Bad news regarding Dish and "DRM"

[skottey]

This is true. Plus, HDMI is a cranky, unstable standard. We were using component whenever we could to prevent trouble calls. Far too many trouble calls because the customer's picture would just black out, and wouldn't come back on with certain TVs. This of course had to do with the tiniest glitch with the so-called "HDCP" bullsh*t. One hiccup, and the HDMI link would stop functioning.

I use HDMI on 2 different TVs, with 2 sat boxes, 2 cable boxes, PS3, and 2 DVD recorder-players. The only device I have ever had a problem with was one of the cable boxes on one of the TVs. It would cut out, but that was because the cable box was sending the TV the signal at too high of bitrate. Once the TV and cable box were plugged in in the correct order I have had no problems. Frustrating, yes, but only temporarily on one cable box and one TV. The other devices have all been trouble free using HDMI.

For the record, with my TVs, HDMI looks better on all devices than component cables. I have tried both. Some people find component looks better on their TVs with Dish and Sat but that is not the case for everybody.

 

[Jim S.]

It's not as simple as a HDMI-DVI adapter. DRM implies the use of HDCP over HDMI which means that HD content won't go out to your adapter since it can't provide an HDCP handshake.

My Gateway monitor allegedly does HDCP over DVI. (With all its other firmware flakiness, I wouldn't bet my life on it actually working.)

But I still have a problem. I eventually want to have two HD displays. I'm absolutely not going to pay Dish any ridiculous fees for a second receiver, and even if I bought one outright I would still need to pay a second DVR fee or not have a DVR, right? (Plus I really don't need two DVRs, just one with two outputs even if it's the same program.) Is there any sort of smart HDMI splitter which will let one device do the HDCP but send the outgoing signal to two devices?

On the other hand, I suspect they'd only enforce DRM on the movie channels, in which case I wouldn't care because I don't subscribe to any of them. Doesn't do the rest of you any good though.

Finally, what's the liability with component outputs anyway? If there was an affordable way to record HD from the component output, I doubt we'd have so many people complaining about not being able to copy recordings from their external drives.

 

[Chucka]

Two component inputs and no HDMI on a perfectly good 50" set. I do not plan to upgrade for at least a few years so I would be out of luck?

 

[Tyralak]

Two component inputs and no HDMI on a perfectly good 50" set. I do not plan to upgrade for at least a few years so I would be out of luck?

Quite possibly. I do hope someone sues the sh*t out of whomever is making Dish do this.

 

[crappieguy]

Well before they start that crap they better get ALL their HDMI issues resolved. Because I still see several TV's with issues. WEEKLY

 

[retorq]

I'm almost in the same boat, my Toshiba HD DVD player is using the HDMI port, the 211 uses the component connection. It's bad enough that I have to swap the HDMI cable for my HTPC every now and again ... I guess when that time comes some of us will need to invest in some sort of HDMI switch.

Two component inputs and no HDMI on a perfectly good 50" set. I do not plan to upgrade for at least a few years so I would be out of luck?

 

[maddawg]

Good to see governments allowing big corporations the whereall to do this crap.

 

[Tyralak]

Good to see governments allowing big corporations the whereall to do this crap.

Yep. All the laws money can buy.

 

[harshness]

Guess I need to invest in a HDMI -> DVI connector for my downstairs TV. kinda sucks.

Monoprice.com offers an HDMI -> DVI adapter for $4. I used one until I replaced my TV with one that had HDMI inputs.

 

[kevingilmore]

These guys
HDfury
make a hdmi to component converter with hdcp built into
the adapter.

 

[harshness]

Quite possibly. I do hope someone sues the sh*t out of whomever is making Dish do this.

The programmers are the whomever that are requiring this. Is it really going to help to bite the hands that feeds them?

I'm guessing that now that HDCP is widely available, they are making their programming contingent on DRM support.

 

[Cranked]

However like almost all DRM, it's just stupid. Average Joe consumer is just going to get mad that he can't watch what he legally purchased, and the large-scale content stealers are going to keep burning HD disks on whatever hacked equipment they have.

