What no one will tell you about HDTV...

[ronjohn]

The guy in the following thread describes a compromised digital picture and is told by some, that somehow he wasn't even watching digital anymore - he must be watching analog. He describes poor picture and even ghosting! How could he have seen ghosting? Because the same issues that plagued analog signal are being dealt with in digital signal.

The problems haven't changed, digital is just much more robust in dealing with the interference of multi-path , noise, and the rest. His failing LNB allowed him to watch his digital picture degrade to analog quality. And, we get an interesting glimpse of digital picture variation.

Do you even know what ghosting is? Do you know what multipath is?

The same issues with analog signal transmission do affect digital signal transmission. However, you seem to not know that the two issues listed above are exactly the same signal transmission problem.

 

[highdefjeff]

Again, i refer back to my question. If you cant SEE it, then it does NOT effect PQ in the way that jeff implied. A simple repeak of the dish will not make PQ any better or any worse as long as you have an acceptable signal level.

You guys dance circles around yourselves! The point IS...that it is noticable. The government studies it, regular people report it all the time. The science supports it. And now, you are aware of it.

And of course, "A simple re-peak of the dish will not make PQ any better or any worse as long as you have an acceptable signal level." You are responding to posts by others not by what I've said.

 

[Smith P.]

The ummm thread should be moved into other forum. About misconceptions and misunderstandings.

 

[digiblur]

Jeff and the followers,

How many errors do you see on the high signal snapshot and how many do you see on the low signal?

Case closed.....

 

[primetimeguy]

You guys dance circles around yourselves! The point IS...that it is noticable. The government studies it, regular people report it all the time. The science supports it. And now, you are aware of it.

And of course, "A simple re-peak of the dish will not make PQ any better or any worse as long as you have an acceptable signal level." You are responding to posts by others not by what I've said.

Can you go get us some screen caps or data of some programs on your TV, along with the signal level? Then go misalign your dish slightly and take pictures again so we can see the difference you claim exists.

Edit: just like what digi did...nice....but for some reason I doubt the case is closed.

 

[highdefjeff]

The ummm thread should be moved into other forum. About misconceptions and misunderstandings.

Yes, absolutely I am exposing The Digital Myth!

Hey, someone want to tell the Crutchfield Advisor that what they say:

"Get a stronger cable or satellite signal
If you're frustrated with the quality of your cable or satellite picture, you may want to try adding a line booster. It can amplify the signal, giving your TV a clearer, stronger feed to work with. A line booster can also be a good choice for people trying to split the signal among multiple rooms."
Improving Non-HD Sources on Your HDTV

is wrong? Personally, I don't suggest a line booster in satellite systems. The satellite systems are engineered in a way that makes available enough signal to do the job. It's up to the technician to be able to get it.

 

[digiblur]

Can you go get us some screen caps or data of some programs on your TV, along with the signal level? Then go misalign your dish slightly and take pictures again so we can see the difference you claim exists.


Edit: just like what digi did...nice....but for some reason I doubt the case is closed.

So who's setting up two dishes to 110W, each connected to a dual tuner DVR, record the same program(can you do that?), then post pictures of the differences.

The ummm thread should be moved into other forum. About misconceptions and misunderstandings.

I'm just unsubscribing from this thread. Should have done that a long time ago.

 

[ronjohn]

Yes they are wrong. You cannot use a line booster to connect a sat LNB to multiple rooms.

You can use a line booster to split the TVOut from the sat receiver to multiple tvs. But that is analog not the digital satellite transmission.

From what I have read, you know a lot of lingo, but do not understand very much.

 

[John Kotches]

OK. So now what happens when the control sum doesn’t validate the frame? And how do you know the control sum itself isn’t bad data? Once again, the only valid measure (comparing the delivered data with the original source) is not available to you and me – only to technicians at the uplink location.

Checksums are unique to the blocks that create them. Since you don't have the original data, all you have is the checksum.

Once that integrity is blown you don't have a robust system.

Either the checksum is valid for the data or it isn't.

Now what are the odds that the checksum is bogus against good data?

Without knowing more about my background, education and experience in data communications, maybe you should reconsider your claims.

Why? It's fairly simple stuff.

My only quarrel is with those who claim there are no differences between the picture when the signal strength is high or low. The viewer probably won’t see errors when the signal is low since forward error correction will prevent a red pixel in a sea of green, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any errors.

If there are errors the checksum won't agree with the data. Then the question becomes how is this handled? That's specific to the implementation.

I'm much more concerned with the head end which does significantly more damage than a single mangled data block.

 

[Smith P.]

Enough !!!

You're already lost ground and mistakenly brought the "adviser" to put yourself deeper in a hole of incompetence.

 

[John Kotches]

You guys dance circles around yourselves! The point IS...that it is noticable. The government studies it, regular people report it all the time. The science supports it. And now, you are aware of it.

THe governemnt study you linked to discusses the effects of compression at the head end.

And of course, "A simple re-peak of the dish will not make PQ any better or any worse as long as you have an acceptable signal level." You are responding to posts by others not by what I've said.[/QUOTE]

It's true.

Even at 100% signal you can drop data. Without a direct connection from wherever the head end is to the receipt of the data, you're going to get data errors from time to time.

Once you reach nominal level, these should be very short lived.

Unfortunately because this is a real time operation, it's one shot and you're done.

 

[digiblur]

Yes, absolutely I am exposing The Digital Myth!

Hey, someone want to tell the Crutchfield Advisor that what they say:

"Get a stronger cable or satellite signal
If you're frustrated with the quality of your cable or satellite picture, you may want to try adding a line booster. It can amplify the signal, giving your TV a clearer, stronger feed to work with. A line booster can also be a good choice for people trying to split the signal among multiple rooms."
Improving Non-HD Sources on Your HDTV

is wrong? Personally, I don't suggest a line booster in satellite systems. The satellite systems are engineered in a way that makes available enough signal to do the job. It's up to the technician to be able to get it.

LOL LOL!!! You just lost the little tiny last bit of credibility...

Please CLICK HERE since you believe what you just posted.

 

[highdefjeff]

Can you go get us some screen caps or data of some programs on your TV, along with the signal level? Then go misalign your dish slightly and take pictures again so we can see the difference you claim exists.

Edit: just like what digi did...nice....but for some reason I doubt the case is closed.

It's right here:

Video Quality Research Home Page

Again!

 

[highdefjeff]

LOL LOL!!! You just lost the little tiny last bit of credibility...

Please CLICK HERE since you believe what you just posted.

:haha That was funny, but get some new material.

 

[ronjohn]

It's right here:

Video Quality Research Home Page

Again!

If you look further into that website, you will see that the "digital video impairments" that they show are related to the Compression, Storage, and Transmission of digital video. It is NOT related to signal strength at the receiver.

 

[primetimeguy]

It's right here:

Video Quality Research Home Page

Again!

There's nothing with those pictures that say the impairments are caused by the signal level.

 

[digiblur]

Keep it going guys... I've got a bowl of popcorn going and greased up F5 key to watch the show.

 

[digiblur]

:haha That was funny, but get some new material.

There's always this ONE

 

[highdefjeff]

If you look further into that website, you will see that the "digital video impairments" that they show are related to the Compression, Storage, and Transmission of digital video. It is NOT related to signal strength at the receiver.

I didn't send that to verify anything about signal, just to verify that picture quality can change, which, by the way, was not even acknowledged by any of you at the start of all this. Maybe I've taught you guys something after all.

I'm done.

 

[highdefjeff]

There's always this ONE

I'm laughing even though I shouldn't be.

Hold another football for me Lucy!