Zero Quality Signal--Have tried everything I can

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Please reply by conversation.
If the motor must be bumped to peak on most satellites, this usually indicates that the alignment is slightly off. This could be the motor latitude, dish mounting onto the motor or even a LNBF arm that is slightly out of the sweet focal point. You might also notice that there is play in either the motor shaft, dish mounting bracket or in the the LNBF arm. Make sure that all the hardware is snugged down and the motor tube backlash is properly tensioned.

It is not uncommon to bump on an occasional satellite, as they are constantly drifting within a 1 degree box in the arc. I find that there usually is one or two satellites that can be peaked in my set-up.

USALS calculations on the GEOSATpro receivers are extremely accurate. USALS tracking errors usually are a result of mechanical error. GEOSATpro receivers are unique in that they allow the user to overwrite the calculated position if desired and save the position in the receiver rather than in the motor as with DiSEqC 1.2 settings. If you wish to override the USALS position of a few satellites on the GEOSATpro DSR100c, DSR200c and the DVR1100c receivers, leave the motor in USALS mode, but bump and save the corrected position. This way you will not need to bump the dish each time you land on a particular satellite and these offsets are stored if you perform a channel list back-up.
TMB,

I may have to recant a portion of my last reply to you. Regarding your very first question about "STORE POSITION" I want you to read what Brian Gohl from Satellite AV states in this thread...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/free-air-fta-discussion/209132-uasls-vs-diseqc.html

It's about the 4th or 5th post into the discussion.

I was unaware that this was an option, but it evidentally is and therefore, I stand corrected on this issue.

RADAR
I've copy/pasted Brian's post so people don't have to jump around to see what's being said.
Boy, I would have said the same thing you did on this. I am very surprised at this, and very curious about how it is implimented, because if it is not implimented in a logical way, it could create a mess in your sat setup.

But first, since he's saying is that this STORE POSITION command is saving the position in the receiver, it could be that the receiver is either altering the sat's position or the lat/lon of the user. I assume that it would be easier to do with the sat's position, although depending on the cause of the need for adjustment, the user's position could be the better way, if applied across the arc.

I'm kind of curious how the receiver accomplishes this. I've seen receivers that have a bump command in the USALS menu, but I've always assumed that this just used regular diseqC-1.2 commands. If these receivers are able do what he says, it would be a relatively complicated calculation to back convert the diseqC-1.2 bump back into a sat position, as it would be sort of a reverse USALS angle calculation. I'm guessing that what the receiver is doing is when you do a bump, that it isn't using the diseqC-1.2 bump, but is instead changing the desired sat position by the minimum angle step, then doing the USALS calculation and sending another USALS command, then if you store the position, I assume that it's saving a different sat position, perhaps 1/10th degree off the original sat position??? Just my guess at the easiest way for the receiver to do this.

However, my concern is that I really hope that the user can see the changes, and not that the receiver somehow keeps this saved where the user can't get to it. Ie, question to anyone with these receivers who has tried this... if you do this USALS bump, on say the 125 deg sat, then save the position, is the sat position now automatically saved as say 125.1, or something like that? Ie I HOPE that the receiver does this in a way that you can get back to the correct position again rather than having some hidden offset that you don't have access to. I'm assuming that these receivers show the altered sat position, since otherwise this would end up in disaster, often requirring a complete reset to factory conditions.

My Diamond 9000 has a "move" {same as bump}, and "save" command in the USALS section, but if you save after a move, it doesn't actually save the altered sat position (which I'm glad is the case). I just tried to make sure. If these geosat receivers actually save the position, that could lead to a confused setup, if you later discover and correct the original problem causing the need for bumping the position. Ie you'd have to go back and put all the sat positions back on their correct positions.

I dissagree slightly with a couple things Brian said though. I don't think that the satellite boxes are as big as the 1 degree. The most I've seen the sats move around is usually a tenth or two of a degree in each direction. I've never seen a sat off position by a half degree as he suggests. A 2/10 degree variation can hardly be noticed by a 3' dish on Ku band, and wouldn't be enough to warrant a position change, particularly because the next time you went to the sat, it would probably be back to where it was earlier anyway.

