Who will make it to the HALL of FAME this year?

[TheTimm]

Personally, I don't think either Trammell or Whitaker belong in the Hall of Fame -- but I'm baffled as to why - especially here in Detroit - it's almost always Trammell that people bring up as being deserving while ignoring Whitaker. If I had to put one of them in, it would be Whitaker. I never thought Trammell was the best shortstop in the game, and for a while there I did think Whitaker was the best 2nd baseman around. But he hardly gets considered at all. Hmm....wonder why.

I think if anyone off the '84 Tigers should get in the Hall, it should be Jack Morris. But I'm kinda on the fence on whether or not even he belongs.

 

[TheTimm]

Ripken in with a near-record 98.5%
Gwynn in with 97.6%

McGwire just misses with um, 23.5%

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-halloffame&prov=ap&type=lgns


They didn't have the full results here, but I'd love to know how close Gossage came.
And I'm finding it interesting to compare the official results to the results of this poll.

 

[TheTimm]

They've updated the results now.

Aww... Goose was only 21 votes short.

 

[Ramy]

They've updated the results now.

Aww... Goose was only 21 votes short.

He needs to be in, this is rediculous. They need to overhaul the voting system. They need more than just the writers, because if you pissed them off then you don't have a snowballs chance of getting in. Just look at Kingman, he should be in there.

 

[Jimbo]

Personally, I don't think either Trammell or Whitaker belong in the Hall of Fame -- but I'm baffled as to why - especially here in Detroit - it's almost always Trammell that people bring up as being deserving while ignoring Whitaker. If I had to put one of them in, it would be Whitaker. I never thought Trammell was the best shortstop in the game, and for a while there I did think Whitaker was the best 2nd baseman around. But he hardly gets considered at all. Hmm....wonder why.

I think if anyone off the '84 Tigers should get in the Hall, it should be Jack Morris. But I'm kinda on the fence on whether or not even he belongs.

I KNOW both Trammel and Jack Morris deserve to be in there, but unfortunatly it doesn't look good for either.

Morris was the best pitcher in baseball for many years.
Trammell gets dissed because of Cal Ripken and his stupid streak and refusfing to take a day off.
I am not certian about how I feel about Whitaker, but it would be nice to see them go in together IF they ever get a chance.

Jimbo

 

[Jimbo]

He needs to be in, this is rediculous. They need to overhaul the voting system. They need more than just the writers, because if you pissed them off then you don't have a snowballs chance of getting in. Just look at Kingman, he should be in there.

I agree with everything you said here, EXCEPT KINGMAN, where did that come from ?

 

[Ramy]

I agree with everything you said here, EXCEPT KINGMAN, where did that come from ?

Well, before Canseco and McGwire became eligible for the Hall of Fame, I think Canseco is??? He was the only person with more than 400 HRs that was not a member. He should be in there.

 

[TheTimm]

I KNOW both Trammel and Jack Morris deserve to be in there...

...I am not certian about how I feel about Whitaker...
Jimbo

Okay, that's exactly what I don't understand. Why do you feel so strongly that Trammell deserves it, but not so much with Whitaker? This is definitely the popular opinion, but frankly I just don't get it.


Seasons played -- Trammell played 20, Whitaker 19
Games played ----- Trammell played 2293, Whitaker 2390
At bats ---------------Trammell 8288, Whitaker 8570

Okay, so while Trammell played one more season, Whitaker played almost a hundred more games and had close to three hundred more at-bats. Now a look at the career stats:

Ave -------- Trammell .285, Whitaker .276
HR ----------Trammell 185, Whitaker 244
RBI ---------Trammell 1003, Whitaker 1084
OBP --------Trammell .352, Whitaker .363
SLG ---------Trammell .415, Whitaker .426
Runs -------Trammell 1231, Whitaker 1386
Hits ---------Trammell 2365, Whitaker 2369
2B -----------Trammell 412, Whitaker 420
3B -----------Trammell 55, Whitaker 65
BB -----------Trammell 850, Whitaker 1197
SO -----------Trammell 874, Whitaker 1099
IBB ----------Trammell 48, Whitaker 79
GIDP ---------Trammell 156, Whitaker 143
SB ------------Trammell 236, Whitaker 143

All Star ------Trammell 6, Whitaker 5
Gold Glove---Trammell 4, Whitaker 3
Fielding % ---Trammell .976, Whitaker .984


Other than nine points of batting average, I just don't see a whole lot of places where Trammell has a clear edge. Hell, you'd be hard-pressed to find two guys with more similar career stats. So what is it? Why is he thought of as having had such a better career than Whitaker?

 

[Jimbo]

Okay, that's exactly what I don't understand. Why do you feel so strongly that Trammell deserves it, but not so much with Whitaker? This is definitely the popular opinion, but frankly I just don't get it.


