VOOM Goes BOOM - update Dish Drops all 15 VOOM Channels

[grb]

I'm with you. I'd switch in a heartbeat if Direct picked up VOOM.

Me too!!

When Dish shut down Voom and replaced them with commercialized HD channels that often (some mostly) broadcast in SD and/or stretchovision, I felt like my Jaguar had just been totalled and the insurance company said "not to worry -- we have a replacement here -- a Taurus".

It just feels like you've been robbed

 

[mperdue]

First, this is not an attempt at a flame, just a legitimate observation/question.

Why is Voom willing to break up their channels for foreign markets, but are so instistant that it's "15 or Bust" here in the US? If Dish could just pick up the 5 they left up for a day, I think they would go for it. That would be a win-win for us all.

Perhaps because they had a long term contract covering 15 channels.

 

[lern4483]

First, this is not an attempt at a flame, just a legitimate observation/question.

Why is Voom willing to break up their channels for foreign markets, but are so instistant that it's "15 or Bust" here in the US? If Dish could just pick up the 5 they left up for a day, I think they would go for it. That would be a win-win for us all.

Thats a good question.

Ive wondered that myself.

I guess the answer is they had
a binding contract for 15 years with dish.

dish broke the contract. Voom for litigation reasons must
not submit to the whims of dish.

dish is going to take it on the chin on this one..My gut feelings of course.
Or possibly, before to late, something can be worked out..

Who knows? but time is running out.

 

[psychicmind]

First, this is not an attempt at a flame, just a legitimate observation/question.

Why is Voom willing to break up their channels for foreign markets, but are so instistant that it's "15 or Bust" here in the US? If Dish could just pick up the 5 they left up for a day, I think they would go for it. That would be a win-win for us all.

I've posted several times before, Voom International is hardly dead (and not dependent on CableVison's renewal). Offering individual channels in regions like Africa and Asia (look at their economies) is very different than doing business in the US (the top global economy). It's comparing apples with oranges.

 

[ekilgus]

Me too!!

When Dish shut down Voom and replaced them with commercialized HD channels that often (some mostly) broadcast in SD and/or stretchovision, I felt like my Jaguar had just been totalled and the insurance company said "not to worry -- we have a replacement here -- a Taurus".

It just feels like you've been robbed

A Taurus? Considering the replacement content thrown at us (WFN) a better analogy would be a Yugo.

 

[Peter Parker]

Thats a good question.

Ive wondered that myself.

I guess the answer is they had
a binding contract for 15 years with dish.

dish broke the contract. Voom for litigation reasons must
not submit to the whims of dish.

dish is going to take it on the chin on this one..My gut feelings of course.
Or possibly, before to late, something can be worked out..

Who knows? but time is running out.

SOMEONE broke the contract. DISH terminated it after an alleged breach.


Persoanlly I think that VOOM should not have sat content with the DISH contract. They should have used it to get started and then marketed the service in whole or in part to others. Even if they wound up losing revenue from DISH they could have had other customers to offset that---and perhaps they only could have operated a smaller number of channels. . Insted they were a captive of the deal. There was no way that the VOOM business model could succeed.

 

[grb]

A Taurus? Considering the replacement content thrown at us (WFN) a better analogy would be a Yugo.

You're right! I only used Taurus because the Taurus began to look like a Jaguar (or vice-versa) -- especially in the rear end, and therefore the replacement for the Jaguar would be a cheap rip-off, like the HD replacements for the Voom channels.

BTW, do they still make the Yugo? I haven't seen one in the U.S. or Canada for many years...

 

[lern4483]

SOMEONE broke the contract. DISH terminated it after an alleged breach.


Persoanlly I think that VOOM should not have sat content with the DISH contract. They should have used it to get started and then marketed the service in whole or in part to others. Even if they wound up losing revenue from DISH they could have had other customers to offset that---and perhaps they only could have operated a smaller number of channels. . Insted they were a captive of the deal. There was no way that the VOOM business model could succeed.

Food for thought. Your on the money on this. I question why Voom would make dish their ''only'' national acct?

You have a great product why not get it on more providers.
Price too high? Im not sure what the answer is.

But again, we the the consumers suffers when lose great programming.

To this day, I can only think of HDNET as being close to Voom.

 

[Spatch]

Food for thought. Your on the money on this. I question why Voom would make dish their ''only'' national acct?

You have a great product why not get it on more providers.
Price too high? Im not sure what the answer is.

But again, we the the consumers suffers when lose great programming.

To this day, I can only think of HDNET as being close to Voom.

If it was a great product I think they would be in demand. So far I don't see anyone beating down their doors to get their product.

