Bad news regarding Dish and "DRM"

[dlsnyder]

This is so true. No matter what "protection" you put on something, there is always someone smart enough to crack it. Look at all the modchips for PS/PS/box and soon enough PS/box (if it hasn't happened yet). If someone can create protection, someone else can crack it. I know its not as simple as I am making it sound, but really the only people you are screwing is the common user. Hackers will always find a way around protection. PERIOD!!

This is the entire reason that the DMCA exists. The "experts" that designed the encryption used in HDCP knew that it would be cracked one day (probably sooner than they expected). The DMCA is the other edge of the sword, with stiff fines and prison time for anyone convicted of circumventing the encryption. The algorithm itself doesn't have to be very good to be covered by DMCA.

 

[dlsnyder]

Judging by the sounds of Leslie Harper on todays retailer chat it sounds like in the future they may down res HD going out over component video. Only HDCP compatable digital displays will be able to output the full resolution HD.

Will anyone notice the difference?

 

[wonko]

Another reason this is a very bad idea is also a reason why I don't buy any HD DVD player which is, these players require you to use the HDMI connection or they won't play the movie in HD.
Can you imagine buying a High Definition (HD or Blu-Ray) DVD player and discovering you can't get movies to play in HD because your HD TV doesn't have an HDMI port?
This is a very bad idea and certainly would generate class action lawsuits but there's no accounting for greed.

Except that the general populace (who watch stretched analog cable and think it's HD) probably can't tell the difference anyway. I'd even bet there's a lot of HD-DVD/BD players hooked up with composite cables.

 

[haertig]

The algorithm itself doesn't have to be very good to be covered by DMCA.

Yes ... I head BD+ was actually just ROT-13!

 

[akodoreign]

Except that the general populace (who watch stretched analog cable and think it's HD) probably can't tell the difference anyway. I'd even bet there's a lot of HD-DVD/BD players hooked up with composite cables.

LOL, I have friends like that. I have to explain to them how to hook things up all the time for optimal performance.

 

[AT&TDishman]

Que sera, sera! Whatever will be, will be, the future's not mine to see, que sera, sera!

 

[Muckrak3r]

Except that the general populace (who watch stretched analog cable and think it's HD) probably can't tell the difference anyway. I'd even bet there's a lot of HD-DVD/BD players hooked up with composite cables.

that wouldnt surprise me at all either. the picture is still probably 'better' than their previous TV or DVD player, so they think it's HD!

 

[Tyralak]

This is the entire reason that the DMCA exists. The "experts" that designed the encryption used in HDCP knew that it would be cracked one day (probably sooner than they expected). The DMCA is the other edge of the sword, with stiff fines and prison time for anyone convicted of circumventing the encryption. The algorithm itself doesn't have to be very good to be covered by DMCA.

You can't actually believe that. It looks like you've swallowed the big lie put you by these studios. The truth is far different. Do a little research about this abominable pantload of a law, the "DMCA", and the nature of fair use law. Ever since consumers won the important legal victory confirming the right of consumers to fair use of copyrighted material, such as time shifting, archiving, place shifting, etc. The content industry has been trying to find a way to subvert it. That weevil infested son of a syphlitic goat himself, Jack Valenti, said he considered time shifitng (i.e., VCR usage) "stealing". The general attitude of the content industry has been the same. They always have wanted to have complete control over when and how you use the content you paid for. So, what they did was pay off enough of those whores we call congressmen to pass this atrocious piece of pig excrement called the "DMCA". It basically said that yes, you have fair use rights, but you don't have the right to circumvent so-called "protections" in order to excersize those rights. Kind of like how in Cuba you have the legal right to acsess the internet, but it's illegal to own a personal computer. The EFF has won some important rulings preventing the implimentation of so-called "broadcast flags" However, it looks like the studios are trying to sneak this one in under the radar. I'd encourage you and anyone else to go to EFF.org and read up on this stuff, plus the abuses of the "DMCA" This law has been abused more times than it's been use properly. In fact, it was written to facilitate copyright abuse. I'm someone who hates piracy, however I'm very big on consumer rights, and individual liberty. This DRM crap is violating those rights.

 

[whatchel1]

Encouraging cracking the boxes

E* & D* need to realize that this is 1 of the major reasons for the demise of C-band. The providers forced the manufacturers to putting in de-scramblers. Then the public turned to hackers that (w/the help of back door leaks) cracked the boxes. If this is implemented it is going to encourage the boxes to be opened and hacked. I for one don't want to fo thru this shi* again. It was bad enuff back then. Allow the customer a fair deal and they will stay legal. Screw them and they will go to the people that will help then to stick it to the provider. E* have to start rolling codes to the rec's and maybe even issuing cards until it becomes ridiculous.

 

[Woofle]

EFF busy

Where the hell is the EFF on this? This kind of abuse by content companies needs to be litigated pronto.

Absolutely agreed, but it may be that the EFF is so busy trying to stop wholesale spying into every aspect of our lives that they're unable to mount quite as strong a response as would be ideal?

 

[Tyralak]

Absolutely agreed, but it may be that the EFF is so busy trying to stop wholesale spying into every aspect of our lives that they're unable to mount quite as strong a response as would be ideal?

Quite likely. They have a lot on their plates.

