Who is going to Win the HD War?
- Thread starter Sean Mota
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Jaded13 said:
Nice purple crack pipe, I don't know what you're talking about, that link goes into how D* just moved 3 HD channels to a single transponder. This could be temporary until after the NFL season or to make way for TNTHD and NFL-ST.. in either way it goes to show you that D* does not give a fart how HD looks on your expensive as balls home theatre.
Sorry not the attitude I want from my provider.
Hell if Voom could get these elliptical dishes out by October, and raises the HD PQ to 15-16mps, they would get at least 10,000 D* converts that same month... just read the thread! If Voom releases then a good DVR right after that.. more converts... D* IMHO has the resources to have 50 HD channels at 19.xx mbps, they are stingy, haven't been committed to HD until now...and right now they seem committed to JoeSixPack HD-Lite.
I currently have only HD OTA channels. This includes the 6 major network, 3 PBS and numerous foreign language stations. My local cable provide, Charter, only offers 4 HD channels above the 4 major networks they provide. The only other HD options I have are either V* or D*.
Subscribing to V* is attractive with the 39 HD channels they offer, but with all the install and STB horror stories I keep hearing, I prefer to wait a few more months.
It appears that D* may now be an option with a new bird scheduled to be launched next year. My biggest hesitation is that the Sat will be built and launched by Hugh's. Didn't I read that they lost a few Sat's either due to a bad launch or failure? I would hate to go out and order D* in anticipation of all the new HD channels, only to find a delay due to an unforeseen problems.
I'm surprised no one raised this issue.
Until D* has all the additional HD channels up and running, I won't place my order. Like the man form Missouri says "show me".
So who wins, only the people who currently have Voom and are happy with the service.
Subscribing to V* is attractive with the 39 HD channels they offer, but with all the install and STB horror stories I keep hearing, I prefer to wait a few more months.
It appears that D* may now be an option with a new bird scheduled to be launched next year. My biggest hesitation is that the Sat will be built and launched by Hugh's. Didn't I read that they lost a few Sat's either due to a bad launch or failure? I would hate to go out and order D* in anticipation of all the new HD channels, only to find a delay due to an unforeseen problems.
I'm surprised no one raised this issue.
Until D* has all the additional HD channels up and running, I won't place my order. Like the man form Missouri says "show me".
So who wins, only the people who currently have Voom and are happy with the service.
Exactly. I would also wait to see if they up the bandwidth, I could care less if they have 1,000 HD channels, if they are being slaughtered at 3 channels/transponder like they just did to make way for HD Football, forget it.mechaley said:
Hey Darrell, can you imagine HDNet @ 7.8mb/s in your 9.16 ft screenDarrellP said:Exactly. I would also wait to see if they up the bandwidth, I could care less if they have 1,000 HD channels, if they are being slaughtered at 3 channels/transponder like they just did to make way for HD Football, forget it.
:shocked :yikes
New generation of HDTVs w/dual tuners - DVR is therefore a networked extension of the HDTV. You will be able to record one show while watching another.nyjklein said:
Yeah, it would look about as good as EquatorHD.Walter L. said:Hey Darrell, can you imagine HDNet @ 7.8mb/s in your 9.16 ft screen
Seriously, it would rival any of Dish's SD channels, YUCK! :yikes
DarrellP said:Yeah, it would look about as good as EquatorHD.
Seriously, it would rival any of Dish's SD channels, YUCK! :yikes
Yeah but it's still widescreen and HDNet so suck it down and love it. It's not bad picture quality, is fuzzy screen love baby.
cable has one HUGE disadvantage: each area is served by a different company. There are too many cable cos out there, and service varies widely, even within the same company. On paper, cable should be able to cream satellite, with big pipe, bundled broadband service, locals. Yet they just can't seem to get their act together.
d* is owned by rupert, who is richer than god. once they get the new sats up, it could get scary.