If bumping of more than 1/10 is required, I'd really suspect that there is some other problem. I partially agree, and partially disagree with something else Brian said, ie the part about "If the motor must be bumped to peak on most satellites, this usually indicates that the alignment is slightly off." I would tend to agree with this if, and only if 80% of the sats cannot be bumped into good reception. Basically, if you can bump your motor to where you are getting maximum signal (verified by not being able to improve signal by lifting or pulling down on the dish), then, you are on the arc, and it is NOT a situation of the alignment being off. If all sats seem to be off by about the same amount, then it is a clear indication that you are out of sync, not out of alignment. This happens to me when the zero (reference) position on my motor gets changed. An out of sync condition can be temporarily fixed by changing the longitude of the user's position, and then that will be applied to all sats. However it is best fixed by doing a hard reset on the motor after manually moving it to zero (assuming that the motor has this function), or by doing a diseqC-1.2 resync command {assuming that this will apply to USALS calculations too}.

If the bumps requirred do NOT seem to be the same across the arc, then the other likely cause, which Brian mentions, is "that there is play in either the motor shaft,". You can sometimes recognize this by noticing that when approaching a sat from the east, that you may need to bump in one direction, but when approaching a sat from the west, you need to bump in the other direction. If this is the case, some motors have a way to tighten up the gears and minimize the free play.

The only time I'd really blame the need for bumping on lack of alignment is when the bumping never results on the real maximum signal, ie after peaking, you can go outside and improve signal by lifting or pulling on the dish.

But anyway, I find it interesting that these receivers would have the "feature" of allowing you to alter the sat position automatically, mainly because the need for this bumping is generally an indication that something is wrong with the hardware, the sync of the hardware, or alignment. If numerous bumps and saves are requirred, I really think it's easier and better to use diseqC-1.2 . On MY little dish, I generally use USALS to find sats, then switch to diseqC-1.2 to bump to a maximum, then save via diseqC-1.2. If the requirred adjustment gets significant, usually across the arc, then I go outside and re-sync the motor via a reset.
 
I've copy/pasted Brian's post so people don't have to jump around to see what's being said.
Boy, I would have said the same thing you did on this. I am very surprised at this, and very curious about how it is implimented, because if it is not implimented in a logical way, it could create a mess in your sat setup.

I wonder if it merely adds an offset to the sat position. It doesn't actually alter the sat position i.e. say AMC 4 is a little off - it still shows as 101.0°, but the offset is added to the USALS final calculation result. When you select AMC 4, the receiver sets 101.0° + 0.X° and then sends this DiSEqC 1.2 command to the motor. That's just my impression of how it might function.

I dissagree slightly with a couple things Brian said though. I don't think that the satellite boxes are as big as the 1 degree. The most I've seen the sats move around is usually a tenth or two of a degree in each direction. I've never seen a sat off position by a half degree as he suggests. A 2/10 degree variation can hardly be noticed by a 3' dish on Ku band, and wouldn't be enough to warrant a position change, particularly because the next time you went to the sat, it would probably be back to where it was earlier anyway.

I agree. From what I have read, the satellite positions are maintained within a FEW meters. At 23,000 miles (37015Km), that is an extremely small degree. The satellite would have to drift 650Km (404 MILES!) to make a 1.006° degree change in the earth station's angle. They are much more precise than that. Of course, that is planar trigonometry, but the point is obvious.

If bumping of more than 1/10 is required, I'd really suspect that there is some other problem. I partially agree, and partially disagree with something else Brian said, ie the part about "If the motor must be bumped to peak on most satellites, this usually indicates that the alignment is slightly off." I would tend to agree with this if, and only if 80% of the sats cannot be bumped into good reception. Basically, if you can bump your motor to where you are getting maximum signal (verified by not being able to improve signal by lifting or pulling down on the dish), then, you are on the arc, and it is NOT a situation of the alignment being off. If all sats seem to be off by about the same amount, then it is a clear indication that you are out of sync, not out of alignment. This happens to me when the zero (reference) position on my motor gets changed. An out of sync condition can be temporarily fixed by changing the longitude of the user's position, and then that will be applied to all sats. However it is best fixed by doing a hard reset on the motor after manually moving it to zero (assuming that the motor has this function), or by doing a diseqC-1.2 resync command {assuming that this will apply to USALS calculations too}.

