It would be ok if it was a flate rate of $5.98 per household, but its not, its per DVR. I have 5 DVR's which is the only reason I subscribe to the HD Everything pack, as it would be more expensive without it.
Why charge for DVR
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Because they want all the $$ they can get. They also charge for each DVR in the house. I have 2 and I get charged 2 times.
Alright, now let's presume for a second, (which is obviously not the case but the number might be a bit higher) that half of DISH Network subscribers have a minimum of two DVRs, under your plan, DISH would be making $38,272,000 from DVR fees alone. Under current practice, they make $76,544,000 (6.4 million customers multiplied by $5.98 per DVR with 2 DVRs per half of DISH's customers.)
So you want Charlie, to eat 38mil in DVR fees because it would be the nice thing to do. But, and I'm going to beat this horse to death, that money pushes development, streamlining products and processes, and allows DISH to do more than it could do otherwise. IF Charlie did change that practice, that 38 mil would most likely have to come from somewhere. And if something was to be added or changed, I doubt it would stop at 38mil.
In all likelyhood, it might be that 38mil each year that allows DISH to maintain it's America's Lowest price point. If DISH did flat-rate as suggested, but raised programming costs to match competitors, would you jump ship for the DTV HR20 offers? Or another DTV bounty on DISH customers? What major business incentive is there for DISH to swallow a 38 million dollar loss and maintain its price point afterwards; because you want it to? New customers cost money to bring in, that's true. But knowing that across advertising and the like that DISH already is at a loss for each new customer it gains, would you then ask Charlie to double/triple that loss?
People want DISH to drop its fees, reduce them, or to in some cases rename them which I really don't get. Anytime a company has to justify a major loss to please its customers, it needs some VERY good reasons, especially with a company as large as DISH. What serious benefits that could skyrocket DISH above DTV are there to justify doing this? Because that's the first thing Charlie will ask.
DISH is a subscription television company, not a pay as you go phone. There are fees, contracts and obligations. It's that simple. Now, Devil's Advocate: You're a DISH Network stock holder. Do you really want DISH to drop its DVR fees, which in turn will slash your divid-ends and drop your stock price? Because there are more stock holders than people upset with the fee.
And if you're Charlie, do you want to explain to most of your employees (most DISH employees do own stock if they've been around for over a year) why their stock just dropped in price, because a minority of customers (it is a minority, this is just a case of a very vocal minority, and regardless people still pay) want a small fee off their bill each month? Do you in essence want to explain to your employees that they're now coming to work each day, to pay for the customers that are supposed to be paying them? It's like having those DVR fees taken out of your paycheck each month.
People dislike fees, alright fine, noone likes to spend "unnecessary" money (and then goes to the bar and spends it there.) But these are the reprecussions of flat-rating a fee or removing one altogether. Having seen, heard and done the research on DISH position compensations versus industry standards, DISH does not pay top-dollar to non-executives (it does compete with other business minimums, but not the top of the spectum.) Would you ask your employees under present circumstances which most of you are aware of, to then take additional reduction in pay and benefits?
I admit, at the end of the day, subscribers don't give a damn about the company employees, which is to be expected in this society. But it doesn't negate the points stated above. The customer just wants the fee gone, but there's FAR more issues than the customers' happiness about the six dollars a month involved. Six dollars that they WILL pay anyways.
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zero237, your analisys is outrangeous; perhaps involved in Dish business
You don't have any real reason to speculate as you did w/out be an auditor of the company. Well, you can go with your speculation, but conclusions what you made up tottaly biased; plus you took one side calcualtion in favor of 10,000 employees against 12,000,000+ customers. The companies shouldn't twist contractual agreement for milk $5 here and there using fine print at other side of papers and have dual standard as for 501/508/721 owners against others.
You don't have any real reason to speculate as you did w/out be an auditor of the company. Well, you can go with your speculation, but conclusions what you made up tottaly biased; plus you took one side calcualtion in favor of 10,000 employees against 12,000,000+ customers. The companies shouldn't twist contractual agreement for milk $5 here and there using fine print at other side of papers and have dual standard as for 501/508/721 owners against others.
Talk about thick headed people. Lawyers cost $$$$ software upgrades to not infringe on some elses patents cost $$$$$. Two good reasons why they started to charge the fee. But no the only reason people can come up with is because they can. How childish and immature. The bottomline is all the bitching and moaning is not going to get rid of the fee's. If you do not like it sub to an Everything pack or find a 501/508/721 on ebay and then you will not have to pay the fee!
1. That's an assumption. You don't know anything about me, so my analysis may not be quite as outrageous as you believe it to be. As a matter of fact, it could be more accurate than you know.
2. There's more than 10,000 employees. And although customer's keep the business running, if half or more of the employees jump ship, I don't think the customers would have to worry about that 5.98 fee or much of anything else for much longer afterwards.
