Alex Rodriguez tests positive for steroids and now ADMITS it

[BlackHitachi]

I think the "whites only" era of Baseball is a far worse stain on the game than the "steroid" era. We might just be talking about Josh Gibson and not Babe Ruth.

I read Mike Schmidt book, why are the lovable 1970's not consider tainted, I mean aren't amphetamines performance enhancing?

Now congress wants A-rod to testify? JC, you guys are about to bankrupt this country and this is what you are thinking about.

Oh most defendant with out question this was a much bigger stain!:up

 

[HD MM]

Ok guys. I don't want to be the only source. Check out SI this afternoon . Another major event is about to break

Ok Chief, I think we're all still waiting for this "insider info" you claimed to be released yesterday. Looks like you were way off, yet again.

 

[salsadancer7]

This is a small segment from what I consider THE BEST baseball website there is when it comes to reporting about the game....Baseballprospectus.com:

The failure was in not destroying the materials involved—samples, results, and documentation—once they'd served their purpose. Once the survey testing showed more than five percent positives, the new testing regime was put into place for 2004, and the 2003 tests were no longer needed. Destroying the materials does require a specific request to the labs, and it appears that no one at MLB or the MLBPA made that request, which is where they failed. It does appear that those entities were unaware that the tests weren't anonymous; the mistake was in allowing the materials to exist long after they were needed, long enough for them to be discovered. Once the government had the information, of course, it was just a matter of time before that information would be leaked. It is inevitable that we'll have the other 103 names in time, and just as inevitable that while all 104 will have done the same thing, only the successful ones will be treated harshly.

I don't really care that Alex Rodriguez used steroids. There was a time, not very long ago, that I thought the issue of PEDs in baseball was overblown because use was overstated. Now, I think that use was common, with some significant number of players regularly using steroids in an effort to become better at that craft, and a larger number at least trying them out for a period of time. I remain skeptical that PED use is connected to performance in a way that warps the game, a conclusion supported by the evidence that proven use is mixed among hitters and pitchers, among good players and fringe ones, among the strong and the skinny. The establishment of a testing program with penalties does appear to have been a deterrent, as evidenced by the drop from 104 positives in 2003 to fewer than that number in total in the five years since.

What interests me is the process, and the abuses we've seen. In 2002, the players agreed to anonymous testing in an effort to eradicate a problem, part of a process that created the first CBA arrived at without a work stoppage in decades. This should have been an absolute good. Instead, because of a failure of the MLBPA to tend to details, an out-of-control investigation and prosecution led by an IRS agent, and the government's inability to protect the sanctity of information, 104 players will have their promised anonymity taken away with nothing given in return.

It's not enough to say, "Tough, they cheated." Even cheaters have rights to see their agreements honored, and these 104 men have been violated by their representatives and their government, complicit with a media that repeatedly asks the easy questions and takes on the soft targets while avoiding the real work of uncovering not just names, but truth. The story is bigger than Alex Rodriguez. It's more interesting than Alex Rodriguez. It has more depth and more nuance than the failure of one man to play by the rules.

Tell that story, in a measured voice that embraces complexity, and I'll listen. Until then, it's all just screaming.

Joe Sheehan is an author of Baseball Prospectus

Baseball Prospectus | Prospectus Today: Stupid Media Tricks

 

[salsadancer7]

Here is Marvin Miller's very interesting take on all this A-Rod and steriods take:

"I would never have agreed to any testing program in the first place," he said. "There's no evidence that's plausible to justify testing people indiscriminately. If the government wanted to do that, they'd have to go to court for each player tested and say, 'Here's evidence of probable cause that this player is a user of an illegal product.'"

Miller took several other hard-line and potentially unpopular stands during a 40-minute interview with ESPN.com. Among his other observations:

• On the issue of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball: "I have a personal belief that there's no such thing as a magic pill or magic injection. I don't know that there's any scientific evidence that there's a performance-enhancing drug. Players take it because they think it does. That's a far cry from saying that it does. Where is the evidence that requires testing?"

