Another reason to hate Sony and their formats.

[JamesJ]

Here is a question for you AKo, Why are you pulling out graphics card comparisons? are we comparing Pc's? in all your research did you not find out its just based on Nvidia Architecture (main word there is BASED, its not same as being a RSX) Also how can we compare something when SPECS ARENT REALLY EVEN KNOWN!!! here is from a hardware break down

The RSX specs are largely undefined and unknown at this point, and I will refrain from even analyzing it too deeply if it comes to the clearly unknown aspects. The only information available has been around since E3 2005 and is likely to have changed since then. Various statements have been made after this point that compare the RSX to other graphics chips nVidia has made. Some press sources have used these statements to analyze the RSX as if they actually knew what it was or in a speculative manner, but readers should not forget that they simply do not know for sure. I have read a lot of those sources and am throwing out specific execution speed numbers and am focusing on the more likely final aspects of the RSX specs.

The only thing that can be said with a pretty high degree of certainty is that the RSX will have 256MB of GDDR3 video memory, access to the Cell’s 256MB XDR memory, and a fixed function shader pipeline – meaning dedicated vertex shader pipelines and dedicated pixel shader pipelines, as opposed to a unified shader architecture that the Xenos on the Xbox360 has. The RSX will also be connected to the Cell(and XDR memory) through the FlexIO interface.

Due to the nature of the SPEs on the Cell, there is quite an overlap in function concerning vertex processors on the RSX. It would be up to the programmer to decide where to accomplish those tasks depending on the flexibility they need, and what resources they have available to them. The Cell could also handle some post processing(pixel/frame buffer) effects if the Cell is better suited to run it than the RSX. This will probably not happen due to a frame buffer not being available until late in the rendering pipeline only for it to be taken out of the pipeline and put back in again. The Cell would have to significantly outperform the RSX for something like that to be beneficial.

Also you brought up data read speed, which is great, BUT you forgot to mention this one fact...EVERY Ps3 has a hard drive, which SOny planned this so developers (if they were smart) would do what is known as Data Hard Drive Caching so the load times and data read wouldnt really matter and this would wipe out any advantage that DVD 9 had, but I am sure you already knew that since you are so well educated, but just in case here is an article:

Optical Media Drive:
You know it was going to come up – Blue Ray vs DVD9. This isn’t really a fair versus. Blue-ray is superior to DVD9 in almost every respect. The only disadvantage Playstation 3 has in this respect is data read speed. The 2x BD read speed is considerably slower than the 12x DVD read speed. The difference is between 72mbps vs ~130mbps, which in terms of common data rates known in the computer world are 8.6MB/s and 15.4MB/s. Should PS3 fans worry about their load times? I don’t think so as this is still higher than Playstation 2’s read speed, and since the hard drive is standard on Playstation 3, this will be large motivation for developers to use hard drive caching methods as a standard feature to avoid load times wherever they may be present.

The clear advantage of blu-ray is capacity and the possibility of playing the next generation standard for HD movie content. Blu-ray has a good outlook at becoming the next generation standard for movies as Hollywood has strong support for Blu-Ray. If it the format happens to succeed on this front, then a bonus functionality features is evident on the Playstation 3 console. Otherwise, the use of blu-ray in the Playstation 3 is limited to blu-ray capacity.

Capacity for games is where the bigger debate still exists between blu-ray and DVD9 with respect to the console war. Will blu-ray be needed for this next generation? I can’t say it will be needed by any genre except any games that will decide to include HD FMV sequences. But that speculation is under the current way things are looking now. In a few years, or 5 years, that could easily change and the space for blu-ray media may turn out to be very useful for certain game genres or implementations. Right now, you can’t make too strong of an argument for blu-ray being needed for the capacity of games other than convenience of what can be included on a single disc. Some developers may take advantage of the extra space for features or purposes not central to game play or visual quality.

anything else I can help you on?

 

[JamesJ]

You know what the PS3 has, The Cell processor. and OMG it's powerful. And thats why my signature is my signature.

I'll go ahead and make the arguments for you since you are struggling so badly.

PS3 RSX core is 50mhz faster than the Xenon. This 50MHZ makes 10% quicker. But is older generation core. Kinda like using a 2.4 ghz P4 vs using a 2.0 ghz Core duo. But it is faster.

PS3 has more room for bigger games, In other words because I am to lazy to change disks every 20-40 hours of game play I should put up with a slower read time.

The controllers use blue tooth and the batteries are included. And when the batteries die (all lithium ions do). you will have to buy a new controller. and Sony didn't even bother to put rumble in it.

The PS controllers always have felt the best. You know what I'll give you the nod on this one. Although my favorite controller so far has been the old Xbox 1 Duke controler, Mainly because I have huge hands though.

