X2 premium
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You will find a fair amount of electronics that are designed overseas only have CE certification and are missing UL approval. Case in point, the power supplies that originally came with the AzBox Premium HD Plus that had a lot of issues going out were NOT UL approved. To resolve this issue, we actually had to get a new version of the power supply with UL certification for the North American market.
anik, I do not know you or what your job is --- However, in court, possession of stolen property is a crime!
"Accidents" while committing a crime are NOT covered by insurance. My attorneys are good. But the US Supreme court concurred.
Public statements, acknowledging theft, are admissible in court, and insisting on purchasing stolen property (even intellectual property) is not the wisest thing to do. Possessing burglar tools (narrow definition albeit) is prosecutable, even if you bought them at a garage sale. (Just hope you are not an enemy with the PA.)
"Accidents" while committing a crime are NOT covered by insurance. My attorneys are good. But the US Supreme court concurred.
Public statements, acknowledging theft, are admissible in court, and insisting on purchasing stolen property (even intellectual property) is not the wisest thing to do. Possessing burglar tools (narrow definition albeit) is prosecutable, even if you bought them at a garage sale. (Just hope you are not an enemy with the PA.)
And what does that have to do with anything? And for that matter, I don't know you, nor what your job is, nor do I really care. If you think for one minute I am going to seriously consider legal advice from some guy on the Internet, think again.
I was trying to be helpful. I did not realize that you considered yourself to be committing a crime by having possession of a heater that you purchased at a big box store (which is what you seem to be implying here). I am not a lawyer and and therefore I won't argue with you, but I will say that I have a very pragmatic approach to the law, which is to say I don't worry about things that just might possibly somehow be illegal if no one in my position, in my state, has ever been prosecuted for such a thing. I once read that there are so many laws on the books that the average person breaks about 25 of them every day and never knows it, and the reason they aren't in trouble is that the police and prosecutors don't know most of those laws either (and probably break the same laws themselves!).
I have NEVER heard of anyone getting busted for buying what they assumed to be a legitimate product at big box store, with no intent to do anything illegal. There is such a thing as intent, after all, and the police and courts consider it. It's not like you set out to buy a heater that violated some obscure law that you may or may not have known about. You trusted the store to sell you a legitimate product, as any reasonable person might.
If you are willing to let the insurance company deny your claim without a fight, or if you believe you have already put up as much of a fight as you can, that's your business, not mine. But I certainly would not take the position that it was somehow partly my fault if I were in your shoes, but maybe that's just me.
If there was some other point you were trying to make, it got lost in your hyperbole. You don't need to try to explain it further, because I probably won't care anyway.
X2 comes very close to it.. they attempt to equip it for piracy 'almost' right out of the box.. why would they pre-load BISS keys in their firmware. But, it is still a decent box for true FTA usage..for the money. Except for its picture quality (even in 1080i)
A little talking about Biss Encoded
http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/298122-BISS-Encryption?highlight=microhd+biss
There is a MAJOR difference between the customer entering a BISS code that has been legally provided to the end user by the broadcaster and the preloading of the BISS codes on the X2. BISS capable STBs have an entry screen to allow the end user to enter a code and legit receivers are not preloaded with current keys to enable unauthorized reception of subscription services.
Let's not confuse legal reception of encrypted channels by the end user and the illegal reception of encrypted programming. Folks must understand that X2 is illegally sharing stolen BISS keys and this is known as Key Sharing.
Let's not beat around the bush about what X2 is loading into the firmware releases and providing their customers with updates. The preloading of these BISS codes to enable the reception of subscription services by unauthorized end users is to enable THEFT OF SERVICE! The updating service provided by X2 to update the decryption keys is a form of IKS or Internet Key Sharing.
If the X2 only provided a BISS code entry menu for the end user to enter authorized keys provided to them by the service provider, then the information in this referring link would apply. Preloading BISS codes and updating BISS codes for unauthorized reception of subscription services is illegal. PERIOD!
Ti If you made one good box like x2 for $58 canad .I don't have problems to buy the box.But it's time to stop complain about the illegal and illegal.X2 are one good box for the price and legal .Only illegal because you and most north america and Europa suppliers like to sale the same receivers for over $200 and even $600
Luis2.. misplaced assumption... You haven't noticed, I have no horse in this race other than playing by the rules when distributing products. I do not sell STBs or any competing product to the X2. I am not trying to sell anything with this thread! 
Make every excuse that you want about why someone should buy an X2, but it does not change the truth. The X2 is a theft of service STB and it damages our industry by not supporting the development of technology by even paying for the cheap license fees for the technology that they steal!
BTW... A legit version of this STB with all licensing and no IKS is sold in North America (including Canada) MSRP $125. No, I do not sell it!
Until X2 starts selling a legit product, hobbyists need to be in the know of what they are buying!
Make every excuse that you want about why someone should buy an X2, but it does not change the truth. The X2 is a theft of service STB and it damages our industry by not supporting the development of technology by even paying for the cheap license fees for the technology that they steal!
BTW... A legit version of this STB with all licensing and no IKS is sold in North America (including Canada) MSRP $125. No, I do not sell it!
Until X2 starts selling a legit product, hobbyists need to be in the know of what they are buying!
Brian, How do you know the pre-loaded keys provided there are illegal??? Have you contact the key carriers?? Some sats showed there are not even for our region. So. I guess you are assuming. I'm not saying they are legal but could be the case the keys are there for a reason or a carrier approval to do so, yes, I'm also assuming. Have you forgot that when this issue was pretty hot Titanium didn't existed and you were pushing along others a product that at this moment you don't even mentioned or backup as you used to do?? The X2 was developed in China by Chinese engineers. They dont know whats legal or illegal in our region. When they released the product they began to receive tons of requirements to be included in their software and they were to fast to do so. For those with more market exposure like you it will be wise to generate a letter explaining all this issues and letting them know what is illegal in our region. if they keep failing to go the right direction then we all can dump it and call it a quit.