I would not want to have one company dominates hd. that's not good for consumers.
whoever wins.... we lose.
if they all compete neck to neck, we win.
d* is owned by rupert, who is richer than god. once they get the new sats up, it could get scary.
I would not want to have one company dominates hd. that's not good for consumers.
whoever wins.... we lose.
if they all compete neck to neck, we win.
DirecTV lost IMHO. LIL killed SD resolution. LIL HD at compressed rates is pointless. Now starting to regret my HDtivo purchase for timeshifting.
I think there are two premium markets for HD-centric services: 1) Movies, 2) Sports. I think a comprehensive package of either could undercut Voom quickly, but neither competitor seems to want to undercut.
I think there are two premium markets for HD-centric services: 1) Movies, 2) Sports. I think a comprehensive package of either could undercut Voom quickly, but neither competitor seems to want to undercut.
One way Directv owns Voom and DISH is their hardware. You don't hear too many people gripe about the reliability of D* hardware. Voom needs to get it together on the reliability of their equipment. Same for DISH.
The next 2 years should be interesting to watch with all 3 providers doing major things with HD.
The next 2 years should be interesting to watch with all 3 providers doing major things with HD.
DarrellP said:And delivers a full bitrate picture.
I agree. Damn that's twice in one day I agree with Darrell. I m off to the DR.
Obviously for HD purists, VOOM is (and has been for its brief life) the HD leader.
There is no comparison.
Yet there are a number of cautions: for just one example Betamax always delivered a better picture than VHS. The evidence is there that most people (even those with HD sets often use standard progression DVD machines and love the quality) don't care about perfect HD quality. They are used to years of muddy VHS quality, so even ED is a major step forward.
So VOOM is selling PQ, which seems not to be a major selling point, while its lack of local HD is crippling and perhaps even fatal (as Cablevision candidly admitted in its SEC filing yesterday.)
Meanwhile, cable had a huge head start getting close to 75% penetration nationally, but its arrogance, miserable service and pricing policies have caused it, even without local HD, to steadily lose ground to D* and E* -- especially when SD LIL cities were added. Now MSOs can claim only about 67% penetration. The vast majority of DBS additions in the past two years have come directly at the expense of cable.
In addition, cable has had decades of built-up bad will and price gouging to overcome. It seems clear that when offered a choice (which includes locals) many consumers will choose DBS. D* and E* have for years won the J.D. Powers customer satisfaction award as cable fell farther and farther behind.
At at the moment the HD penetration rate is still very small, so there just aren't all that many HD consumers to fight over - yet. Maybe the penetration rate is four per cent, perhaps even as high as six per cent. Let's be conservative and call the HD penetration rate five per cent: about 5.45 million homes.
Of those, there are more than a million DBS subscribers, and despite far superior picture quality and quantity, just about 29,000 VOOM subs. (There are close to that many DirecTV HD TiVo owners, and the machines have only been available since the end of April.)
Surely the VOOM business, marketing, advertising and installation plans were wrong.
Obviously they were on target for HD fans who want lots of movies and don't care about network TV or SD channels. Or who are among the 15% or fewer who actually use an antenna.
But the sad fact appears to be that the vast majority of people just don't care all that much about superior picture quality (remember the Betamax example?)
Obviously from this week's announcement, and NewsCorp's statements since taking over D*, DirecTV management see the opportunity to grab a large share of the 67 million homes now connected to cable.
Will adding premium Starz or Cinemax help in any great manner? Or will, by mid next year, offering HD LIL to 60+% of the nation's cable subs -- 38-40 million homes -- be a better business plan.
I would rather see every HD channel NOW on DirecTV.
But if I have to wait a few more months, I'll do it.
I just can't see any way that VOOM, as it is now being run, can be any kind of factor long-term. In fact I think its mis-guided and amateurishly run business may even have set back the HD cause.
Because if VOOM were a viable competitor, NewsCorp and Echo Star would have had to step up to the HD plate even faster. But as it is, why should they bother to worry in the slightest about VOOM?
There is no comparison.