 

[ekilgus]

Except that the general populace (who watch stretched analog cable and think it's HD) probably can't tell the difference anyway. I'd even bet there's a lot of HD-DVD/BD players hooked up with composite cables.

I have come across a HDMI to componet converter box that claims to push the signal through to the TV in full 1080p. If I remember correctly, it had 2 HDMI ports so you could hook up your reciever and a HD type DVD player to it. I suppose this box fools the devices into thinking they're hooked upto the HDMI port on a TV. Only problem right now is that the particular device I was looking at was a bit pricey at around $350.

 

[David_Levin]

Dish has already stated that certain providers will have them flag content to not be moved to an external drive. That it can only reside on the DVR itself. So it's not inconceivable that it would be spread to the content viewing itself.

I missed this - can you provide a link.

Thanks

 

[Walker1]

It looks as if someone is forcing Dish to infect their HD streams with DRM. According to a memo we just received, very soon Dish will be sabotoging certain HD streams with so-called "DRM". So, we have been told to connect all HD receivers with HDMI, because at some point soon, certain HD channels will no longer be visible with component. This is going to be bad news for those HD customers who have older HD monitors or professional models which have no DVI or HDMI inputs. They will soon be cheated out of programming they pay for. I hope this is one of those false alarms that we receive and it never comes to pass, but somehow I doubt it. Get ready for fun times ahead with non-recordable events and time limits on recordings. 24hr PPV anyone? I really hope this is litigated. Dish wouldn't pull this kind of anti-consumer garbage unless they were being forced to by content providers. It doesn't serve any purpose for them.

Yes, and guess who is behind at least some of the push? HBO. I had cable a few mos. ago & if I used an HDMI hookup a screen popped up saying that I couldn't record any HD HBO programming and I was to use the old style connectors.

HBO was also the 1st one to scramble C-Band feeds. Their greed never ceases to amaze me. Isn't it enough that I pay for HBO? I think I'm entitled to copy HD programs on the 722.

 

[harshness]

I certainly will, Scott. If the non-movie networks start doing the same I am liable to just drop my TV provider all together...

Is it the distributor's fault that they meet their contractual agreements with the programming providers?

 

[old corps]

I have come across a HDMI to componet converter box that claims to push the signal through to the TV in full 1080p. If I remember correctly, it had 2 HDMI ports so you could hook up your reciever and a HD type DVD player to it. I suppose this box fools the devices into thinking they're hooked upto the HDMI port on a TV. Only problem right now is that the particular device I was looking at was a bit pricey at around $350.

I'm should be receiving a HDMI to component video/composite audio converter soon, hopefully tomorrow. It only has one HDMI port but was still plenty pricey for me. $188 shipped. My 65" HDRP Mitz is about 5 years old and has only component HD connections. I get great HD pq via component but also wanted to take advantage of my "upconversion" DVD player/recorder and possibly get a HD DVD or Blue Ray player when the price comes down. Also somewhat concerned about this DRM crap. It's supposed to be HDCP compliant. Now to see if it works as advertised??? Damn, it better!

Ed

 

[UGAChance]

I have come across a HDMI to componet converter box that claims to push the signal through to the TV in full 1080p. If I remember correctly, it had 2 HDMI ports so you could hook up your reciever and a HD type DVD player to it. I suppose this box fools the devices into thinking they're hooked upto the HDMI port on a TV. Only problem right now is that the particular device I was looking at was a bit pricey at around $350.

Monoprice sells something called DVI-Doctor ($55) that you hook up and store the EDID of your TV and then when you hook it up inline to something else... it always replies with your TV's EDID. So, the HDCP thinks it is "good."

For only $47.80 each when QTY 50+ purchased - DVI Doctor - Powered EDID Problem Solver | DVI EDID Adapter

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Introduction:
- The DVI Doctor reads and remembers the EDID of your display. Let your PC boot directly from DVI Doctor.

Features:
- Compliant with DVI specification 1.0
- Supports high-resolution display up to UXGA [25-165MHZ]

Installation:
1. Turn on display panel and connect it to the DVI-OUT on the DVI DOCTOR with DVI cable.
2. Plug the 5V power supply into the DVI DOCTOR. If LED stops blinking, it means DVI DOCTOR has finished reading the EDID of your display.
3. Unplug the 5V power supply. After programming, you won't need to plug the power adapter again into the DVI DOCTOR.
4. Connect PC to the DVI-IN on the DDX-01 with DVI cable.
5. Connect your HDMI/DVI switcher, ADC switcher, or DVI-DL between DVI DOCTOR and your display.[/FONT]

 

[old corps]

UGAChance-
Thanks for the reply but that won't do anything for a connection to a TELEVISION with only component inputs. I did see it on monoprice from which I've purchased cables several times from as well as a cheap manual HDMI switcher. Great place to do business with, super low prices and fast shipping!

Ed

 

[leo250]

dish will need to replace both my boxes since neither one has a working hdmi port.. oops..

I think the box replacement line might be long (my 211's HDMI port has not worked since last October).

 

[wonko]

Monoprice sells something called DVI-Doctor ($55) that you hook up and store the EDID of your TV and then when you hook it up inline to something else... it always replies with your TV's EDID. So, the HDCP thinks it is "good."

EDID has nothing to do with HDCP. EDID is a VESA specification for a monitor to specify its capabilities to the output device. That box is used if you have a DVI switcher and allows you to boot a computer while the monitor is switched over.