VIP 722 TV2 picture quality gets worse over time

[sjvirchow]

I had the TV2 Modulator setup since Jan 2011 when I got Dish service on Channel 60 Air. Around September, it got very fuzzy, but not exactly "snowy", just fuzzier. I changed the modulator to channel 73 Cable and that fixed it, and I was back to a clear picture. Well tonight, the same thing happened. I changed the modulator setting to channel 80 Cable and that fixed it.

Why is this happening, and is it time to sign back up for the protection plan (Is my 722 out the door?)

 

[MattG@DISH]

Did resetting the receiver make any difference, or did you skip straight to changing the modulator? Make sure there's no loose or damaged cable anywhere as well.

 

[TheKrell]

I can't imagine how raising the frequency would help get rid of fuzziness, blurriness, or snow. Usually if you have marginal signal strength, the high frequencies are the first to go. (FWIW I have never used the RF output on my 722 because the picture was snowy.)

 

[sjvirchow]

Did resetting the receiver make any difference, or did you skip straight to changing the modulator? Make sure there's no loose or damaged cable anywhere as well.

Resetting the receiver didn't make a difference, but changing the modulator setting to channel 80 on Cable did help.

 

[gdarwin]

I am using RF on the 922 on channels 25(tv1) and 27(tv2), both air. No problems. Did the same channels on the 622, no problem again. Might be the TV.

 

[KKlare]

Did you gain a new OTA channel that could be interfering with the dish signal?
It's hard to keep track of the OTA and cable mapping, they are the same spectrum.
So which OTA channels exist for you? Move 2 channels as a time to test.
-Ken

 

[sjvirchow]

Did you gain a new OTA channel that could be interfering with the dish signal?
It's hard to keep track of the OTA and cable mapping, they are the same spectrum.
So which OTA channels exist for you? Move 2 channels as a time to test.
-Ken

Nope, no new OTA channels. And I'm not convinced it's the TV because I change the modulator setting and it looks fine. However if I go back to channel 60, it looks fuzzy, and now channel 73 looks fuzzy, which makes me think it's the 722. All the connections on the tri-plexer and ground block outside are fine. And if I disconnect the dish feed from the tv and plug in something else (like a VCR) and change it's setting to display on a certain channel and setting (Air, Cable) it looks fine.

 

[dwarren2]

Is the TV input set to cable or ota on the tv? Try doing a scan on the TV and see if the channel that it sees is the one set up in the modulator.

 

[caam1]

With the digital transition, the channels above channel 51 are now available for other applications (two-way radio, cell phone, etc.) I had to change one of my DVRs from channel 64 to 66 because some other service in my area started transmitting on 64.

 

[sjvirchow]

Is the TV input set to cable or ota on the tv? Try doing a scan on the TV and see if the channel that it sees is the one set up in the modulator.

It's on channel 80 on Cable. The only thing that TV is connected to is the 722. The 722 has an OTA antenna connected to it, but the TV2 tuner can't see it, so it shouldn't interfere. I did a channel scan, and it only saw channel 80. Obviously it won't see channel 80 if it's set to Air because Air channels don't go that high.

 

[ZachS@DISH]

It's on channel 80 on Cable. The only thing that TV is connected to is the 722. The 722 has an OTA antenna connected to it, but the TV2 tuner can't see it, so it shouldn't interfere. I did a channel scan, and it only saw channel 80. Obviously it won't see channel 80 if it's set to Air because Air channels don't go that high.

Do you have anything you can hook up to that TV using coax cable just to make sure its not the coax input on the TV?

 

[upsss]

@sjvirchow, What you need to do is verify that your coax cable between your TV2 and the Home Distribution output is in perfect shape. Old coax cable with poor connectors termination will cause these kind of problems. Get a new good quality RG6 coax about the same length as you present coax and see if the picture quality improves (you can temporarily move the TV closer to the receiver). Switching the frequency of the output doesn't troubleshoot your problem. If your existing coax is questionable and as the old UHF spectrum is transformed, you can have new RF services popping without any warning causing this kind of interference. BTW, if possible, I would use the Composite output (+Audio), picture quality is much better than RF coax!

 

[sjvirchow]

@sjvirchow, What you need to do is verify that your coax cable between your TV2 and the Home Distribution output is in perfect shape. Old coax cable with poor connectors termination will cause these kind of problems. Get a new good quality RG6 coax about the same length as you present coax and see if the picture quality improves (you can temporarily move the TV closer to the receiver). Switching the frequency of the output doesn't troubleshoot your problem. If your existing coax is questionable and as the old UHF spectrum is transformed, you can have new RF services popping without any warning causing this kind of interference. BTW, if possible, I would use the Composite output (+Audio), picture quality is much better than RF coax!