Six-axes is teh bomb man. Well maybe. If they made a game that utilized it properly. this is where the Wii struggles as well. But the Wii is a bit more dedicated to motion control.

Controllers wear out in 3 years, guess what I have gone through 2 360 controllers to my ORIGINAL ps3 controller, thats not a factor, but you are just trying to dig dirt now. Also RUmble is in the new controllers, are you reading old data? Also have you played PS3 games? warhawk is good with sixaxis, plus right now its not being used as much and in the case of Drakes Fortune it actually is kinda a cool "gimmick" but I am guessing you wouldnt know that in your anti Sony forums

(also I am enjoying this debate, keep it up, I got plenty to shut down whatever you bring to the table, its a slow day at work here in sony studios, just like it is their in Microsoft headquarters for you )

 

[akodoreign]

Here is a question for you AKo, Why are you pulling out graphics card comparisons? are we comparing Pc's? in all your research did you not find out its just based on Nvidia Architecture (main word there is BASED, its not same as being a RSX) Also how can we compare something when SPECS ARENT REALLY EVEN KNOWN!!! here is from a hardware break down




Also you brought up data read speed, which is great, BUT you forgot to mention this one fact...EVERY Ps3 has a hard drive, which SOny planned this so developers (if they were smart) would do what is known as Data Hard Drive Caching so the load times and data read wouldnt really matter and this would wipe out any advantage that DVD 9 had, but I am sure you already knew that since you are so well educated, but just in case here is an article:
anything else I can help you on?

Plenty you can help me on since the article you used is old as dirt and specs have clearly been defined.

And yes these consoles are computers.

MS didn't make HD mandatory so they could offer a lower cost SKU right out of the gate. Not the best choice by any means. Mass Effect could defiantly use that caching. But I would hate to see the load times on Mass Effect using a HD-DVD or Blue Ray drive. *shudder*.

And thank you for acknowledging my education. I will give you an E for effort this time.

 

[akodoreign]

Controllers wear out in 3 years, guess what I have gone through 2 360 controllers to my ORIGINAL ps3 controller, thats not a factor, but you are just trying to dig dirt now. Also RUmble is in the new controllers, are you reading old data? Also have you played PS3 games? warhawk is good with sixaxis, plus right now its not being used as much and in the case of Drakes Fortune it actually is kinda a cool "gimmick" but I am guessing you wouldnt know that in your anti Sony forums

(also I am enjoying this debate, keep it up, I got plenty to shut down whatever you bring to the table, its a slow day at work here in sony studios, just like it is their in Microsoft headquarters for you )

I wish I worked at MS (they pay good from what I hear). but there ya go again. I have clearly stated that I also Support the Wii. Glad you work for Sony.

and you have shut down nothing. And you probably broke more 360 controllers because it gets more use.

And Drakes fortune.. that looks cool. Good you have a game for the holidays.

PS3, Wii and Xbox 360 Confimed Exclusives - November 2007 | Continues, Titles, Consoles, Comes, Wii | Wii-volution
I went broke trying to buy all the releases this Christmas for the 360.

Still need DBZ Tenkiachi 3 for the Wii though. Rockband (which can use the previous guitars on the 360, but not the PS3 Activision blocking Guitar Hero III axes from working in Rock Band - Engadget) Set me back a bit.

 

[Ronnie-]

Then go ahead give me the other side. From the 3 points I brought up.

Not even going to make you defend Sony BMG. thats how generous I am.

Let me clarify. Certain specs can be brought out to spin an argument whichever way you want to. You chose those, someone else may chose another. Some of yours dont "show" anything to prove what you have been saying either. Sure DVD9 is faster vs the blu-ray drive in the PS3, but how would that fact make the PS3 horrible?

Your many statements about the graphics card is valid, sure, but i have yet to see on gameplay how this has hurt. THe graphics are on par with any other system that it competes against.

 

[JamesJ]

hmmmmm last check it still isnt 100% known what the RSX can do....also about the Load times you keep forgetting about the chache....I think MAss effect would run real well on the PS3 if it was programmed right, just like alot of games do (and there are ALOT that dont due to Poor programming) and no I didnt break the 360 controllers due to more use, as my right stick is not reading properly on one of the broken ones, and the thumb pad just plan wore out after two weeks on the other (its called mass production equipment it happens) you missed my point of Conrtollers break and I doubt anyone cares about their battery wearing out on the PS3 as that will be 3 years down the road, and they will probably have a new controller by then anyways, jeez how many xbox and PS2 controllers did i go through with normal use. Also about great games for the holiday I have a bunch Unreal tournament, Drakes, Halo 3, Mario Galaxy, I dont see the PS3 lacking in software titles...just curious how many exclusives the 360 had at this time in its lifespan, also this is a blu ray HD DVD section, we should probably move this to the game section if we want to keep comparing or create a new thread altogether. plus bring facts to back up your statements as right now you are just throwing statements out their with no proof.

