Bad news regarding Dish and "DRM"

[Foxbat]

Finally, what's the liability with component outputs anyway? If there was an affordable way to record HD from the component output, I doubt we'd have so many people complaining about not being able to copy recordings from their external drives.

I've posted many a time about this device, which for $350 will take your Component outputs and turn them into digital HD on your hard drive. It's been out for almost a year now.

 

[tigershere]

they need to stop with the DRM or copy protection
It's always cracked

It just sends people looking for the free stuff on the net and it's all there and easy to find

a**holes

 

[kb7oeb]

HDCP support is optional on both DVI and HDMI

This is true. Plus, HDMI is a cranky, unstable standard. We were using component whenever we could to prevent trouble calls. Far too many trouble calls because the customer's picture would just black out, and wouldn't come back on with certain TVs. This of course had to do with the tiniest glitch with the so-called "HDCP" bullsh*t. One hiccup, and the HDMI link would stop functioning.

It would hit my local cable company hard if channels started enforcing that because they connect everyone with component and the techs don't even have HDMI/DVI cables.

 

[Hall]

HDCP support is optional on both DVI and HDMI

Is that still true ? I believe it used to be, but it's req'd nowadays.

Cable set-tops have notoriously had terrible HDMI compatibility issues. For years, the local Time Warner didn't support DVI or HDMI. If it worked, great. If not, don't call them for help or to complain.

 

[mlb]

How do you get the data off of the DVR onto a PC though ? Without getting into "hack talk", the encryption scheme for the 622/722 DVRs has *not* been broken, has it ? I guess they're planning ahead in anticipation that it will be ?

You can buy special video input cards (very expensive) that take component in and write to a file. That would give you the same PQ/resolution as what you see on your HDTV. Component is an analog signal, HDMI is digital. They can protect the digital signal, not the analog.

 

[mlb]

Yes they are. You aren't aware of the whole issue here. So-called "DRM" is just another step in the content provider's jihad against fair use. They don't like people time-shifting programs or recording anything for any use. They never have. They tried to get VCRs banned in the 80's, they tried to ban DVRs when they were first developed, and Jack Valenti (Thank God he's dead, and may he rot in hell) said he concidered time-shifting and use of VCRs as "theft". The DMCA was a way for them to get around much of the fair use laws, and this so called "DRM" bullsh*t, is a way for them to cripple DVRs and other legal content use. Watch for more and more channels and shows to have "no-record" flags, and even "no commercial skip" flags. Go to EFF.org and read up on this whole "broadcast flag" issue. It will open your eyes to what really going on, not the spin the content providers give you.

I'm very familiar with the broadcast flag, and I'm totally against it myself. I am for fair use, however, the content providers do need to protect themselves from people sending the content to the internet for others to illegally download.

 

[Tyralak]

I'm very familiar with the broadcast flag, and I'm totally against it myself. I am for fair use, however, the content providers do need to protect themselves from people sending the content to the internet for others to illegally download.

That's fine, but not at the expense of the consumer. Plus, piracy is always the excuse used by these companies when they want to cheat the customers. It's similar to horrendus laws passed and the excuse is: "It's for the CHILDREN. You don't HATE children, do you?"

 

[wase4711]

I'm very familiar with the broadcast flag, and I'm totally against it myself. I am for fair use, however, the content providers do need to protect themselves from people sending the content to the internet for others to illegally download.

Yeah the major studios are REALLY SUFFERING because of that..Take a look at the Balance sheet of EVERY MAJOR STUDIO...Untold wealth, is all I can see..
Piracy sux, but once again, its the lame excuse that the multi-zillion dollar rich studios use to try and implement these lame, consumer annoying "safeguards"..

 

[mlb]

I'm not saying they aren't making huge money, but at the same time how much money are they losing to piracy right now?

That is like saying that Microsoft, or EA, or anybody who produces computer software should not protect their IP, because they are still making money on it.

 

[Jim S.]

I'm not saying they aren't making huge money, but at the same time how much money are they losing to piracy right now?

It could be as little as zero loss, depending on how many people pirating movies would actually buy them if they couldn't. My guess is a rather large number of them would just do without.

 

[mlb]

It could be as little as zero loss, depending on how many people pirating movies would actually buy them if they couldn't. My guess is a rather large number of them would just do without.

