White area/ Distant locals Question

[MacKenzieIII]

I understand that E* and D* have the address checker on their web site to tell you if you qualify for distant locals. But is there a map somewhere that shows what that is based off of?

I found this http://flattop.its.bldrdoc.gov/gifs_ntia/KNBC_HYBRID.gif which would show that I am no where near KNBC range (I live at the top edge of that map). But when I enter my address I am told that "I qualify for LA locals". What I really want is to get distants so that I can get east coast locals. I know I can request a waiver, but why should I have to request a waiver to a station 200+ miles south of me?

 

[charper1]

Just because the actual affiliate is 200 miles away, doesn't mean that they (or someone else) doesn't have a television repeater tower somewhere much closer, that allows them to claim you in their DMA. I know a lot of rural areas are like this; no local affiliate but the close metro puts up a repeater somewhere between them and you. I may be wrong, but the date on the maps says 1998, so not too sure how accurate those are now; I am sure they are missing many stations. What is your zip?

 

[MacKenzieIII]

Just because the actual affiliate is 200 miles away, doesn't mean that they (or someone else) doesn't have a television repeater tower somewhere much closer, that allows them to claim you in their DMA. I know a lot of rural areas are like this; no local affiliate but the close metro puts up a repeater somewhere between them and you. I may be wrong, but the date on the maps says 1998, so not too sure how accurate those are now; I am sure they are missing many stations. What is your zip?

I am in Ridgecrest, Ca 93555. And yes I think there could be a repeater that a local group maintains. And I guess that might be whats doing it too me. Whats funny is the repeater is some local non-profit group. So is there "good deed" keeping me from being in a white area?

 

[charper1]

If I read the antennaweb report of your zip correctly, it seems likely. The zip posting also might allow some other local users to chime in.

Broadcast Translator (aka repeater): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_translator

Call Sign ----- Channel ----- Network ----- City ----- State ----- Heading ----- Miles

K67AO 67 FOX RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K55AB 55 PBS RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K51DD 51 ABC RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K59AO 59 NBC INYOKERN, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K57AK 57 CBS INYOKERN, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K11ML 11 FOX RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 155° 2.9

 

[MacKenzieIII]

If I read the antennaweb report of your zip correctly, it seems likely. The zip posting also might allow some other local users to chime in.

Broadcast Translator (aka repeater): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_translator

Call Sign ----- Channel ----- Network ----- City ----- State ----- Heading ----- Miles

K67AO 67 FOX RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K55AB 55 PBS RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K51DD 51 ABC RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K59AO 59 NBC INYOKERN, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K57AK 57 CBS INYOKERN, ETC. CA 180° 16.0
K11ML 11 FOX RIDGECREST, ETC. CA 155° 2.9

Yes and those are all re broadcast LA locals (or I think they are all LA I do not look at them as the quality is pretty poor). But I had not realized that the fact that the local TV group rebroadcasts LA locals that it makes us part of the LA DMA. Ahh well, I guess there are worse DMAs to be part of.

 

[Tower Guy]

I understand that E* and D* have the address checker on their web site to tell you if you qualify for distant locals. But is there a map somewhere that shows what that is based off of?

I found this http://flattop.its.bldrdoc.gov/gifs_ntia/KNBC_HYBRID.gif which would show that I am no where near KNBC range (I live at the top edge of that map). But when I enter my address I am told that "I qualify for LA locals". What I really want is to get distants so that I can get east coast locals. I know I can request a waiver, but why should I have to request a waiver to a station 200+ miles south of me?

According to the current rules as listed at:

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/shvera.html

You do not qualify for distant signals because local signals are offered to you.

The 2004 SHVERA statute changed distant signal eligibility in some circumstances.

If you received distant signals as of December 8, 2004, because you lived in an unserved household, you may also receive local stations if the satellite company is currently offering them in your DMA or introduces new local-into-local service in the future. However, if you did not receive or try to receive distant signals as of December 8, 2004, you are not eligible for distant service if local channels are offered. (You may be able to get a waiver of the "no-distant-where-local" requirements from the local television stations; check with your satellite company to see if this is possible.)

 

[MacKenzieIII]

Well oddly enough I went direct to my NBC affilliate and they granted me a waiver in less than 30min after I emailed them directly. Of course getting DISH to recognize that I have that waiver and turn on NBC New York (so we don't have to stay up till midnight to watch Olympics) still hasnt happened 5 days later. And at this point its probably not even worth it. But still sad how slow E* can be, I mean would it be so bad if they could just transfer me to talk to someone in the waiver dept? But no I have to call exec customer service and they can only email the waiver dept and tell me to wait 2 weeks.