Yet there are a number of cautions: for just one example Betamax always delivered a better picture than VHS. The evidence is there that most people (even those with HD sets often use standard progression DVD machines and love the quality) don't care about perfect HD quality. They are used to years of muddy VHS quality, so even ED is a major step forward.
So VOOM is selling PQ, which seems not to be a major selling point, while its lack of local HD is crippling and perhaps even fatal (as Cablevision candidly admitted in its SEC filing yesterday.)
Meanwhile, cable had a huge head start getting close to 75% penetration nationally, but its arrogance, miserable service and pricing policies have caused it, even without local HD, to steadily lose ground to D* and E* -- especially when SD LIL cities were added. Now MSOs can claim only about 67% penetration. The vast majority of DBS additions in the past two years have come directly at the expense of cable.
In addition, cable has had decades of built-up bad will and price gouging to overcome. It seems clear that when offered a choice (which includes locals) many consumers will choose DBS. D* and E* have for years won the J.D. Powers customer satisfaction award as cable fell farther and farther behind.
At at the moment the HD penetration rate is still very small, so there just aren't all that many HD consumers to fight over - yet. Maybe the penetration rate is four per cent, perhaps even as high as six per cent. Let's be conservative and call the HD penetration rate five per cent: about 5.45 million homes.
Of those, there are more than a million DBS subscribers, and despite far superior picture quality and quantity, just about 29,000 VOOM subs. (There are close to that many DirecTV HD TiVo owners, and the machines have only been available since the end of April.)
Surely the VOOM business, marketing, advertising and installation plans were wrong.
Obviously they were on target for HD fans who want lots of movies and don't care about network TV or SD channels. Or who are among the 15% or fewer who actually use an antenna.
But the sad fact appears to be that the vast majority of people just don't care all that much about superior picture quality (remember the Betamax example?)
Obviously from this week's announcement, and NewsCorp's statements since taking over D*, DirecTV management see the opportunity to grab a large share of the 67 million homes now connected to cable.
Will adding premium Starz or Cinemax help in any great manner? Or will, by mid next year, offering HD LIL to 60+% of the nation's cable subs -- 38-40 million homes -- be a better business plan.
I would rather see every HD channel NOW on DirecTV.
But if I have to wait a few more months, I'll do it.
I just can't see any way that VOOM, as it is now being run, can be any kind of factor long-term. In fact I think its mis-guided and amateurishly run business may even have set back the HD cause.
Because if VOOM were a viable competitor, NewsCorp and Echo Star would have had to step up to the HD plate even faster. But as it is, why should they bother to worry in the slightest about VOOM?
If D*'s former success is measured by their delivery of SD LiL's, and they are planning on measuring their success in the HD market based on their SD model, then I for one have no interest in their future. D* has shown total disdain for PQ over and over again throughout the years as they upped the compression across the board, and their recent moving of three HD stations to a single transponder (at horribly reduced bitrates) demonstrates a firm commitment on their part to reducing the PQ on HD channels. If they try hard enough, maybe they can reduce it down to the level of their current SD locals, which by most anyone's standards (except maybe Stevie Wonder's), are totally unwatchable.
One thing has been extremely consistent with D*, and that is their desire to add more subs and screw their current customers as much as possible, mostly by expanding their LiL offerings at the expense of further PQ reduction in the current channels. This philosophy simply won't fly with HD, unless they are relying on total stupidity (and blindness) on the part of their subscribers. What they say and what they do are polar opposites.
Correct.
Who gives a rat's ass? Subscribers have no commitment and no investment in equipment, and since you yourself have admitted that Voom is the undisputed HD leader, why not enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts?
And how exactly has it set back the HD cause? I suppose that D*'s squeezing of 3 HD channels onto a single transponder has really helped, right?
You're right. D* and E* could care less about HD in any form, and as such, there is no pressing need to compete with Voom.
