Where is USB External Storage for the 942/ViP622?

[Smith P.]

Wrong - "USB2.0 is rated for 480 MB/s"; how easy to mess with BIT and BYTE, but it's x8 difference !

"My HTPC records at 16 MB/s" - you mean 16 Mbps ie 2 MBps.


USB2 have total bandwidth ( not a speed ) 480 Mbps, ie ~48 MBps shared between system stream and device(s), when [e]SATA-1 have dedicated ( since only one device per port allowed) speed up to 150 MBps.

 

[Smith P.]

Also, living in XXI century we have STANDARD Ethernet 1000 Mbps and 10 Gbps. Wake up !
Plus new WiFi devices support 801.11n 250 Mbps.

 

[riffjim4069]

The simple rule I've folowed, all the way back to my MVS days, is that storage is typically represented in megabytes (MB) and transfer speed is typically represented in megabits (Mb), or bits per seconds. Yep, it's a huge x8 difference.

 

[NOHDjunkie]

Wrong - "USB2.0 is rated for 480 MB/s"; how easy to mess with BIT and BYTE, but it's x8 difference !

"My HTPC records at 16 MB/s" - you mean 16 Mbps ie 2 MBps.


USB2 have total bandwidth ( not a speed ) 480 Mbps, ie ~48 MBps shared between system stream and device(s), when [e]SATA-1 have dedicated ( since only one device per port allowed) speed up to 150 MBps.

I'm aware that megabit and megabyte are different animals. Sorry for using the incorrect acronym. 1 byte = 8 bits, so the bandwidth of USB 2.0 is 60 MBps (theoretical) not 48... since we are being specific.

Regardless, my point was more to state that USB2.0 external HDD is more than adequate to do the job.... and to elaborate on Darrin's 1 hour of HD = 10GB.

And I would argue that in home netwotks, a 100 Mbps ethernet/ 54Mbps wireless is the standard in a large majority of homes. And both are cabable of streaming HD content. I do it all the time with mine.

 

[John Kotches]

The simple rule I've folowed, all the way back to my MVS days, is that storage is typically represented in megabytes (MB) and transfer speed is typically represented in megabits (Mb), or bits per seconds. Yep, it's a huge x8 difference.

SATA (Serial ATA) is a serial interface, so rating this as a serial rate value (in Gigabits per second) is a sensible method. SATA-1 is a 1.5 Gbits/second interface, and SATA-II is a 3.0 Gbits/second interface. In the end, you're moving the bits 1 at a time across the wire so that's the way to rate it.


Cheers,

 

[David_Levin]

USB2.0 is rated for 480 MB/s (More than capable of archiving HD content and streaming it)

Ethernet standard is @ 100 MB/s

Wireless g @ 54 MB/s

Sure, but the reality of an interface can be a far cry from its advertised theoretical maximum. Depending on the protocol layer 30% overhead is not unusual.

That's why I posted numbers of actual, measured 622 USB2 performance. We know it can do at least that.

PS: I had a horrible time trying to stream video over 802.11g. My computer generally reports connections in the 20M range (but it bounces around). I think I'm getting too much interference on the 2.4 gig (tried different channels - some better then others). Finally gave up and wired Ethernet. All is happy now.

Theoretically it should have worked. But, real like usage is a different story.

 

[Smith P.]

"the bandwidth of USB 2.0 is 60 MBps (theoretical) not 48... since we are being specific" - nay, I'm counting (optimistic) some overhead too - just a little ;
would be practical for the board measure in MBps when do transfer big files, ie provide a speed numbers close to sustain value
same point to JK phrase - "SATA (Serial ATA) is a serial interface, so rating this as a serial rate value (in Gigabits per second) is a sensible method"; actually HDD specs still show 150 and 300 MBps - convinient to compare with IDE/PATA drives

 

[David Dietzel]

Dish:

We need external storage option yesterday.