But anyway, I find it interesting that these receivers would have the "feature" of allowing you to alter the sat position automatically, mainly because the need for this bumping is generally an indication that something is wrong with the hardware, the sync of the hardware, or alignment. If numerous bumps and saves are requirred, I really think it's easier and better to use diseqC-1.2 . On MY little dish, I generally use USALS to find sats, then switch to diseqC-1.2 to bump to a maximum, then save via diseqC-1.2. If the requirred adjustment gets significant, usually across the arc, then I go outside and re-sync the motor via a reset.

I just wanted to add some comments above and one here. I have never found the need to "kick" any satellite in the azimuth. With my system, all the sats are spot on in the east/west position when using USALS. I could improve on some by adjusting the dish elevation, but then I sacrifice many others at the same time. So, I am mostly cutting through the center of the arc in elevation which is where I should be.

Consider our rainbow analogy to describe the satellite arc or Clarke Belt. Now think of our rainbows colors and a band of light with the ROYGBIV colors. RED, ORANGE, YELLOW, GREEN, BLUE, INDIGO, VIOLET.... We want to align with the GREEN band.

RADAR
 
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I just wanted to add some comments above and one here. I have never found the need to "kick" any satellite in the azimuth. With my system, all the sats are spot on in the east/west position when using USALS. I could improve on some by adjusting the dish elevation, but then I sacrifice many others at the same time. ...

You must have a pretty well made motor.:)

My motor will be right on across the arc one day, then the next day everything will be off a bit. If I either reset the motor's zero, or change my longitude, all the sats come back. Same thing happens on my BUD, when the receiver misses pulses, and get's out of sync, but with the little motors I don't know what the cause is, except perhaps getting some corrupted commands. It clearly seems to be changing it's zero point from time to time. It's not really an azimuth kick, it's an hour angle or motor rotation angle kick. If the azimuth was out, you wouldn't be able go get the reception peaked again by bumping the motor.

In another thread, the wind storm topic came up, that's what I'm talking about. I'm guessing that in that example, that the wind didn't really turn the dish on the mount, but possibly actually turned the gears within the motor without the motor's control program realizing it, thus changing the zero so it didn't know where it was.
 
So here's what happened

I spent the day on the roof, following every suggestion that was posted. I used the inclinometer and Conky's idea of tape measure to zero in on SatmMex5, my True South satellite. I tried all the suggested transponders posted (12024, 12059, 12175, 11739, 11740) and got nothing. I was certain I was on the right satellite, so I did a blind scan, and BINGO. There was a data transponder on HughsNet that gave me 99% quality (12559, 20000, both H and V). I was elated. That was the one and only transponder.

OK next step, save the position.

Then I tried to tell the motor to go to 97 West, and it missed ! So I went back to the roof, tweaked 97 West, and clicked "save position". Then I tried (all using USALS) to go back to SatMex5 and nothing--I think I perhaps got a faint signal quality.

So am I doing something wrong, or is this a poorly functioning SonicView, as AcWxRadar has said all along? The important question really is, would a different receiver do better, or is satellite location by motor an inherently difficult process?

(2) On the topic of motors, I tried looking around at other satellites manually while on the roof. Lyngsat stated NBC network could be had at 103 West, but when I got that satellite and scanned in the channels, NBC was nowhere to be seen, and I could not get the listed transponder for it to respond. Same exact story goes for trying PBS at 125 West. My question is, what interesting channels are all of you watching , and on which satellites? From what I can see, there is not much out there, but I admit to being confused on this topic, since differing sources seem to list different channels for the same satellites.

(3) Something interesting happened, which I am wondering if somebody can explain. I went back to 97 West, and did a blind scan, and it listed all the channels from both 97 and 99 West. I indeed received the channels from both satellites and could watch them. I went to dish setup for 99 West, and selected "scan this satellite" and it picked up 99 West, and then 97 West channels, and I can confirm they are both watchable. What is the explanation for this? I thought the LNB only picked up the one satellite the dish was precisely focused on?