One thing has been extremely consistent with D*, and that is their desire to add more subs and screw their current customers as much as possible, mostly by expanding their LiL offerings at the expense of further PQ reduction in the current channels. This philosophy simply won't fly with HD, unless they are relying on total stupidity (and blindness) on the part of their subscribers. What they say and what they do are polar opposites.
Correct.
Who gives a rat's ass? Subscribers have no commitment and no investment in equipment, and since you yourself have admitted that Voom is the undisputed HD leader, why not enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts?
And how exactly has it set back the HD cause? I suppose that D*'s squeezing of 3 HD channels onto a single transponder has really helped, right?
You're right. D* and E* could care less about HD in any form, and as such, there is no pressing need to compete with Voom.
BTW, I haven't been hanging around in this forum lately because I have been too busy watching the tons of HD material available to me on Voom and on my local OTA antenna. I just happened to come back because I read a rumor somewhere that Voom had added the SciFi channel, the only SD channel that I have missed since switching to Voom. So Voom now has EVERY SD channel that I care about and tons more HD than anyone else, so they are now both the SD and HD leader in my book.
Since I have been away for so long, maybe someone could answer a few questions for me:
1. How many HD channels has D* added to their lineup this year?
2. How many since the launching 7S?
3. What new promises have they made?
4. What old promises have they fulfilled?
Since I have been away for so long, maybe someone could answer a few questions for me:
1. How many HD channels has D* added to their lineup this year?
2. How many since the launching 7S?
3. What new promises have they made?
4. What old promises have they fulfilled?
Why?
Why is it so many people feel a company has to be the biggest on the block in order to be successful? I don't think there's anyone here who would say Voom is going to win anything. But why do they have to? All they have to do is become a viable company with enough subscribers to pay the bills. They don't have to rule the world by putting DTV and Dish out of business.
Also, everytime something pops up on the Internet or Voom changes a policy or whatever, everyone runs around saying Voom is going out of business. Funny, throughout all of this they are still adding subscribers. If it was so bad NOBODY would be signing up.
Anyway, I really don't care whether Voom makes it or not. For now, Voom is the best product for me. Tomorrow, who knows? I'll worry about it then...
The Rickster
Why is it so many people feel a company has to be the biggest on the block in order to be successful? I don't think there's anyone here who would say Voom is going to win anything. But why do they have to? All they have to do is become a viable company with enough subscribers to pay the bills. They don't have to rule the world by putting DTV and Dish out of business.
Also, everytime something pops up on the Internet or Voom changes a policy or whatever, everyone runs around saying Voom is going out of business. Funny, throughout all of this they are still adding subscribers. If it was so bad NOBODY would be signing up.
Anyway, I really don't care whether Voom makes it or not. For now, Voom is the best product for me. Tomorrow, who knows? I'll worry about it then...
The Rickster
Directv and Dish both have a history of talking crap, but never delivering. Sean you started off with Dish and how they were talking about Super Dish with 50 HD channels, but it never worked out. I won't believe Directv's plans until I see them, even if they get the satellites up, and start adding channels, they've got a lot of ground to catch up with Dish, as far as LIL, Movie channels, etc... Not to mention add all of the HD channels that they are talking about.
1080iBeVuMin said:
That's an interesting idea. Consider this - Cablevision (owner of Rainbow/Voom) has a market value of about $6 billion. Echostar's is $14.3 billion, and DirecTV is a about $23 billion. If E* and C* were to merge, they would be very close in market size to DirecTV. That would give them the financial resources to compete head to head, and give E* an immediate advantage over D* as far as HD offerings, which they could pound on for several years to gain subscribers before D* can catch up.
eric2004 said:
OK first i wish i was as smart as half you guys. SO with that said thats talk about us little people. Right now i have V* And E* , and i am sure there are alot of other people in the same boat.Forget what about the big numbers in this fantasy merger for a sec, . I would love just 1 bill. SO whoever buys or merges with Voom (i hope E*) i am sticking with that company. Cause i love voom. Its the best this since the 99cent menu.