How difficult can this be to roll out a USB hard drive for the 942 and 622 that preserves content protection?????

Actually, an external USB enclosure with Dish firmware is all I really need -- I can then slap in whatever big freaking hard drive I want.

 

[Smith P.]

You asking too much for Dish - look how MS still beaten with DRM implementation; they have much more experience software developers but loosing the battle.

 

[navychop]

"...I would not buy ANY drive for the 622 until E* announces whether you will be able to use your own drive...."

Absolutely. I'm just hoping they stick to a release before the holidays.

 

[John Kotches]

Sure, but the reality of an interface can be a far cry from its advertised theoretical maximum. Depending on the protocol layer 30% overhead is not unusual.

That's why I posted numbers of actual, measured 622 USB2 performance. We know it can do at least that.

PS: I had a horrible time trying to stream video over 802.11g. My computer generally reports connections in the 20M range (but it bounces around). I think I'm getting too much interference on the 2.4 gig (tried different channels - some better then others). Finally gave up and wired Ethernet. All is happy now.

Theoretically it should have worked. But, real like usage is a different story.

David:

I'm thinking you're putting too much stock on the 54 Mbits/second rating. That's great under ideal conditions and short range, that's about it.

Wired is better.

100 Mbits/second, especially when using non-blocking switches, is the best way if you're talking about distributing HD content without concern for issues wth playback. If you can get gigabit, that's even better

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

You asking too much for Dish - look how MS still beaten with DRM implementation; they have much more experience software developers but loosing the battle.

Quite a few more people are hacking away at MS' content than will be hacking away at Dish' PVR output though. That makes a difference for how long it might take to get a theoretical hack.

Cheers,

 

[Dan Rapp]

Sorry if I am missing an answer posted elsewhere (and am a little surprized this thread isn't more active) but is there any update about when Dish will activate USB to hard drive backup for the 622?

Dan

 

[jdr01930]

Quick answer - latest word is this summer.
There is a more recent thread somewhere...
I'd dig up the link for you, as there IS more info, but gotta run right now...

 

[jdr01930]

Here's the link:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=85040

Crap that's a long thread.

I think the jist of it is:

Coming out this summer.
You can use any off-the-shelf USB hard drive
Dish will charge you a one-time enabling fee.

It's technically done, they just haven't figured out the fee, and something more pressing came up that back-burnered USB support for a bit.

Be on the look out for:
In the spring, dish will announce that they're postponing it again till fall (just kidding on that one - hopefully)

 

[ChetK]

Be on the look out for:
In the spring, dish will announce that they're postponing it again till fall (just kidding on that one - hopefully)

I've got my money on your joke.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Then in the fall, they will deny ever having committed to this.

 

[NpaulTodd]

then they'll say we "skiped" fall this year

 

[riffjim4069]

It was reported in the November 2005 Tech Chat that E* was beta testing external hard drive solutions for the 942. Well, here it is almost a year later and I was just wondering when hell may actually freeze over and E* start supporting USB 2.0 hard drives, as promised? I believe this was also mentioned by Charlie is his December 2005 Charlie Chat.

I don't think we're asking for miracles here...it's just a DVR using USB storage. Cable has been supporting external storage devices for quite sometime. This is just plain sad that E* can't support industry standard technology almost two years after the fact.

I get the feeling USB storage has been shelved due to it not being a source of revenue.

Ok, my crappy cable company has been supporting external storage (eSata) on their technology challenged SA8300HD DVR since November 2004. Here it is almost March 2007 and USB storage is still vaporware. Actually, I've been hearing "it works great" in beta for more than 18 months, but who knows when USB external storage will actually happen on the technology rich ViP622?

 

[datwell]

"...I would not buy ANY drive for the 622 until E* announces whether you will be able to use your own drive...."

Absolutely. I'm just hoping they stick to a release before the holidays.

navychop: Please try to be more specific!!! Exactly which holiday in which year might this take place?

---Doug