Brian, How do you know the pre-loaded keys provided there are illegal??? Have you contact the key carriers?? Some sats showed there are not even for our region. So. I guess you are assuming. I'm not saying they are legal but could be the case the keys are there for a reason or a carrier approval to do so, yes, I'm also assuming.
Have you forgot that when this issue was pretty hot Titanium didn't existed and you were pushing along others a product that at this moment you don't even mentioned or backup as you used to do??
In his previous post, he did mention that other product.
[BTW... A legit version of this STB with all licensing and no IKS is sold in North America (including Canada) MSRP $125. No, I do not sell it!
The X2 was developed in China by Chinese engineers. They dont know whats legal or illegal in our region.
Not really an excuse. Like saying I can go steal a car in China because I don't know it's illegal there.
When they released the product they began to receive tons of requirements to be included in their software and they were to fast to do so. For those with more market exposure like you it will be wise to generate a letter explaining all this issues and letting them know what is illegal in our region. if they keep failing to go the right direction then we all can dump it and call it a quit.
On the licensing, I've no idea still on whether that's legal or not. The menu items, I'd say a duck is a duck and it's very obvious. There's a lot more than just an entry spot for BISS codes in there, Nagra, Cryptoworks, server connections, etc . Like Brian said earlier, quit the nonsense and just call it for what it obviously is. The proof is there on the subject of the menu.
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, whatever!!
As I said in the previous post, I am not pushing any products in this thread and wanted folks to know that I am not promoting any other product that would possibly would be a conflict of interest, as several of you had suggested was my motivation in the old thread when I used to be associated with Satellite AV.
Let's focus on the facts and don't try to deflect the realities of this product. When Dolby, HDMI and USB representatives tell me that this product and a list of others are not certified and the product is not listed on there compliance lists, I have no reason to question. It is not registered with the FCC as part 15 compliant or registered with any NA recognized safety certification, these are known facts. It is up to the distributor to obtain and provide certifications, compliance and licensing when requested. This whole thing can be put to rest if one of the X2 supporters would simply post a link or copies of these documents that are question. Contact the distributor and request this information. I am sure that Ma Wang would be happy to comply to put these issues to rest.
You are correct, the X2 was developed in China by engineers who know what it takes to sell "FTA" products into North, Central and South America. Let's not play dumb here and call it for what it is. They are pre-loading keys and updating them for channels that require subscription somewhere. This is illegal "somewhere". These engineers seem very aware of how to "support" their boxes and sell more "FTA" receivers. BTW... If these codes are known to be for subscription channels and likely illegal why are these key codes preloaded and continuously updated on the factory firmware versions? In comparing these menus over many firmware versions, these codes change with each version of the "FACTORY" firmware that they release.
As far as knowing information about keys ... Google tells all. You don't need to have any relationship with subscription service providers to figure out what is going on.
Anyone here who questions the legality of these pre-populated codes, Google the preloaded key code that appears in the current firmware on your X2 and you will see that numerous open web sites list them as current and verified. Pull and older version of the firmware and compare. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to check the service providers to see that these are subscription services. You are correct, some of the services are not received in North America, but several of the services are. Google X2 IKS and you will see several Youtube videos showing how to connect to key sharing servers and showing programming from these subscription services. These apparently are services that are subscription based, popular and can be received in much of North, Central, South America and the Caribbean.
Carlos43, please don't take this personally. I have alot of respect for the great information and assistance that you provide to members of several forms. What I don't understand is why you continue to defend a product that has obvious legal issues. If members want to buy the X2 after hearing the facts, then they will. I just want members to know the truth so they can decide what and who to purchase from based on their own values!
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Here is what i think is going happen.
1. The X2 just goes away and a new model comes out.
2. A law firm gets involved and starts trolling for money. They will sue amazon and during that process amazon will have to hand over ALL customers records YES all records since amazon is the one warehousing the product. Then JohnQ the fta guy gets a $10,000 demand letter then the lawyers start taking people to court. So your $60 box could just turn into a $3,000 STB very quickly it's not cheap to go to court weather your right or wrong it costs $$$. I'm not here to say its legal or not i'm not a lawyer. I would be very careful buying an X2 they have made too much noise.
1. The X2 just goes away and a new model comes out.
2. A law firm gets involved and starts trolling for money. They will sue amazon and during that process amazon will have to hand over ALL customers records YES all records since amazon is the one warehousing the product. Then JohnQ the fta guy gets a $10,000 demand letter then the lawyers start taking people to court. So your $60 box could just turn into a $3,000 STB very quickly it's not cheap to go to court weather your right or wrong it costs $$$. I'm not here to say its legal or not i'm not a lawyer. I would be very careful buying an X2 they have made too much noise.
Should we add a licensing section to the forum and demand that all fta receiver distributors start providing licensing information, or at least the ones that are reasonably priced?
It seems funny to me that none of these issues came to rise when the Openbox came out. I would venture to say any allegation made about the X2 could have been made about it. The only difference is that Openbox let US distributors get there 100+% markup where X2 pays like 8% to Amazon (thus most of the price difference).
It seems funny to me that none of these issues came to rise when the Openbox came out. I would venture to say any allegation made about the X2 could have been made about it. The only difference is that Openbox let US distributors get there 100+% markup where X2 pays like 8% to Amazon (thus most of the price difference).
No offense, but this thread gets more ridiculous with each new posting. I know, I should just click away to other threads and be silent.
