Given that the reviewers from Consumer Reports were able to see differences on SD TV sets, it is certainly more than possible to see a difference on a HDTV set.
Why is the off-air antenna local picture so much better than the Dish OTA HD ?
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Given that the reviewers from Consumer Reports were able to see differences on SD TV sets, it is certainly more than possible to see a difference on a HDTV set.
Are not the SD sets received a down-converted analog signal? I would think this is different than what is being discussed here.
My main question is, where are the threads discussing why the Dish OTA produces an obviously inferior image than simply plugging the OTA cable directly into the tv?
It could be the tv, it could be the Dish OTA tuner. I just haven't seen the conversation about the Dish OTA tuner. Hence, my suggestion to eliminate the tv from the question first.
It's hard to imagine an order of magnitude difference on a 37" set unless you have a setup issue or a bad piece of hardware.
And all digital signals are compressed, even OTA ones. It's just that the OTA signal is likely to be compressed less than a cable or satellite one. Blu-ray discs can have even less compression, depending upon choices made by the manufacturer of the disc.
Of course, some stations multi-cast so much their PQ can be heavily degraded.
Of course, some stations multi-cast so much their PQ can be heavily degraded.
To the OP, I wholeheartedly agree that the HD OTA through my set's tuner is better than the HD OTA through my 622's tuner. I know the 622 has weaker upconversion than my set. I can set any SD program to 480i 4x3#1 out on my 622 and let my display de-interlace and upscale it. It will look much better than the same program set to display out at 1080i with my performing only de-interlacing.
The 722 may be different, but the 622 is a weak link with ATSC OTA PQ.
The 722 may be different, but the 622 is a weak link with ATSC OTA PQ.
But OP stated this was a straight 1080i signal put out at 1080i. There's no scaling or processing going on.
Going from 480i to 1080i is a multi-step process and using one piece of equipment to do that will usually always render a better image since each piece of equipment has it's own ideas about how to get 480i to 1080i so that it can be deinterlaced to 1080p.
Another consideration is the image calibration from the input source. The OP did not state which HDTV that he was using. Most new HDTV's allow for individual video control/adjustment from each input source. He may not have adjusted his OTA input from the default "torch" mode.
Because it is not the subject of the original post and although it merits worthy discussion, it does not need to do that here.
Age of the processors
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the chip in the 622 & 722 was designed about 5 yrs ago. The chip set in the LCD TV is much newer design. Also there will be the fact that it was built into the set to work directly with it's setup. The E* units are not built to work with just this TV but all different kinds. Which means it is designed with a broader over all application.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is that the chip in the 622 & 722 was designed about 5 yrs ago. The chip set in the LCD TV is much newer design. Also there will be the fact that it was built into the set to work directly with it's setup. The E* units are not built to work with just this TV but all different kinds. Which means it is designed with a broader over all application.
Because we are talking about OTA
So why do you think it is the right place to talk about Sat signals? Take the HD-Lite discussion to the E* PQ thread. It doesn't apply to OTA.
So why do you think it is the right place to talk about Sat signals? Take the HD-Lite discussion to the E* PQ thread. It doesn't apply to OTA.
That's what I'm saying exactly. The TV is a JVC LX37X688 37" 1080p LCD. The 622 was connected via HDMI, same as the PS3. The PS3 looks amazing on both Blu-Ray and games, so it's not the TV's conversion from 1080i (most of the PS3 games I have are either 720p or 1080i). All inputs calibrated using Avia.
But, just for laughs, I checked my Panasonic 768p 50" plasma downstairs with both the directly-connected antenna and the antenna connected to that 622, and same thing. Dramatically better picture with the directly-connected antenna. All inputs there also calibrated via Avia.
I don't have HD locals through Dish yet, but my locals OTA and cable HD feeds look pretty much the same.
The 8086 Intel processor was released in 1979. It was used in the fire control system of the now retired F-14 Tomcat fighter aircraft which could target multiple independent targets, over the horizon up 100 miles away.
Age does not mean not capable.
I believe the tv has a post-tuner video processing chipset that is responsible for the differences seen here which may or may not by user controllable through simple calibration steps.
Conclusion: Defective 622 OTA tuner. I do not see the same difference on my 622 and have not read anything like that here on the forum since the release of the 622.
Is this dramatic difference demonstratable by screenshots?
Back when reviewers tended to include comparisons of the ATSC image quality, the 921 wasn't regarded that well. It was below average on sensitivity, where other tuners could pull in several more OTA channels, and considered very average on image quality.
This may mean nothing in terms of the 622/722, but it has always been my impression that E* didn't focus a lot of attention upon building a first-rate ATSC section in their HD receivers. After all, their primary purpose is to handle E*'s programming.
This may mean nothing in terms of the 622/722, but it has always been my impression that E* didn't focus a lot of attention upon building a first-rate ATSC section in their HD receivers. After all, their primary purpose is to handle E*'s programming.
We're talking two different 622s here on two different TVs.
I have no idea how to do screenshots. Can you point me to a link that tells me how?
Both of my TVs' included tuners pull in more digital channels than the 622 and there seems to be less macro-blocking and signal fade/drop on PBS when the 622 is not involved.
I was aware of the sensitivity issue - not many tuners can pull in the stations I can get on my OnAirGT with it's 5th generation chipset. More units are using the better chipsets for pulling in a signal - I just haven't seen anyone saying the images are dramatically better. Maybe my problem is in the definition of DRAMATICALLY BETTER. Unless the image is pixelated, macroblocking and tearing I'm not sure how much better it could be, especially on a tiny screen.