• On the argument that steroids should be eliminated from the game because of health concerns: "Not one but two surgeons general have said that tobacco use is the worst cause of death in the United States that can be prevented -- that we lose 400,000 people a year to tobacco-related incidents and over time it runs into the millions. Yet not only do we not outlaw tobacco, but the U.S. Congress keeps giving subsidies to the tobacco industry and everybody sits back and smiles. On the other hand, there's not one single documented death from the use of steroids. So that's a hypocritical lie."

• On the dangers of taking drug test results as gospel: "Anybody who has read about urine testing for a long time knows that quite a number of false positives come up. You get a false positive and then people are questioned in another context -- 'were you a user?' They say no. And then you get a news leak -- a leak of a leak, as it were -- and it turns out that you tested positive. If you said something under oath, you could go to jail and still be an innocent person."

• On why the union didn't necessarily have to bend to the wishes of membership and agree to random drug testing. "I have no doubt that was a factor in the union agreeing to it. But leadership can't just take a poll on what membership wants. You also have to judge whether this is in the best interests of the people you represent. If the entire membership voted unanimously to disband, would you do it?"

• On the media's role in perpetuating steroid use by referring to the drugs as "performance enhancers": "A kid who would love to be a professional athlete reads the sports pages or watches ESPN and is told over and over again, 'These are performance-enhancing drugs. They will make you a Barry Bonds or an A-Rod or a Roger Clemens.' The media, without evidence, keep telling young people all over the country, 'All you have to do to be a famous athlete with lots of money is take steroids.' The media are the greatest merchants of encouraging this that I've ever seen."

Miller also criticized the Justice Department for engaging in "union-busting tactics" by using the confidentiality provision in the drug testing to get information from players, and said many of the "experts" who advocate for greater testing in sports have an inherent conflict because they run labs and stand to profit.

"It's a witch hunt in baseball, for sure, but it also extends to cycling and the Olympics," Miller said. "And the victims are the athletes. They're obviously the ones being hunted down here."

Jerry Crasnick covers baseball for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3896888"]Ex-baseball union boss Marvin Miller blasts 'witch hunt' - ESPN[/ame]

 

[Vic_Mackey]

I think I am starting to side with the players, than Marvin Miller opens his pie hole and makes me rethink my stand.

If he thinks that no deaths have resulted from steroids, than he lives in his own world.

Also Marvin have you ever heard of Brady Anderson? If it didn't help, no matter how little, no one would even take them.

"union-busting" ok Yeah the MLBPA is the same as the UAW, get some persecutive Marvin!

 

[salsadancer7]

I think I am starting to side with the players, than Marvin Miller opens his pie hole and makes me rethink my stand.

If he thinks that no deaths have resulted from steroids, than he lives in his own world.

Also Marvin have you ever heard of Brady Anderson? If it didn't help, no matter how little, no one would even take them.

"union-busting" ok Yeah the MLBPA is the same as the UAW, get some persecutive Marvin!

I heard him yesterday and for a little while on a local sport radio show, I thought he was going senile until he made a statement that caught my attention and I did some research and he was 100% accurate. There has NEVER been any scientific experiment of ANY KIND that has be conducted to either prove or disprove the steroids makes you a better player OR significantly improve your stats. They asked him what would need to be done to either prove or disprove it. He said that you get a few ballplayers and give them steroids and another set of players and give them placebo and follow how they perform day-to-day under supervision in the major leagues.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I heard him yesterday and for a little while on a local sport radio show, I thought he was going senile until he made a statement that caught my attention and I did some research and he was 100% accurate. There has NEVER been any scientific experiment of ANY KIND that has be conducted to either prove or disprove the steroids makes you a better player OR significantly improve your stats. They asked him what would need to be done to either prove or disprove it. He said that you get a few ballplayers and give them steroids and another set of players and give them placebo and follow how they perform day-to-day under supervision in the major leagues.