EDIT: I will say this and I am done with the whole video game thing....Yes the PS3 has a sorta weaker video card, yes the DATA READ speed isnt that good, but you are forgetting the ps3 was designed to work not as individual graphics. cpu, Disk Drive, and Hard drive, but as one machine, which gives it its power....I am a asupporter of all three and think truthfully it be known the 360 and ps3 are alot more alike then people want to give them credit for once its all said and done, I am just doing this to prove a point of there is NO reason to HAte a company and bash them.

 

[akodoreign]

Let me clarify. Certain specs can be brought out to spin an argument whichever way you want to. You chose those, someone else may chose another. Some of yours dont "show" anything to prove what you have been saying either. Sure DVD9 is faster vs the blu-ray drive in the PS3, but how would that fact make the PS3 horrible?

Your many statements about the graphics card is valid, sure, but i have yet to see on gameplay how this has hurt. THe graphics are on par with any other system that it competes against.

Actually both the PS3 and the 360 blow the Wii away in graphics, and sound.

But the PS3 should have been a lot more. Sony dropped the ball. The system for what it was hyped to be. Is Crap. Pretty simple statement.

Now is it a good Blue Ray player. Sure. Because that was what they designed it to be. Squaresoft even says they need to define weather it is a player or a gaming system.

And Squaresoft is a HUGE Sony supporter.

 

[akodoreign]

hmmmmm last check it still isnt 100% known what the RSX can do....also about the Load times you keep forgetting about the chache....I think MAss effect would run real well on the PS3 if it was programmed right, just like alot of games do (and there are ALOT that dont due to Poor programming) and no I didnt break the 360 controllers due to more use, as my right stick is not reading properly on one of the broken ones, and the thumb pad just plan wore out after two weeks on the other (its called mass production equipment it happens) you missed my point of Conrtollers break and I doubt anyone cares about their battery wearing out on the PS3 as that will be 3 years down the road, and they will probably have a new controller by then anyways, jeez how many xbox and PS2 controllers did i go through with normal use. Also about great games for the holiday I have a bunch Unreal tournament, Drakes, Halo 3, Mario Galaxy, I dont see the PS3 lacking in software titles...just curious how many exclusives the 360 had at this time in its lifespan, also this is a blu ray HD DVD section, we should probably move this to the game section if we want to keep comparing or create a new thread altogether. plus bring facts to back up your statements as right now you are just throwing statements out their with no proof.

I posted plenty of links earlier that back up what I said (in this posting) But here ya go PlayStation 3 vs. Xbox 360: Tech Head-to-Head - GameSpot Tech - Computers, Video Cards, Monitors, Laptops, Cell Phones, Home Theater and more

*shrug* your itching for a fight. I respect that.

Well not clearly defined as I thought on that one. And looks like the Cell does make a difference. Not the first time in my life I have been wrong. Kudos to you on that one.

Ah here we go. Platform Comparison - PS3 Vs Xbox 360: GPU Specs

I thought I had read something more recent.

UPDATE: RSX figures were updated to represent GeForce 7 based architecture with 24 pixel pipelines, 8 vertex pipelines, 8 ROPS, 500MHz core, and 650MHz memory. In other words, it dropped from 550MHz/700MHz to 500MHz/650MHz.

Interesting read pr0cs: More RSX vs Xenos war notes

 

[JamesJ]

you got me all wrong, I dont fight with people or get mad, I just prove that really in cases like this what they are saying isnt true..and I am not trying to be rude when I say that at all, I respect that you are a microsoft man, or an anti sony man is better to say. You just have to realize that the facts that you are bringing to the table work when looking at the small picture. I will admit you are right saying it the way you are saying it, but again the PS3 is meant to run and work together, and when it does that it really is a impressive machine and is alot better then you are leading people to believe...but so is the 360 and also I guess the wii in its form!

 

[Ronnie-]

Actually both the PS3 and the 360 blow the Wii away in graphics, and sound.

But the PS3 should have been a lot more. Sony dropped the ball. The system for what it was hyped to be. Is Crap. Pretty simple statement.

Now is it a good Blue Ray player. Sure. Because that was what they designed it to be. Squaresoft even says they need to define weather it is a player or a gaming system.

And Squaresoft is a HUGE Sony supporter.