Fair point... however many of them would maybe just by 1 or 2 movies instead of pirating 50 a year.

Honestly, there is no reason for them not to at least take some steps to protect their property. Obviously some people will find a way around any protections they build in, but if you just left it wide open even more would do it.

 

[Tyralak]

Fair point... however many of them would maybe just by 1 or 2 movies instead of pirating 50 a year.

Honestly, there is no reason for them not to at least take some steps to protect their property. Obviously some people will find a way around any protections they build in, but if you just left it wide open even more would do it.

They can build in some, but not things that infringe on fair use. You're still buying into the lie that this is all about piracy. It isn't. Piracy is a part of it, but the major reason is that the studios are trying to eliminate fair use piece by piece. Make resrictions draconian enough incramentally, and eventually people will forget there actually was a thing called fair use.

 

[wase4711]

I'm not saying they aren't making huge money, but at the same time how much money are they losing to piracy right now?

That is like saying that Microsoft, or EA, or anybody who produces computer software should not protect their IP, because they are still making money on it.

I agree, companies are entitled to make $$$ on any of their IP; however, its when the greed gets out of control, that piracy starts to become a factor..
If Vista was 49.00 instead of 299.00, how many more people would be likely to buy a legal copy?

The music world has realized this, and since legal downloads costing ~99 cents became the rule, look at the $$$ the record companies are now realizing..Even some of the movie studios are coming around, selling new releases for 15 dollars or less, instead of the 79 dollars they used to be a few years ago..
Piracy will never go away, but law abiding citizens shouldnt have to jump through hoops to get products and services, just because the providers are worried that their signal might be comprimised by a few law breakers..I mean, adding DHCP so that only HDMI/DVI equipped sets can recieve a signal is going overboard, and, there are plenty of times where even if you are legal, and you have a DVI/HMDI connection, you STILL might have problems viewing certain things...DRM as its exists today is NOT a good thing for anyone..

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Judging by the sounds of Leslie Harper on todays retailer chat it sounds like in the future they may down res HD going out over component video. Only HDCP compatable digital displays will be able to output the full resolution HD.

But with this happening, I dont see it as something that Dish wants to do, its more likely that the content providers such as HBO are pushing for this technology to be put in place.

The day HBO makes Dish down res HBO to my older HDTV which does not support HDMI or HDCP is the day I cancel HBO. When that happens the only ones who lose are HBO and Dish Network as they just lost a revenu stream.

I would encourage all SatelliteGuys members to do the same when the time comes.

 

[mlb]

I certainly will, Scott. If the non-movie networks start doing the same I am liable to just drop my TV provider all together...

 

[Poke]

Yeah I never would subscribe to HBO,Showtime or any other movie channel due to they show movies that are months old if not years old.. Things come out on DVD so fast now like every Tuesday of the month HBO channels like that too me are just a waste anyway as far as movies go..

 

[akodoreign]

Yeah I never would subscribe to HBO,Showtime or any other movie channel due to they show movies that are months old if not years old.. Things come out on DVD so fast now like every Tuesday of the month HBO channels like that too me are just a waste anyway as far as movies go..

Will cancel HBO after 3 months free is up. Got to keep SHO though. Wife loves the Tudors.

 

[Poke]

Yeah there might be a few shows they have rights to but besides that their just old movie channels.

 

[ehren]

Scott- I am with you, I only have 2 component video jacks on my HDTV set. I love my HDTV CRT set, I wouldn't trade it for a crappy LCD or Plasma anyday! Plus my HDTV tells me when it's 1080i or 480p on the screen, so they can't fool me the bastards!

 

[wmi]

Here's what it says word for word.

Training Blast
Customer Education: HD Cable Usage

When connecting a ViP receiver to a television, remember to use an HDMI cable if the customer's television supports HDMI.

A component cable connection will provide an HD picture. However, this is not the best solution for a customer that has an HDMI supported HDTV.

In addition, Digital Rights Management will be in effect very soon. Customers may not be able to see some HD channels when using a component cable. When possible, always use an HDMI cable.

Think ahead now, and prevent future customer issues.

You gotta love Dish. They tell us to use HDMI cable, yet our shop has not received a shipment of them in a couple of months.

I don't even want to guess how many HD installs and upgrades we have done without them.