(4) I know this is a newbie question, but I can't find the answer to this specific question. Let's say I have a TV and Receiver. Is there a way for me to get the channel on that TV to another TV, without the second TV having it's own receiver? This would be akin to using a splitter with a cable signal--can this be done with satellites?

I am aware of "switches" but unsure how they specifically work or what their limitations are. I know you can put a switch off a coax line from the LNB, then send it to 2 tv's with 2 receivers. Is there a more economical way to do this?

(4B) Also, if you use a switch to send to 2 TV's and 2 receivers, does that mean only one TV can watch at a time (A OR B ?). Can both people watch at the same time, or does the switch act like a railroad switch, sending the signal down one or the other, but not both?

One thing I will say is that this process of trying to configure the motor, via all your helpful suggestions, has made me quite adept at manually finding satellites. Everybody here has had a neat, unique, helpful insight or idea that when taken in totality, is really quite a collection of knowledge that I am certain was not easy to come by. So thank you all again for getting me from totally lost to pretty comfortable with this (excepting the motor issue, which I sense is just difficult despite the claims by manufacturers like Staab about USALS).
 
TMB, it really sounds like your motor is being incorrectly driven by the receiver. There are some receivers out there that simply can't control a motor properly. I've tried a couple that had me pulling my hair out, and I'm usually pretty fast at aligning a motorized dish. Since others have indicated that this particular receiver has such problems, it is most probably the source of the trouble.

As for channels, I like 125W AMC-21 for the PBS. You need a Dolby Digital audio decoder for the sound, but the Sonic Voom works nicely. Another favorite satellite of mine is 83W AMC-9 for the RTV (Retro TV) east and west feeds. There are lots of channels on 97W, but only a handful that interest me. Hispasat at 30W has some interesting channels, if you can see it. There are NBC network feeds on 103W AMC1, but those are mostly DVB-S2. Basically, there are plenty of good channels up there for watching, but they're spread across many satellites. And of course, there are the real gems, the occasional feeds of news and sports events. And there are plenty more good channels on C-Band as well...
 
TMB, it really sounds like your motor is being incorrectly driven by the receiver. There are some receivers out there that simply can't control a motor properly. I've tried a couple that had me pulling my hair out, and I'm usually pretty fast at aligning a motorized dish. Since others have indicated that this particular receiver has such problems, it is most probably the source of the trouble.

My experience with the SV 360 was precisely this. It had me really confused at first, then really cussing it. When I loaned it out to my brother, he brought it back with less hair on his head and the exact same results and conclusions. The 360 is just a messed up receiver when it comes to motor control. Not a good choice for a learning tool.

As for channels, I like 125W AMC-21 for the PBS. You need a Dolby Digital audio decoder for the sound, but the Sonic Voom works nicely. Another favorite satellite of mine is 83W AMC-9 for the RTV (Retro TV) east and west feeds. There are lots of channels on 97W, but only a handful that interest me. Hispasat at 30W has some interesting channels, if you can see it. There are NBC network feeds on 103W AMC1, but those are mostly DVB-S2. Basically, there are plenty of good channels up there for watching, but they're spread across many satellites. And of course, there are the real gems, the occasional feeds of news and sports events. And there are plenty more good channels on C-Band as well...

Tron's statement that I highlighted in red is the reason I really push motorized systems. You really cannot get the full spectrum of the FTA experience with one fixed point dish, even one with multiple LNBFs. Starting out with a fixed point system is a prerequisite, but in the end you should end up with a motorized system to appreciate it all fully. In the real world, a motorized system is not a viable option for everyone. Due to limitations with space and LOS, you have to go with what is logical and feasible, of course.

RADAR
 
You must have a pretty well made motor.:)

My motor will be right on across the arc one day, then the next day everything will be off a bit. If I either reset the motor's zero, or change my longitude, all the sats come back. Same thing happens on my BUD, when the receiver misses pulses, and get's out of sync, but with the little motors I don't know what the cause is, except perhaps getting some corrupted commands. It clearly seems to be changing it's zero point from time to time. It's not really an azimuth kick, it's an hour angle or motor rotation angle kick. If the azimuth was out, you wouldn't be able go get the reception peaked again by bumping the motor.