 

[Tower Guy]

Well oddly enough I went direct to my NBC affilliate and they granted me a waiver in less than 30min after I emailed them directly. Of course getting DISH to recognize that I have that waiver and turn on NBC New York (so we don't have to stay up till midnight to watch Olympics) still hasnt happened 5 days later. And at this point its probably not even worth it. But still sad how slow E* can be, I mean would it be so bad if they could just transfer me to talk to someone in the waiver dept? But no I have to call exec customer service and they can only email the waiver dept and tell me to wait 2 weeks.

E* cannot legally do what you ask. Current rules prohibit delivery of a station from an earlier time zone. You were probably given a waiver so easily because the station knew that it was worthless to you.

 

[lostlife]

http://www.iwvtvbooster.org/

Info on the local tv booster for Ridgecrest, CA. soon to broadcast digital.

Also, you're not in the NY market area or anywhere near it, you won't get permission from E* to get it. LA locals is all that we can get here. We can't even get Bakersfield locals.

 

[MacKenzieIII]

E* cannot legally do what you ask. Current rules prohibit delivery of a station from an earlier time zone. You were probably given a waiver so easily because the station knew that it was worthless to you.

Where are you getting this from? Of course they can give me distant locals from a earlier time zone. In the past I have had Atlanta ABC. I suspect I also have to subscribe to my locals not just get the distant locals. But with a waiver from my local affiliate there is no reason you can't get stations in a different time zone.

 

[MacKenzieIII]

http://www.iwvtvbooster.org/

Info on the local tv booster for Ridgecrest, CA. soon to broadcast digital.

Also, you're not in the NY market area or anywhere near it, you won't get permission from E* to get it. LA locals is all that we can get here. We can't even get Bakersfield locals.

I know about the the tvbooster site, in fact I even went and got an OTA antenna for getting the OTA HD signals from back in December and January when they were broadcasting HD. But since it has all gone away with no date set for them coming back. So a big waste of money with the antenna so far.

I know I can't get permission from E* without permission from the LA affiliate. But if you can get a waiver (which I did) from the LA affiliate then Dish will let you subscribe to distant locals.

P.S. good to see a fellow Ridgecrester

 

[Tower Guy]

Where are you getting this from? Of course they can give me distant locals from a earlier time zone. In the past I have had Atlanta ABC. I suspect I also have to subscribe to my locals not just get the distant locals. But with a waiver from my local affiliate there is no reason you can't get stations in a different time zone.

From: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-260936A1.doc

SHVERA expands the copyright license to make express provision for distant digital signals. In general, if a satellite carrier offers local-into-local digital signals in a market, it is not allowed to offer distant digital signals to subscribers in that market, unless it was offering such distant digital signals prior to commencing local-into-local digital service. If a household is predicted to be unserved by the analog signals of a network station, it can qualify for the distant digital signal of the network with which the station is affiliated if it is offered by the subscriber’s satellite carrier. If the satellite carrier offers local-into-local analog service, a subscriber must receive that service in order to qualify for distant digital signals. A household that qualifies for distant signal service can receive only signals from stations located in the same time zone or in a later time zone, not in an earlier time zone. SHVERA also provides for signal testing at a household to determine if it is “served” by a digital signal over-the-air. In some cases, if a household is shown to be unserved, it would be eligible for distant digital signals, provided the household subscribes to local-into-local analog service, if it is offered. However, this digital testing option is not available until April 30, 2006, in the top 100 television markets, and July 15, 2007, in all other television markets. Such digital tests also are subject to waivers that the Commission may issue for stations that meet specified statutory criteria.

 

[MacKenzieIII]

From: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-260936A1.doc

SHVERA expands the copyright license to make express provision for distant digital signals. In general, if a satellite carrier offers local-into-local digital signals in a market, it is not allowed to offer distant digital signals to subscribers in that market, unless it was offering such distant digital signals prior to commencing local-into-local digital service. If a household is predicted to be unserved by the analog signals of a network station, it can qualify for the distant digital signal of the network with which the station is affiliated if it is offered by the subscriber’s satellite carrier. If the satellite carrier offers local-into-local analog service, a subscriber must receive that service in order to qualify for distant digital signals. A household that qualifies for distant signal service can receive only signals from stations located in the same time zone or in a later time zone, not in an earlier time zone. SHVERA also provides for signal testing at a household to determine if it is “served” by a digital signal over-the-air. In some cases, if a household is shown to be unserved, it would be eligible for distant digital signals, provided the household subscribes to local-into-local analog service, if it is offered. However, this digital testing option is not available until April 30, 2006, in the top 100 television markets, and July 15, 2007, in all other television markets. Such digital tests also are subject to waivers that the Commission may issue for stations that meet specified statutory criteria.

That may be what SHVERA says but it is not the reality of what DISH will do for you. I can go in to my E* account today and turn on Distant locals for networks that I have a waiver for. And all of those distant local options are for time zones earlyer than mine.

Edit: I see the problem, those are the rules for digital signals. What I was trying for was Analog. So that quote does not apply.

 

[avediswolf]

I think it may be time to "Move" to a white area.