The TV2 is on the completely opposite end of my house and up two floors, not an option. There's no way I can find that much RG6 lying around my house. Switching the frequency of the output does help troubleshoot, because previously it didn't look clear, and now that the frequency is switched it does. And how could new RF services interfere with the TV when the TV is connected to absolutely nothing else but the 722?

 

[sjvirchow]

Do you have anything you can hook up to that TV using coax cable just to make sure its not the coax input on the TV?

Yes.

And if I disconnect the dish feed from the tv and plug in something else (like a VCR) and change it's setting to display on a certain channel and setting (Air, Cable) it looks fine.

 

[upsss]

The TV2 is on the completely opposite end of my house and up two floors, not an option. There's no way I can find that much RG6 lying around my house. Switching the frequency of the output does help troubleshoot, because previously it didn't look clear, and now that the frequency is switched it does. And how could new RF services interfere with the TV when the TV is connected to absolutely nothing else but the 722?

I repeat, Switching the frequency of the output doesn't troubleshoot your problem. That is the difference between figuring out the problem and temporarily "fixing" the problem. That is the difference between an EE troubleshooting a problem and an appliance user trying to fix a problem. As far as your question, if a coax cable is not perfectly shielded (as most RG59, RG6 are double shielded for that reason) and/or the connectors are not terminated properly, that is precisely how an undesired RF signal will interfere with your TV signal.

 

[ZachS@DISH]

Yes.

Ah, I missed that one. Can you hook up TV1 to the home distribution output and see if it works on TV1 or if you get this same picture quality?

 

[rocket69]

modulators do fail most of the time in 48hrs . but it could be out side signals mucking up your signal or a falling part other then your box or just the tv is on its last leg.

Most of the outside signal jamming iv seen have been from Fire/police stations or the HAM op down the street. For those issues we use an 10 db adjustable amplifier uhf/vhf feed the in direct from the 722 and the out to the diplexer/Triplexer. setting the amp to low prior then slowly bump it up till the pic is good. ( This is not approved by dish and could have the FCC at your door if done wrong)

 

[sjvirchow]

Great... well I called dish and they said to set it to a channel lower than 60 on Air.

 

[Nyth]

The discussion hits one of my pet peeves with channel numbering and frequency differences between cable mode and antenna mode. Channels 2-13 were the same in both modes but 14 and higher were completely different. Channel 73 in cable mode is lower in frequency than channel 60 antenna mode. In fact, it is actually close to channel 22 antenna mode. (But 2MHz offset).

For consistancy, I never use cable mode. If I need to drop the freq, I go to ch 21 or 25. One of my biggest headaches is a setup with 2 TVs mirrored/cloned off TV2 and the customer calls dish and the CSR has the cusomer change to cable 73, gets everything screwed up and I have to go out and spend 2 minutes getting it all back to where it belongs. Even worse in when TV! in turned on to mirror that one. I have a customer with 8 TVs running off of an 222k. 'His' channel is 23 and and 'her' channel is 25. They can watch 2 different things on any two TVs' in the house. (One HD, seven SD) I told him under no circumstance to call Dish for help, or he will own me.

I have years of experience trouble shooting analog signal quality/strength issues for TV2 distribution. In my experience, the biggest culprits are poor connections and too many splitters. Followed closely by RG59 (and once I even saw RG58 cable, (shudder)), and corroded fittings in exposed outdoor connections. Signals passing backwards through taps and splitters does not help either. My best friend is a 30 year-old analog antenna meter that I inherited from a retired tv repairman. The original standard for a clear picture on a TV was 0 db (equal to 1 mV) (think 1940s). Modern electronics has no problem with -10db. If I remember correctly, the last time I measured the output on an 625 TV 2 it was about 50 db. A cable company supplying an analog service was usually trying to get about 20 db to the side of the house. A 2 way splitter with drop about 3.5 db, a 4 way looses 7 db and an eight way is 10.5 db. If you have an amplifier, they have a limit an how strong a signal you can feed INTO them with out saturating the circuits and causing so much distortion that the picture actually comes out WORSE. My experience with amps is a signal stronger than about 10 db on the input can cause problems.

I saw a customer install 3 amps in series because he said his his signal was so bad. I found ONE bad connection in his outside cable connection box. I replaced it and bypassed his amps and he had a nice clear picture again.

If you are interested in the channel allocations, here is a nice table:
Television Frequency Table

 

[sjvirchow]

Interesting. Thank you for the info!