3. They could just add the DVR fees on all DVR/PVR models. Would that help?
Instead of criticizing my statements let's get some constructive feedback. What you just wrote is a personal attack, what I wrote is opinion, coupled with logical simple numbers and known opinions of the customer base. Shall we continue now?
I think this is one of the reasons some people are upset with Dish's DVR fees.
Back in the old days, Dish used to try and distinguish themselves from the "big old cable" conglomerates by not charging these types of fees. Remember those days? Many of the early customers were swayed to Dish because it finally looked like consumers were being charged a fair price for what they were getting.
That's all changed, and Dish is no different than any other provider. The value proposition they once offered had eroded greatly in the past five years.
Now, not only are there DVR fees, but there's also and HD-enabling fee (what a sham that one is), phone outlet penalties, plus the ever-present multiple receiver fees. I'm still waiting for the color-enabling fee, digital stereo fee, and EPG fees.
The frustration you see is just a result of good customers feeling that they've been betrayed and abandoned by a provider that they once admired.
Scott
What about the additional cost to mfg & develop the receiver. When DVR first started there was no DVR fees but you had to buy the receiver for approx $399. Not many where buying DVR's & market research showed that customers would rather pay a monthly fee than purchase the equipment. Today the service is about $72 a year which includes use of the equipment plus it is always under warranty. Imagine if you had to replace the unit beacause of a hard drive failure?
Today people pay for services such as voice mail, (why not just buy an answering machine?),cell phone Text & picture messaging & music ring tones ($.99/ mo) just to name a few.
Also, Echostar has an obligation to its shareholders to maintain profits & value. Drop the DVR fees...not a chance.
Today people pay for services such as voice mail, (why not just buy an answering machine?),cell phone Text & picture messaging & music ring tones ($.99/ mo) just to name a few.
Also, Echostar has an obligation to its shareholders to maintain profits & value. Drop the DVR fees...not a chance.
Hard drive failure impact could be a little issue, if from design ( that time I'll assure you every HW developer was aware about that ) the company implement sort of disk enclosure ( $10 cost in 10,000+ quantity) for user's replacement. They make worst computer like thier PVR/DVR devices throw all canones and rules of the industy what gathered by engineers for years. One small detail - air flow in 622 ! It was silly.
Theyr paranoid secrecy driving all the 'innovations', but a result of that - weak smart card security bring pirating to routine level. They spending mil dollars for court suits, but given a little to engineers - ask those person who lead development of 721/921 family - where is he now ? And why ?
Theyr paranoid secrecy driving all the 'innovations', but a result of that - weak smart card security bring pirating to routine level. They spending mil dollars for court suits, but given a little to engineers - ask those person who lead development of 721/921 family - where is he now ? And why ?
Really ! Ha ! Ha ! Ha !
Anyway, being a member on consumer site like this SG or DBSTalk you're advocating corporates... I'd bad taste in my mouth after reading such posts here, or HD-Lite proponents, etc .
Anyway, being a member on consumer site like this SG or DBSTalk you're advocating corporates... I'd bad taste in my mouth after reading such posts here, or HD-Lite proponents, etc .
I can't afford to look at a single side of the argument, so I acknowledge and approach both. The most common view is the consumer view, but that doesn't take corporate issues into account, which it needs to because ultimately consumer views change nothing, corporate interests do. If it's not in the best interest of the business, the consumer gets nothing, if it is, then the consumers see action.
Again, you've provided no constructive statements or proof of argument against my statements, only opinion.
It's often posted on this and other forums that employees and management of corporations read the posts. If they did, and saw the argument I was making, versus your counter-argument and they had to make a business decision based on that information, how do you think they would proceed? I'll take it one step further. What if one of those managers made a post, happened to have the authority and ability to make the decision and change a policy or practice, and whether you can prove or disprove their statements is how they are deciding.
Every post should have meaningful thought behind it, because you can't take one side and fight that way. If you do take one side, ultimately, the business will do so too, and when the business ultimately makes the rules and there is no negotiation, is that what you really want?
Again, you've provided no constructive statements or proof of argument against my statements, only opinion.
It's often posted on this and other forums that employees and management of corporations read the posts. If they did, and saw the argument I was making, versus your counter-argument and they had to make a business decision based on that information, how do you think they would proceed? I'll take it one step further. What if one of those managers made a post, happened to have the authority and ability to make the decision and change a policy or practice, and whether you can prove or disprove their statements is how they are deciding.
Every post should have meaningful thought behind it, because you can't take one side and fight that way. If you do take one side, ultimately, the business will do so too, and when the business ultimately makes the rules and there is no negotiation, is that what you really want?
You would think if this 38 million is going toward what you say , then I would be able to get the HD receiver that has a WORKING HDMI output!!, but I dont , and im still currently paying the $80+ per month without a resolution. So the R&D department needs a little more of that cut.