In another thread, the wind storm topic came up, that's what I'm talking about. I'm guessing that in that example, that the wind didn't really turn the dish on the mount, but possibly actually turned the gears within the motor without the motor's control program realizing it, thus changing the zero so it didn't know where it was.

B.J.

When I "bumped" my settings in this case (to compensate for what the wind did), it didn't bring me back to perfection, but it allowed me to at least view most of my channels. Something was still off as the quality levels were lower on many satellites than they were originally. The tracking of the arc was actually not the same as it had been.

I am thinking that the dish slipped on the motor tube right now, but I haven't confirmed this. After I went out and physically "grabbed" the dish and tried to move it to see what axis might have moved, I couldn't verify anything that was slipping, but I was then able to reset my longitude setting in USALS to nearly the proper setting, so something is moving very slightly (less than one degree). When I get more time to play, I will investigate it with more scrutiny.

RADAR
 
I spent the day on the roof, following every suggestion that was posted. I used the inclinometer and Conky's idea of tape measure to zero in on SatmMex5, my True South satellite. I tried all the suggested transponders posted (12024, 12059, 12175, 11739, 11740) and got nothing. I was certain I was on the right satellite, so I did a blind scan, and BINGO. There was a data transponder on HughsNet that gave me 99% quality (12559, 20000, both H and V). I was elated. That was the one and only transponder.

TMB,

First of all, there is definitely something really wrong here. There isn't a HughesNet data TP on SatMex 5 with a frequency of 12.559 Ghz and the data TPs almost always have a symbol rate of 30,000 (or something very high like this - 29,000 to 31,000. 30,000 is the correct SR, the receiver may simply be butchering the SR or assuming something a little off from that value, but 20,000 KS/s is not correct for certain.

So, you are definitely not picking up a data TP and not one from SatMex 5. Also, you stated "both H and V", and that is really odd and wild.

Third, the coordinates you gave initially (33N, 117W) are for Escondido, CA and not San Diego. so that is going to throw us off a little in our findings and solutions. This is not a big deal, but it is a little confusing. I always reference Omaha, NE as everyone can find that on a map, but I don't live there. For your case, we don't really know if you live in either location. You might be in Maine. Ha Ha! :D Nawh, I am just kidding you on that.


OK next step, save the position.

TMB,

If you are using USALS, there is NO need to save the position. The position is calculated within your receiver using your CORRECT LATITUDE and LONGITUDE position and the ORBITAL POSITION of the satellite that you are looking for.

If you are NOT entering the coordinates "PRECISELY" then your motor cannot drive to the precise location of the satellite and you definitely will be having troubles! I don't think that the difference between Escondido and San Diego will be extremely critical, but it would still be incorrect.

Do you understand how to locate your exact geographic coordinates? You can use Google or Google Earth and many other methods. Try to get within an accuracy of a few miles if you can. It will not make a huge difference, but it will certainly help you.


TMB,

Right now, the rest of your questions are immaterial to the conversation as there is no foundation to support any of the findings thus far. You did not "yet" locate SatMex 5. Now, I absolutely know that you can get this satellite to come in. If you are anywhere near Escondido or San Diego, this satellite has the hottest broadcast to that entire area. If I can pick it up here near Omaha, NE, you definitely can pick it up there and better. The power of the signal where you are is 48 dBw and they recommend a 70 cm dish. Where I am, it is 46 dBw and they recommend an 80 cm dish.

You just must forget about the motor and 97W and 99W for the time being and concentrate on 116.8°W (SatMex 5) with a fixed point dish and get that established first and foremost. Take the dish and motor off the mast and put up only the dish atop your mast. Then use DishPointer.com or FreeHostia to set your angles appropriately and dial that sat in.

Obviously, you are getting lost somewhere in the process and this is the best way to get yourself back on track. Lose the motor for now (especially since I don't trust the motor capabilities of the SV 360).

AFTER you have found SatMex 5, and you get back to the motor setup, get yourself a Coolsat 5K or Coolsat 6K or something similar so that we can rule the suspicious motor control of the SV 360 out. If you can borrow one from someone, by all means, do so. If you cannot find one of these, use a Fortec Star Dynamic or its equivalent. They are just as good for controlling a motor and just as easy to use. They may cost you a little more, but it won't be too much and it will be worth it to you.