I'll repeat here what I said in Sandra's thread:

If PEDs did not help these athletes in some way, then why would they bother taking them?

As for a "scientific experiment", here are a couple of interesting reports that analyze some baseball statistics from before and during the steroid era:

http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/rjmorgan/mba211/Steroids%20and%20Major%20League%20Baseball.pdf

http://webspace.maritime.edu/advexpo/essays/steroids.pdf

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Here is Marvin Miller's very interesting take on all this A-Rod and steriods take:

"I would never have agreed to any testing program in the first place," he said. "There's no evidence that's plausible to justify testing people indiscriminately. If the government wanted to do that, they'd have to go to court for each player tested and say, 'Here's evidence of probable cause that this player is a user of an illegal product.'"

Miller took several other hard-line and potentially unpopular stands during a 40-minute interview with ESPN.com. Among his other observations:

• On the issue of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball: "I have a personal belief that there's no such thing as a magic pill or magic injection. I don't know that there's any scientific evidence that there's a performance-enhancing drug. Players take it because they think it does. That's a far cry from saying that it does. Where is the evidence that requires testing?"

• On the argument that steroids should be eliminated from the game because of health concerns: "Not one but two surgeons general have said that tobacco use is the worst cause of death in the United States that can be prevented -- that we lose 400,000 people a year to tobacco-related incidents and over time it runs into the millions. Yet not only do we not outlaw tobacco, but the U.S. Congress keeps giving subsidies to the tobacco industry and everybody sits back and smiles. On the other hand, there's not one single documented death from the use of steroids. So that's a hypocritical lie."

• On the dangers of taking drug test results as gospel: "Anybody who has read about urine testing for a long time knows that quite a number of false positives come up. You get a false positive and then people are questioned in another context -- 'were you a user?' They say no. And then you get a news leak -- a leak of a leak, as it were -- and it turns out that you tested positive. If you said something under oath, you could go to jail and still be an innocent person."

• On why the union didn't necessarily have to bend to the wishes of membership and agree to random drug testing. "I have no doubt that was a factor in the union agreeing to it. But leadership can't just take a poll on what membership wants. You also have to judge whether this is in the best interests of the people you represent. If the entire membership voted unanimously to disband, would you do it?"

• On the media's role in perpetuating steroid use by referring to the drugs as "performance enhancers": "A kid who would love to be a professional athlete reads the sports pages or watches ESPN and is told over and over again, 'These are performance-enhancing drugs. They will make you a Barry Bonds or an A-Rod or a Roger Clemens.' The media, without evidence, keep telling young people all over the country, 'All you have to do to be a famous athlete with lots of money is take steroids.' The media are the greatest merchants of encouraging this that I've ever seen."

Miller also criticized the Justice Department for engaging in "union-busting tactics" by using the confidentiality provision in the drug testing to get information from players, and said many of the "experts" who advocate for greater testing in sports have an inherent conflict because they run labs and stand to profit.

"It's a witch hunt in baseball, for sure, but it also extends to cycling and the Olympics," Miller said. "And the victims are the athletes. They're obviously the ones being hunted down here."

Jerry Crasnick covers baseball for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Ex-baseball union boss Marvin Miller blasts 'witch hunt' - ESPN

Marvin Miller could have "spun" Watergate. Puhleeeeze!

 

[Paul Wozniak]

The union would have agreed to standards and tests that would have eliminated steroids from baseball if it thought it was in their best interests. Canseco stated that he thought 75% of the players were taking them. Easy to see why the union has fought this. Majority rules.

 

[salsadancer7]

I'll repeat here what I said in Sandra's thread:

If PEDs did not help these athletes in some way, then why would they bother taking them?

As for a "scientific experiment", here are a couple of interesting reports that analyze some baseball statistics from before and during the steroid era:

http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/rjmorgan/mba211/Steroids%20and%20Major%20League%20Baseball.pdf

http://webspace.maritime.edu/advexpo/essays/steroids.pdf

They DID help, but for all the reason you might NOT think. To extend their careers mostly...add a few years of extra seasons and you add more to the bank account.
And these guys are competitive by nature....if they see a guy doing them and their is a chance they may left out of the 25 man roster.....they will do them.