In theory voom is a great product, but to many channels were not mainstream enough for the average customer and the repeats that occurred on not only a daily but monthly basis killed them.

 

[Apologist]

If it was a great product I think they would be in demand. So far I don't see anyone beating down their doors to get their product.

In theory voom is a great product, but to many channels were not mainstream enough for the average customer and the repeats that occurred on not only a daily but monthly basis killed them.

These new additions E* added are far from being a great product! In fact most of those channels suck. You have no other reason to be in this thread than to start crap.

 

[Spatch]

These new additions E* added are far from being a great product! In fact most of those channels suck. You have no other reason to be in this thread than to start crap.

I never said the new channels were great. All I was doing was adding my opinion that most people don't see voom as a great product. Ohterwise they would still be on Dish.

 

[Apologist]

I never said the new channels were great. All I was doing was adding my opinion that most people don't see voom as a great product. Ohterwise they would still be on Dish.

Fair enough. IMO the only reason Voom is not on E* is because of $. Charlie didn't like the contract and his actions demonstrated that. Whether Voom or E* was responsible for the constant repeats from last Sept-March I guess we will never know.

 

[8bitbytes]

If it was a great product I think they would be in demand. So far I don't see anyone beating down their doors to get their product.

In theory voom is a great product, but to many channels were not mainstream enough for the average customer and the repeats that occurred on not only a daily but monthly basis killed them.

See, that's the problem right there: Voom is a fantastic product. The problem is most people want trash tv with recognizable faces and not high quality programming.

Voom is great, Joe Sixpack is stupid.

 

[Peter Parker]

But VOOM is business. For businesses to survive a business needs to appeal to a large enough clientele to pay the bills. To be truthful I don't knoe if the problem is hat no other carrier excet Cablevision and DISH was interested or whether it has not been marketed properly but either way the fact remains that they are down to ONE customer.

Now you can blame the public or the carriers if you want. butit is hard not to blame the comapny that either could not figure out how to market it or stubbornly resisted doing so.

 

[lern4483]

All run of the mill

See, that's the problem right there: Voom is a fantastic product. The problem is most people want trash tv with recognizable faces and not high quality programming.

Voom is great, Joe Sixpack is stupid.

Unfortuneatley, thats the case all over. Anytime something creative comes along
it does not make it.

I remember a great channel called ''trio'' really great cancelled shows got aired on this channel.

What happened...channel got cancelled. But this happens way to much. The general publick mostly wants run of the mill stuff.

We '' of evolved tastes'' are in the minority. We are not catored to.

I know it sounds arrogant..but thats the way i feel.

If only Voom as a DBS system made it, dish could play all the shell games they wanted to. We would have a true choice!

We dont have much of a choice. All the other system look exactly the same..

BORING, DULL and uninteresting!

oh hum....

 

[ekilgus]

I suspect the primary reason we don't see VOOM on the other carriers (D* or cable) is that they would have had to take the same contract and the same 15 channels that E* had.
I think D* and the others would have jumped at VOOM if they could have selected the channels they wanted to carry with a better rate than E* was paying but VOOM couldn't do this without being forced to restructure the contract with E*. Just my thoughts,

 

[Apologist]

I suspect the primary reason we don't see VOOM on the other carriers (D* or cable) is that they would have had to take the same contract and the same 15 channels that E* had.
I think D* and the others would have jumped at VOOM if they could have selected the channels they wanted to carry with a better rate than E* was paying but VOOM couldn't do this without being forced to restructure the contract with E*. Just my thoughts,

Agreed

 

[FitzAusTex]

The repeat debate is ridiculous. Now that I dont have Voom, the amount of repeats I've encountered on the other channels I do get equal or exceed any other channel.

The main issue surrounding repeats on Voom had to do with the schedule of repeats, and the fact that Voom repeats in 4 to 6 hour blocks on most of their channels. If you recall, the original Food Network HD and HGTV HD did the same thing, but are now simulcasts of the SD channels. I preferred the original to the simulcasts, even with the blocks of repeats. I knew the shows on those channels would ALWAYS be HD. With the simulcasts, it is hit or miss (and mostly miss) as to whether we get an HD show or a stretched mess. Also factor in that nearly every one of the non-Voom channels have nearly 8 hours of infomercials overnight, which, to me, makes it easier to defend Voom's repeats.