We are going to get you set up, you can count on it! And I am not going to let you off the hook until you get it perfect! This process is much easier than you think and you are making some weird and unusual mistake somewhere along the way that is screwing the process up somehow. This is no reflection upon your abilities, it is simply an error that you are repeating that you have no idea that you are doing and that none of us have picked up on, yet. The SonicView may not be helping matters either.

Please don't give up on any of this, it is important that we figure it out and get it right. I will certainly continue to assist you, but you have to do one thing... Quit jumping ahead to the future! ;) You are going too fast and moving on to other subjects before you have mastered the basics and taken care of your last question. Let's take everything one step at a time and confirm the results before we move on. Agreed?

:up

RADAR
 
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Answers to your posts

Hi Radar and Tron,
Thank you for your posts. To address the issues you raised;
(1) I got the precise, decimal coordinates from Dishpointer.com, and confirmed it by handheld GPS. Cities in California are geographically quite large compared to those back East. The "city" of San Diego technically is around 60 miles long by around 50 miles wide (just a guess based on driving), and I am indeed in the northern part. So the coordinates I entered are correct to the nearest 1/10 of a degree, which is the limit of what I could enter.

(2) SatMex 5--as stated, I followed the advice previously posted here to the letter, including using a rooftop TV and taking the motor off. I literally spent around 2 hours looking for this specific satellite, tweaking and fine tuning. Now I swear to you, I got 99% quality on the Transponder I listed, and it showed 34 "non A/V" (meaning data) channels. There is nothing else in that area, or close by, that could have given me that. But, I did not get any other channels or the TP's listed. I did look and blind scan all satellites within 10 degrees of where I assumed I was, and got absolutely nothing.

(3) Regarding jumping ahead, I would say that is not really the case. Having taken up so much of peoples time, and having been meticulous in my approach, I really think I have exhausted this process. I would also say that I found the other satellites I was looking for, so I can't really be doing anything too wrong. I only asked those other questions because if there is not much else out there, it seems best to try adding another LNB if I just want to get PBS. If there was a major network or several networks I could get, that would be a different story. But my search of Lyngsat yesterday pretty much confimed what Tron posted--as of now it seems there is not much on other satellites to choose from.

I won't really have the time to pursue getting another receiver and re-doing everything until a month from now. My other questions are really meant for knowledge purposes as much as they are for practical use. I do sincerely appreciate the time and effort everybody has put into this.
 
Hi Radar and Tron,
Thank you for your posts. To address the issues you raised;
(1) I got the precise, decimal coordinates from Dishpointer.com, and confirmed it by handheld GPS. Cities in California are geographically quite large compared to those back East. The "city" of San Diego technically is around 60 miles long by around 50 miles wide (just a guess based on driving), and I am indeed in the northern part. So the coordinates I entered are correct to the nearest 1/10 of a degree, which is the limit of what I could enter.

(2) SatMex 5--as stated, I followed the advice previously posted here to the letter, including using a rooftop TV and taking the motor off. I literally spent around 2 hours looking for this specific satellite, tweaking and fine tuning. Now I swear to you, I got 99% quality on the Transponder I listed, and it showed 34 "non A/V" (meaning data) channels. There is nothing else in that area, or close by, that could have given me that. But, I did not get any other channels or the TP's listed. I did look and blind scan all satellites within 10 degrees of where I assumed I was, and got absolutely nothing.

(3) Regarding jumping ahead, I would say that is not really the case. Having taken up so much of peoples time, and having been meticulous in my approach, I really think I have exhausted this process. I would also say that I found the other satellites I was looking for, so I can't really be doing anything too wrong. I only asked those other questions because if there is not much else out there, it seems best to try adding another LNB if I just want to get PBS. If there was a major network or several networks I could get, that would be a different story. But my search of Lyngsat yesterday pretty much confimed what Tron posted--as of now it seems there is not much on other satellites to choose from.

I won't really have the time to pursue getting another receiver and re-doing everything until a month from now. My other questions are really meant for knowledge purposes as much as they are for practical use. I do sincerely appreciate the time and effort everybody has put into this.

