Cat]

Back to the original test: Does the motor energize and momentarily move before the error message? Is the sensor reed switch cycling when tested with the multi-meter?

Since you tore down the motor and moved the sensor/wheel, maybe something is not correctly reassembled/reconnected?

If the motor moves with 12v, but not with the controller, the sensor/distribution/circuit is likely the problem. The erratic counts and error message could originate from this.

The error message happens instantaneously.
Motor was opened from the long bolts from the out side. Sensor wheel is on end of main shaft. Never got inside to upset its position.
Seems odd the sensor decided to malfunction just at this time since motor opening was no where near the sensor or the magnet wheel. That end cap of actuator was never opened until after it would not move.
.
I have a new sensor coming late Thursday. Will see what happens after that is installed on Friday if not raining.

 

[Titanium]

If the motor is not energizing, then I would see if the actuator is momentarily getting power from the controller. Should read voltage (28-34Vdc) prior to the error message appearing. If no power is outputted from the controller, unplug from AC for 10-30 minutes to reset protection circuits.

 

[RT-Cat]

I am so over this problem, I went back out to the dish and did what Larry1 suggested. Rotated the reed switch about 30 or so degrees. It is threaded in the holder. It must be bad and was stuck. Went back in house and dish moves without any problem. Still overruns but sure looks like reed switch is having fits.
ASC-1 was unplugged for about 45 minutes. Maybe that was it. When new reed arrives soon we may get the final answer.....maybe.....

 

[Larry1]

Is the reed switch close enough to the magnets? When to far away it may produce a pulse (close open sequence) when the motor is turned by hand or slowly, but not have enough magnetic strength to close the switch when turning at a fast speed.
When it was giving the errors before the reed switch was turned, was the motor actually turning? or giving errors right away with no turning what so ever?

 

[RT-Cat]

I think it was stuck closed and that was what kept the controller from powering the motor to move. When I turned it a little, it must have "let go" and opened up again. Then things would work again. I had never moved the reed since I found the Winegard that it was on. It has been in storage for about three years. New reed here late Thursday with install on Friday.

 

[RT-Cat]

The reed that I found arrived and I could see it was going to be too long, but installed it and left the cover off. Set several satellite locations and dish moved to where it was set for. Several moves and it stayed "right on." So it sure looks like it was the reed switch. Put dead or sick one back on so I could replace cover.
A PM with Magic Static was good since he managed to find just what I was looking for to replace the bad one on the actuator. You just have know what you are doing, I guess. I search digikey for an hour and MS found one that looks and measures purrrrrfect in no time at all.
Thanks MS,

 

[Titanium]

Unused actuators often have the reed switch magnetized from the extended proximity stored against a magnet. Great to hear that you have identified the problem and that Magic Static was able to assist with locating the correct reed switch. So glad that these manufacturers used standard components when building the actuators! Looking forward to hearing about the final resolution.

 

[N6BY]

Unused actuators often have the reed switch magnetized from the extended proximity stored against a magnet. Great to hear that you have identified the problem and that Magic Static was able to assist with locating the correct reed switch. So glad that these manufacturers used standard components when building the actuators! Looking forward to hearing about the final resolution.

That's very good to know!

It may explain why the GBox connected to my Bridview with a magnet wheel is starting to lose count a lot. It worked flawlessly for over a year. Then the dish sat in the same spot for a long time, and now the positioning is way off. The only way to position it now takes lots of trial and error, and going outside to measure the elevation angle of where its at

Will order a replacement reed sensor and see if it solves the problem.

 

[RT-Cat]

Since Columbus sailed the ocean blue, that delayed delivery of my new sensor until this morning. When you look at the cardboard box, the expanded wrapping paper, the paper insert warning to check for small parts, a static bag, and the part in another bag, you would wonder Digikey can make any money. Then again the part they sold for $11.00 could have cost them 35 cents, so........
Put the new sensor on and set several satellites. Then time to check them out! Moved to one, right on. Moved to another a long ways away, right on. Moved to one between those two, right on. Moved back to the second one, right on.
So it sure looks like the problem here was a sick reed switch. This sure looks like this problem has been solved.