This is so true. No matter what "protection" you put on something, there is always someone smart enough to crack it. Look at all the modchips for ps/ps2/xbox and soon enough ps3/xbox360 (if it hasnt happened yet). If someone can create protection, someone else can crack it. I know its not as simple as I am making it sound, but really the only people you are screwing is the common user. Hackers will always find a way around protection. PERIOD!!

 

[Cranked]

Yes they are. You aren't aware of the whole issue here. So-called "DRM" is just another step in the content provider's jihad against fair use. They don't like people time-shifting programs or recording anything for any use. They never have. They tried to get VCRs banned in the 80's, they tried to ban DVRs when they were first developed, and Jack Valenti (Thank God he's dead, and may he rot in hell) said he concidered time-shifting and use of VCRs as "theft". The DMCA was a way for them to get around much of the fair use laws, and this so called "DRM" bullsh*t, is a way for them to cripple DVRs and other legal content use. Watch for more and more channels and shows to have "no-record" flags, and even "no commercial skip" flags. Go to EFF.org and read up on this whole "broadcast flag" issue. It will open your eyes to what really going on, not the spin the content providers give you.

Its too bad people dont band together and just stop watching TV altogether and show these douchebags how the masses can strike back against these shenanigans. I like too watch a few shows that I never miss, but I dont need to watch them. I would rather miss them and hit them where it hurts then put up with this garbage.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I have seen ths document, its a DNSC training document and its real.

However with that said I don't expect this copy protection to disable component outputs on the Dish HD receivers anytime soon.

DRM is used on a few pay channels now.

 

[wonko]

These guys
HDfury
make a hdmi to component converter with hdcp built into
the adapter.

Which works fine until its HDCP keys get revoked...

 

[Jim5506]

What would be the point of that? The data is encrypted on the external HD, just like on the internal DVR HD. I would assume the encryption scheme is identical, but of course don't know that for sure.

Data on the internal HDD is either not encrypted or very lightly so (simple to copy).

The External HDD is heavily encrypted.

 

[Tyralak]

The programmers are the whomever that are requiring this. Is it really going to help to bite the hands that feeds them?

I'm guessing that now that HDCP is widely available, they are making their programming contingent on DRM support.

Yes, I believe I stated that. However, I think you missed the point. I didn't say Dish should sue them, I said some other group, such as the EFF should sue them.

 

[quarlo]

<snip> I would rather miss them and hit them where it hurts then put up with this garbage.

No offense and I don' mean dis inna bad way (in your best wise guy accent) ... You most likely won't do that (although kudos to you if you really would) and "the masses" most certainly won't. The sheeple will bend over and take whatever the corps dictate. Deregulation and corporate control of the government mean that you (the great, big collective "you" ... and me) get the shaft. There would need to be a paradigm shift in our collective behavior and/or some modicum of congressional conscience (an oxymoron, in the main) before the continual erosion of your right to fair use of your purchased material is stopped or even slowed down.

"It's not cynicism if the reality of it really does stink."

FX

 

[Hall]

Data on the internal HDD is either not encrypted or very lightly so (simple to copy).

People have pulled the HDDs from their 622/722 DVRs, put them in their PC, and got nowhere. Where did you read otherwise ?

 

[whatchel1]

Source

It looks as if someone is forcing Dish to infect their HD streams with DRM. According to a memo we just received, very soon Dish will be sabotoging certain HD streams with so-called "DRM". So, we have been told to connect all HD receivers with HDMI, because at some point soon, certain HD channels will no longer be visible with component. This is going to be bad news for those HD customers who have older HD monitors or professional models which have no DVI or HDMI inputs. They will soon be cheated out of programming they pay for. I hope this is one of those false alarms that we receive and it never comes to pass, but somehow I doubt it. Get ready for fun times ahead with non-recordable events and time limits on recordings. 24hr PPV anyone? I really hope this is litigated. Dish wouldn't pull this kind of anti-consumer garbage unless they were being forced to by content providers. It doesn't serve any purpose for them.

What's the source of the info. Give us where it's coming from.