TMB,

I certainly believe all that you are saying, but there IS something wrong. I am not sure what we are missing, but you and I and others are definitely missing something. You are in the best reception area for SatMex 5 and yet you cannot dial it in. I am in eastern Nebraska and I am able to get the FTA Ku band channels from SatMex 5. Theoretically, it should be a breeze for you.

You will have to understand that I am not doubting your workmanship nor your dedication nor your word, but something is absolutely wrong with the "big" picture in this case. Absolutely it should not be this difficult for you to locate SatMex 5 from your location and that is what has me confused.

I have to work for the next 14 hours or so, so I won't be able to chat about this with you until about 5 am Monday (4/19/2010), but I will ponder the situation and get back to you on this. We just have to figure this out TMB!

RADAR
 
The 34 no video/audio channels sounds like bleedoff from a dishnetwork satellite. Especially with 99 Quality and 20000 SR

Cheers, Catamount
 
Pictures

Here are pictures of the Transponders I got, showing both Horizontal and Vertical. There were 34 in total--half horizontal and half vertical. The quality was 99% yesterday, and it clearly says SatMex5. I moved the dish back to 97 West last night, hence the 0 quality right now. But you can see these "channels" were indeed picked up by the receiver, and the receiver seems to think they are from SatMEx5
 

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Here are pictures of the Transponders I got, showing both Horizontal and Vertical. There were 34 in total--half horizontal and half vertical. The quality was 99% yesterday, and it clearly says SatMex5. I moved the dish back to 97 West last night, hence the 0 quality right now. But you can see these "channels" were indeed picked up by the receiver, and the receiver seems to think they are from SatMEx5

The receiver doesn't "think" that these are SatMex channels. You told the receiver that the channels that were to be scanned are SatMex channels. Observe the names that the two channels have. These are not names from SatMex. Echostar names are from a Dish Network satellite. Catamount is correct. You scanned a Dish Network satellite while selecting SatMex satellite in the satellite list.
 
.... I was certain I was on the right satellite, so I did a blind scan, and BINGO. There was a data transponder on HughsNet that gave me 99% quality (12559, 20000, both H and V). I was elated. That was the one and only transponder.
......

..........
...Now I swear to you, I got 99% quality on the Transponder I listed, and it showed 34 "non A/V" (meaning data) channels. There is nothing else in that area, or close by, that could have given me that. .....

This discussion was too long to read everything, so I'm not sure if this is appropriate, however first of all, Radar is half right, ie that 20000SR is not a common SR for those data channels. THere are other SRs besides 30000, but they are usually things like 5000, 10000, 15000. I've never seen 20000, particulary never one that showed 34 channels.

HOWEVER, the 20000 SR IS likely to be a Dishnet transponder, and the fact that you're receiving it both H and V suggests circular polarization, ie again Dishnet.
I looked at the 119 sat, and there isn't a 12559, since DTV has the transponders up in that range. However, the highest DN transponder at 12516 just happens to have 34 channels.

SO.... is it possible that you're on that Dishnet sat, and the "non A/V" really means that they are scrambled, rather than DATA.

It might help ID where you are if you tell us the channel numbers of some of the 34 channels.
 
Thanks for the pics. Those are echostar chanels from dishnetwork. I would say you were between satmex and 119 echostar when you did the blind scan.

Catamount
 
This thread has pretty much decided

This thread has pretty much decided my fate in the next couple of months if I live. It's been really interesting and wow so much to learn from. I think seriously sometime in the next couple of months I will order a motor and try out a motorized ku setup on a small dish. My only experience with a motorized system is with BUDs.

I have installed one on my own and helped install several with my friends over the years. Never even seen a small one before so I have to say it will be interesting for me. I Just hope I can either use my Direct PC dish or my Primestar dish, that will save some money if I can use those with one of those little motors.

I have to say seriously this thread has really peaked my interests. Heck I'm even getting to where I can read Radar's posts without my head exploding and oh wow even half way understand what's going on. I just hope this thread is till going on and not files away when I get ready to order my motor. :) B.J I hope you're around and where is McGuyver!
 
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TMB,

Best I can discern is that you are on Echostar 10/11 (or whatever it is now) at 110.0°W. TP 24 (which is 12.559 GHz Left hand circular polarity, symbol rate 20.000, FEC 7/8.