Seasons played -- Trammell played 20, Whitaker 19
Games played ----- Trammell played 2293, Whitaker 2390
At bats ---------------Trammell 8288, Whitaker 8570

Okay, so while Trammell played one more season, Whitaker played almost a hundred more games and had close to three hundred more at-bats. Now a look at the career stats:

Ave -------- Trammell .285, Whitaker .276
HR ----------Trammell 185, Whitaker 244
RBI ---------Trammell 1003, Whitaker 1084
OBP --------Trammell .352, Whitaker .363
SLG ---------Trammell .415, Whitaker .426
Runs -------Trammell 1231, Whitaker 1386
Hits ---------Trammell 2365, Whitaker 2369
2B -----------Trammell 412, Whitaker 420
3B -----------Trammell 55, Whitaker 65
BB -----------Trammell 850, Whitaker 1197
SO -----------Trammell 874, Whitaker 1099
IBB ----------Trammell 48, Whitaker 79
GIDP ---------Trammell 156, Whitaker 143
SB ------------Trammell 236, Whitaker 143

All Star ------Trammell 6, Whitaker 5
Gold Glove---Trammell 4, Whitaker 3
Fielding % ---Trammell .976, Whitaker .984


Other than nine points of batting average, I just don't see a whole lot of places where Trammell has a clear edge. Hell, you'd be hard-pressed to find two guys with more similar career stats. So what is it? Why is he thought of as having had such a better career than Whitaker?

I personally think Whitaker had the ability to hit about .320 every year, he had a swing that could hit to all fields but didn't do it nearly as often as I thought he would.

Trammel was a hard nosed guy that I don't think ever got the respect that he deserved, he was the second best at his position according to voters.
Since when can you be the second best and NOT get in , because of it.

I never said that Whitaker should NOT be in, juast thought you got more out of Tram that Lou.

Jimbo

 

[Paul Wozniak]

They were the longest continious playing 2nd - SS combination in baseball. They both should be in.

 

[Sean Mota]

They were the longest continious playing 2nd - SS combination in baseball. They both should be in.

And both were very scary hitters when they came to bat. What a pair? the good old days.

 

[sidekick]

They were both good players. I don't think they were hall of famers though.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

Compare Trammel and Whitaker's stat's with the guys from the same positions who are in the hall. You may change your mind.

 

[Jimbo]

Compare Trammel and Whitaker's stat's with the guys from the same positions who are in the hall. You may change your mind.

The reason I think Tram gets dropped was because of the people that were ahead of him... Who said there could only be one top player voted in your era as one position... per league I think.

Ripken gets ALL the pub, because of his streak and Ozzie smith gets all the pub in the NL side. There were many years that Tram did not make the All Star team because Ripken was the ONLY SS taken, not sure why, but it was.

Dave Conception and Barry Larkin are two others that will not get the pub they deserve.

Also, there is NO WAY that Jack Morris should not be in.
Others I would like to see in are : Goose Gossage, Bert Blylevin to name a few.

There are others that deserve to be in, but I don't have a list of the eligable people in front of me.

Jimbo

 

[Ramy]

Dave Conception and Barry Larkin are two others that will not get the pub they deserve.

Yeah and it's not fair. Barry Larkin was in my opinion was just as good as Ozzie Smith defensivily and there was no comparision when it came to hitting.

Look at Larkin's numbers compared to Ozzie's. (Larkin on top, Ozzie on bottom)

G AB R H 2b 3b HR RBI SB BB SO BA OBP SLG
2180 7937 1329 2340 441 76 198 960 379 939 817 .295 .371 .444



2573 9396 1257 2460 402 69 28 793 580 1072 589 .262 .337 .328

 

[Jimbo]

Yeah and it's not fair. Barry Larkin was in my opinion was just as good as Ozzie Smith defensivily and there was no comparision when it came to hitting.

Look at Larkin's numbers compared to Ozzie's. (Larkin on top, Ozzie on bottom)

G AB R H 2b 3b HR RBI SB BB SO BA OBP SLG
2180 7937 1329 2340 441 76 198 960 379 939 817 .295 .371 .444



2573 9396 1257 2460 402 69 28 793 580 1072 589 .262 .337 .328

I agree, if Ozzie is in then Barry belongs too, however ozzie was an era ahead of Barry right ? So the numbers will be somewhat different.

Jimbo

 

[Ramy]

I agree, if Ozzie is in then Barry belongs too, however ozzie was an era ahead of Barry right ? So the numbers will be somewhat different.

Jimbo

Maybe half an era at most. Barry was a rookie in 1985. Ozzie in what 1978? 7 years isn't much

 

[Jimbo]

Maybe half an era at most. Barry was a rookie in 1985. Ozzie in what 1978? 7 years isn't much

ya your right, they are closer than I thought...

ramy, where do you finding stats on retired players ?

Jimbo

 

[Ramy]

ya your right, they are closer than I thought...

ramy, where do you finding stats on retired players ?

Jimbo

I just did a Google search and found them.

When in doubt, Google!!!

 

[sidekick]

Two great sources for baseball player stats: www.baseball-almanac.com and http://www.baseball-reference.com These sites are also invaluable when you're trying to figure out when a team ball was signed and who's on it. Hope this helps Jimbos!

ya your right, they are closer than I thought...

ramy, where do you finding stats on retired players ?
Jimbo