Well said , Scott.
This is exactly how I feel too, I got my dish years ago before they were giving them away to *new customers. My cable bill went to $30 back in 1991 or whenever , so I went out and paid $500 for the dish and was happy for a while. Now "betrayed and abandoned" is a very good description.
I have sit back and watched my bill rise, while all the *new customers reap the rewards, and the best they can come up with is wasting all this money on adverts for me to try and give these damn cards to someone.... give me a break.... It would be alot more cost effective to just make up a new fee...
Maybe Dish should change their slogan to "Dish Network, Better Rip Off, for all".
I am also paying $110 a month for a receiver that has more bugs than Window 95.
I do not know why they have to charge $5.00 and hopefully won't for external storage. However, if you didn't pay the 5 buck they will find another way to get it.
Dish, Direct TV and Comcast I swear they must all be brothers or at least related.
I am also paying $110 a month for a receiver that has more bugs than Window 95.
I do not know why they have to charge $5.00 and hopefully won't for external storage. However, if you didn't pay the 5 buck they will find another way to get it.
Dish, Direct TV and Comcast I swear they must all be brothers or at least related.
And you know what the sad part is about that? Years ago, I actively recommended Dish to everyone. I considered myself an advocate for satellite services in general, and Dish in particular.
Now, even with the "incentive" of the Dish Rewards program, I can't recommend Dish to anyone. Not in good faith, anyway.
I miss the old company, and their old business philosophy.
Scott
With all the new hidden fees that come with Dish, has made it extremely hard for me to recommend them to my friends and family. I'm quite embarrased by the new fees like the hd enabeling fees, the phone connection fee, the dvr fee per receiver- the worst etc. I can't tell people I know that they are the cheapest anymore because of the extra fees. The only way that Dish can give you the most for your money is to sub to AEP for sd receivers or PLat hd pack for HD receivers, other wise it is fee city.
I don't see how anyone will upgrade to hd once they learn of all these extra fees not to mention the $199.99 lease fee. I can't get my mom and dad to upgrade because they don't want the extra fees. They already hate the dvr fee and they only have one 625 receiver. They cut their programming because of the dvr fee. They would get hit with the hd enabeling fee which would raise their bill just to get the 622 to see their digital locals by 6.00 on top of the dvr fee of 5.98. I can not justify that extra cost to them.
IF Dish wants to get people to upgrade to High def receivers and go with hd programming they need to rethink these extra fees .DISH needs to return to their roots and do away with all these ridiculous CABLE like fees or they won't have any future with hd customers.
They attracted a lot of new customers with the 501/508/721 dvrs with no dvr fees back about 5 years ago. IF they want to compete with a new energized Directv and the 40 or so hd channels they are supposed to have next year, they better find a way to clean some of this up. Most cable companies do not charge a lease fee to rent a box from them, especially on hd receivers. THis puts Both Dish and Directv at a disadvantage with Dish at $199.99 and Directv at $299.99. Add to this the new competition with FIOS and the telecos and internet tv which I know will be big soon, and you have Dish at a big disadvantage.
WAke up Charlie and reclaim your company before the bean counters put you out of business.
I don't see how anyone will upgrade to hd once they learn of all these extra fees not to mention the $199.99 lease fee. I can't get my mom and dad to upgrade because they don't want the extra fees. They already hate the dvr fee and they only have one 625 receiver. They cut their programming because of the dvr fee. They would get hit with the hd enabeling fee which would raise their bill just to get the 622 to see their digital locals by 6.00 on top of the dvr fee of 5.98. I can not justify that extra cost to them.
IF Dish wants to get people to upgrade to High def receivers and go with hd programming they need to rethink these extra fees .DISH needs to return to their roots and do away with all these ridiculous CABLE like fees or they won't have any future with hd customers.
They attracted a lot of new customers with the 501/508/721 dvrs with no dvr fees back about 5 years ago. IF they want to compete with a new energized Directv and the 40 or so hd channels they are supposed to have next year, they better find a way to clean some of this up. Most cable companies do not charge a lease fee to rent a box from them, especially on hd receivers. THis puts Both Dish and Directv at a disadvantage with Dish at $199.99 and Directv at $299.99. Add to this the new competition with FIOS and the telecos and internet tv which I know will be big soon, and you have Dish at a big disadvantage.
WAke up Charlie and reclaim your company before the bean counters put you out of business.
Right on, you tell 'em. I agree wholeheartedly. Dish could do DVR fee per account like Directv does. Dish could get rid of these fees and attract even more customers. Their objective in the past was to be cheaper than cable. These fees make it harder to accomplish that. All of these fees really add up.
The company back then was small, now they are much larger and it is almost as if they represent something/someone else. The small company is about the small guy and the big company is about the big guy. Dish used to feel like a premium service with pride, now they feel more like a cable company.