I just got to work and logged in for a quick moment. Great that you provided the screen shots of your reception, that helped. I believe that we now know where you are when you think you are on 116.8°W. We need to look into your LNBF, it may not be a standard linear device if it is picking up DN this well.

Later,

RADAR
 
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The problem with the 110 sat is that it has 36 channels, not 34, plus after I read his response that it was a TOTAL of 34, that suggests that it was only 17 channels scanned twice . If he got them on both H and V, he'd end up with 72 channels if it was the 110 sat.
I looked, and on the 119 sat, there is one transponder that has 17 channels, but that is 12297, but if that is it, there must be some strange LO freq setting involved, because none of the common ones would end up to be close to that.
If he can find actual channel numbers, and not the numerical 1 thru 34, I think that we could figure out exactly where he is. It would be interesting..... to me at least, because I'm confused, because nothing seems to add up.
Also, it's kind of rare to only pick up one of the DN sats in the middle. When I pick up DN sats with a linear LNB, it will usually be the 12224, ie the first one, since there is only interferrence on one side.

Anyway, this is confusing to me.
 
The problem with the 110 sat is that it has 36 channels, not 34, plus after I read his response that it was a TOTAL of 34, that suggests that it was only 17 channels scanned twice . If he got them on both H and V, he'd end up with 72 channels if it was the 110 sat.
I looked, and on the 119 sat, there is one transponder that has 17 channels, but that is 12297, but if that is it, there must be some strange LO freq setting involved, because none of the common ones would end up to be close to that.
If he can find actual channel numbers, and not the numerical 1 thru 34, I think that we could figure out exactly where he is. It would be interesting..... to me at least, because I'm confused, because nothing seems to add up.
Also, it's kind of rare to only pick up one of the DN sats in the middle. When I pick up DN sats with a linear LNB, it will usually be the 12224, ie the first one, since there is only interferrence on one side.

Anyway, this is confusing to me.

Same here, B.J. Very confusing for me as well. However, I think we are at least on to something that we can try to identify. Something tangible and a little more familiar to work with.

RADAR
 
"it clearly says SatMex5"

"and the receiver seems to think they are from SatMEx5"

TMB,

Here is an example of many people's error. Someone else (I think it was Brian from Satellite AV) already explained it in another reply, but I am going to use your own quotes to help you understand what went wrong here.

You selected satellite 116.8°W SatMex 5 through your menus to scan, but you actually and physically had dialed your dish in on a DN satellite (and I strongly believe that it was 110.0°W).

When you told your receiver to blind scan the sat you were aimed at, it did just that! It blind scanned what it was looking at and that was 110.0°W. However, YOU told the STB that it was blind scanning SatMex 5 @ 116.8°W. The STB isn't smart enough to realize that you were not aimed at the satellite you truly wanted, therefore, it just logged all the stuff that it found under the heading of SatMex 5 @ 116.8°W instead of 110.0°W.

Basically, you told it to label anything and everything that it found as coming from SatMex 5. Therefore, you ended up with a list of some garbage from 110 in the 116.8 list of channels.

This mistake is common and we all do it often (even almost on purpose). You have to test the satellite and see what you come up with for transponders and channel so that you can determine where you are TRULY aimed.

Let me step back to the Coolsat reciever for just a moment... If you were using a CS 5K, there is that feature that I mentioned called the "PROVIDER ID". As you are searching around and panning your dish and motor and adjusting your dish elevation, you would sometimes detect a signal and that signal contains identification information. The CS 5K and 6K and I belive that the 4K also unveils this, but up in the top, right corner of the screen, it identifies the provider's ID.

In the world of LINEAR satellites, what is displayed there will vary depending upon which sat and which TP you are truly aligned with. The SV 360 may not have this feature or it may not be accurate if it is even available.

With the Coolsat 5K, the "provider ID banner" will generally tell you that you are aligned with Echostar X.

When you locate a signal, no matter which TP you selected from that sat. When it comes to the linear satellites, you will usually detect a different "ID" for each tranponder on one satellite. This is because each TP on every linear sat MAY be leased to diffferent users or providers. Therefore, the ID banner may/will be different and unique for numerous TP's on the same satellite.

Are you catching on?

RADAR
 
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