No doubt they are better than the Wii graphically, yet the Wii outsells them both. Why? Graphics are not EVERYTHING like people used to think they were. They help sure, but there are other factors that equate to actual fun.
Which is why i stated before that the PS3 will eventually be the best all around system out there. It has hints of both of the others with alot of original stuff also. It isnt the best right now, and mainly because of a lack of games available. That will change when programmers learn to better utilize the power that is available in the machine.

The fact is, it is both.

 

[Ronnie-]

You just have to realize that the facts that you are bringing to the table work when looking at the small picture. I will admit you are right saying it the way you are saying it, but again the PS3 is meant to run and work together, and when it does that it really is a impressive machine and is alot better then you are leading people to believe...but so is the 360 and also I guess the wii in its form!

That is my whole point. You cant just take one point (or three in this case) and harp on it to make your whole argument true. It just does not work that way.

 

[Ronnie-]

Well not clearly defined as I thought on that one. And looks like the Cell does make a difference. Not the first time in my life I have been wrong. Kudos to you on that one.

.

Onuos pointed that out to you before, either here or in another thread.

 

[Ronnie-]

Ah here we go. Platform Comparison - PS3 Vs Xbox 360: GPU Specs

You do know that is a forum, much like this one. You cited him as a source, what were his? That proves nothing

Also that thread was in June 2006!!!! Before the PS3 even came out.

 

[akodoreign]

you got me all wrong, I dont fight with people or get mad, I just prove that really in cases like this what they are saying isnt true..and I am not trying to be rude when I say that at all, I respect that you are a microsoft man, or an anti sony man is better to say. You just have to realize that the facts that you are bringing to the table work when looking at the small picture. I will admit you are right saying it the way you are saying it, but again the PS3 is meant to run and work together, and when it does that it really is a impressive machine and is alot better then you are leading people to believe...but so is the 360 and also I guess the wii in its form!

Quite possibly the best post of the day. I will have anti-sony bias (I am not pro MS, but I do enjoy their product, But I love my Wii as well. )

I think my point is that ultimately Sony could have done better, They had the architecture to do better, but wanted to save Blue Ray so rushed the product out. They could have worked harder to get the Cell to do all the graphics processing as some IBM raster machines do. and there wouldn't be a bottle neck.

And thats what bothers me most about it.

 

[akodoreign]

You do know that is a forum, much like this one. You cited him as a source, what were his? That proves nothing

I am just posting things I found interesting while looking it up. Don't get offended. I already admitted the Cell seemed to help according to that one page.

You ever back down? on anything?

I have a friend just like you Ryan Wetherell, He doesn't even say sorry or ever admit he's wrong ever. It's like he thinks his poop smells like roses or something. LOL

Going to try to pigenhole you here. Would you happen to be Right wing conservative?

 

[IcEWoLF]

Quite possibly the best post of the day. I will have anti-sony bias (I am not pro MS, but I do enjoy their product, But I love my Wii as well. )

I think my point is that ultimately Sony could have done better, They had the architecture to do better, but wanted to save Blue Ray so rushed the product out.

And thats what bothers me most about it.

Rushed the product out? I think it was well done, I haven't been disappointed in their graphics nor their processing.
The Blu-ray player works like a charm, and my PS3 runs quiet, and I love the sixaxis controller.

 

[akodoreign]

Rushed the product out? I think it was well done, I haven't been disappointed in their graphics nor their processing.
The Blu-ray player works like a charm, and my PS3 runs quiet, and I love the sixaxis controller.

Yup figured you would but in at this point, and I respect the fact you love your gaming machine, I Just don't, Sorry.



Remember what they say about opinions and buttholes. everyone has one just some are larger than others.

 

[JamesJ]

Yup figured you would but in at this point, and I respect the fact you love your gaming machine, I Just don't, Sorry.



Remember what they say about opinions and buttholes. everyone has one just some are larger than others.

which one are you? I kid I kid you know I am just trying to loosen this up a little now

 

[akodoreign]

which one are you? I kid I kid you know I am just trying to loosen this up a little now

Thanks, And I can be a huge Butthole. LOL, I try never to be hidden about anything.

And I have always apologized when proven wrong.

he he. But I think I will switch this back to a Debate on if the RIAA (see I even edited out Sony) trying to take our free rights away.

(I wont back down from my arguments, just kinda wanna see how people feel about Fair use and Digital rights management.)

 

[Ronnie-]

I am just posting things I found interesting while looking it up. Don't get offended. I already admitted the Cell seemed to help according to that one page.

You ever back down? on anything?

I have a friend just like you Ryan Wetherell, He doesn't even say sorry or ever admit he's wrong ever. It's like he thinks his poop smells like roses or something. LOL

Going to try to pigenhole you here. Would you happen to be Right wing conservative?

Keep posting things like that to back up your argument and i wont have to back down.