Now to my real point. The fact that Voom had a national footprint on E* was good for Voom. It would have been better if D* and others had also gotten Voom at the same time that E* began carrying it, but we all know until last September D* had less than 10 HD channels for 3 or 4 YEARS. In September D* quickly filled D10 up with the mainstream stuff, and are now awaiting use of D11 which will be used considerably for HD LILs. Most cable providers are CURRENTLY removing their analog channels and attempting SDV to deal with their capacity issues.

Adding 15 HD channels from 2005 till now has been pretty much beyond any provider's capacity. Factor in that most providers will focus on the mainstream stuff first, and rightfully so. As such, it isnt at all surprising that Voom isnt carried by the major providers.

Also, Voom isnt THAT niche. Everyone likes to state that, but what channel ISN'T niche? Not a damn one of them.

I'm also weary of the argument that Voom is a no-name network. Most of the channels that many of us know and love were no-name channel at some point...HDNet, FX, Speed, Universal HD, MGM, HD Smithsonian HD, etc.

Of course I think that Rainbow Media needs to market Voom better, and if HD capacity constraints were not an issue with every single provider, as is currently the case, then Voom would probably be added by most of these providers, at least as a premium add-on like HBO.

Kinda bad timing, that a truly unique set of commercial-free channels with my favorite type of content is no longer available to me in Texas by US content providers. If I still lived in the house I grew up in on Long Island, I'd have access to it, but I digress.

Anyway, just my feelings on the situation. I'm sure I'll get pounded by some, but so be it.

 

[psychicmind]

But VOOM is business. For businesses to survive a business needs to appeal to a large enough clientele to pay the bills. To be truthful I don't knoe if the problem is hat no other carrier excet Cablevision and DISH was interested or whether it has not been marketed properly but either way the fact remains that they are down to ONE customer.

Now you can blame the public or the carriers if you want. butit is hard not to blame the comapny that either could not figure out how to market it or stubbornly resisted doing so.

Who said Voom U.S. was a failure?

They had a business agreement with Dish that could have allowed for profit in 2009.

Someone broke the agreement. If it is found to be Voom, then yes, they are a total failure. If it is found to be Dish, then Voom's business plan was destroyed by
Dish and not of their own individual doing.

Why does Voom need to break up their 15 Pack for other carriers or lower their standards/policy when Dish agreed to carry them for many many years?

Voom based their business plan and annual growth on their contract with Dish. If Dish broke the agreement, then Dish killed Voom and owes them $1,000,000,000.

 

[riffjim4069]

I suspect the primary reason we don't see VOOM on the other carriers (D* or cable) is that they would have had to take the same contract and the same 15 channels that E* had.
I think D* and the others would have jumped at VOOM if they could have selected the channels they wanted to carry with a better rate than E* was paying but VOOM couldn't do this without being forced to restructure the contract with E*. Just my thoughts,

Bingo!

We have always known the Affiation Agreeement was non-exclusive. However, I have also said that the "agreement" made it difficult for VOOM to break up the 15-channel lineup from a business standpoint because they would be required to offer the same conditions to E*. This was my hypothesis since 2005 (when questioning why VOOM would not break-up the 15-channel lineup when dealing with Verizon, Comcast, etc.), this is what I restated when VOOM filed their case back in January and, just recently as of 24 June, this is what was confirmed in E*'s Answer and Counterclaim: VOOM had a 15-year affiliation agreement with EchoStar; all VOOM HD channels were to be in available in the lowest tier HD subscription tier (i.e. DishHD Essentials); there was a condended penetration requirements (similar to the spend requirement) in the agreement (something like 93% according to filings); E* paid VOOM anywhere from $3.45 to $6.45 per subscriber depending on the year of the contract.

Rainbow Media has been very successful schlocking their wares. In fact, here are their Viewing Subscribers (source) at the end of 2007:...

AMC - 84.4 million
WE - 57.2 million
IFC - 44.6 million
Fuse - 47.0 million

...but VOOM only had 2.1 million viewing subscribers. We now know why...if VOOM broke up their 15-channel lineup here in the U.S. market, they kiss their sweet deal with E* good-bye. Anyway, there is some really good information, along with all the court E-filings, in the "First amended complaint filed in Voom vs. Echostar Lawsuit" thread.

Whether you like VOOM or not, there is no way in hell we shouldn't see subscriber numbers in the 10s of millions some of their more popular channels like Monsters, Equator, Rush, World Cinema, etc. So what is VOOM going to do now that they are no longer "locked" into this pseudo-exclusive agreement with E*? Will they shuttle the VOOM service or keep it minimally operational in the hope of winning a really large lawsuit with E*, or will they mass market their chanels like we all wanted back in 2005? We shall see. Personally, I would love to see some of the VOOM chanels pop up on E*, FiOS, etc.