 

[televisionarchives]

FYI, If you guys think 104 players tested positive, you're wrong.

Al Leiter did a phone interview yesterday. Leiter was one of the player reps who was involved in working out the testing agreement. He wanted to clarify that there are not 104 players who tested positive. There were 104 positive *results*, according to him. Those positives include re-tests on some of the players who tested positive the first time. He didn't give an exact number as to how many individuals' tested positive.

So it cold have been 60 players. Either way Arod was one who test positive more then once.

 

[salsadancer7]

FYI, If you guys think 104 players tested positive, you're wrong.

Al Leiter did a phone interview yesterday. Leiter was one of the player reps who was involved in working out the testing agreement. He wanted to clarify that there are not 104 players who tested positive. There were 104 positive *results*, according to him. Those positives include re-tests on some of the players who tested positive the first time. He didn't give an exact number as to how many individuals' tested positive.

So it cold have been 60 players. Either way Arod was one who test positive more then once.

On this one I agree with you. He was on one of the local stations stating the same thing.

 

[HD MM]

104 names tested positive. But that's not the shocking part.

It's that all of these players knew that there was a chance they would be tested later than season too, but still tested positive. In addition it's been reported that some of the players were tipped off in advance of the test.

So, I really think it's safe to say 104 was a lite number. Take all the other variables away and I think this number is much higher.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

104 names tested positive. But that's not the shocking part.

It's that all of these players knew that there was a chance they would be tested later than season too, but still tested positive. In addition it's been reported that some of the players were tipped off in advance of the test.

So, I really think it's safe to say 104 was a lite number. Take all the other variables away and I think this number is much higher.

I know the players were warned of testing in 2003, knowing there would be no penalties for positive results. I thought the controversy about tipping players off happened in 2004 when positive results would have faced discipline.

 

[televisionarchives]

I know the players were warned of testing in 2003, knowing there would be no penalties for positive results. I thought the controversy about tipping players off happened in 2004 when positive results would have faced discipline.

Sometimes a positive result will come back from a lab by mistake. They could have done a second test on 52 positive results.

Either way, Arod used steroids . I don't believe he was tipped off in 2003. And don't believe for one second his version on why he stopped. He did not stop in 2003 either. He talked to someone that gave him advice . Tell Gammons you only juiced in Texas.

Give me a break , Afraud.

 

[SabresRule]

104 names tested positive. But that's not the shocking part.

It's that all of these players knew that there was a chance they would be tested later than season too, but still tested positive. In addition it's been reported that some of the players were tipped off in advance of the test.

So, I really think it's safe to say 104 was a lite number. Take all the other variables away and I think this number is much higher.

If any of the other 103 are named, just hope thatnone of them had Indians ties.

 

[Skyhi]

If any of the other 103 are named, just hope thatnone of them had Indians ties.

*cough*pronk*cough*...Lets hope not!

 

[Paul Wozniak]

With 9 years left on his contract, can A-Roid redeem himself in the public's eye? I wonder how I'll feel about this 15 years down the road when his name comes up for the HOF. It's a long time from now and a lot of things will change during that short period. I suspect my opinion will not change. Can't say for sure.

 

[televisionarchives]

If any of the other 103 are named, just hope thatnone of them had Indians ties.

It's not 103 players. The 104 count included the same players that were retested. That according to Al Leiter .

 

[HD MM]

*cough*pronk*cough*...Lets hope not!

Yeah, that would be my first guess. But Salsa said players take them to "heal quicker." Pronk has trouble staying healthy, so this would prove against this theory.

BTW, the only person on the Indians active roster that has ever had 'roid relations so far was reliever Rafael Betencourt.

Personally, I'd be crushed if I ever found out Grady Sizemore used. He always seemed to be one of the few guys who play the game the right way.