Verizon buying Frontier

[MartyDe]

This sounds like a big deal.

Verizon to Buy Frontier for $9.6 Billion in Broadband Push

(Bloomberg) -- Verizon Communications Inc. agreed to buy rival telecommunications operator Frontier Communications Parent Inc. for about $9.59 billion as the New York phone giant looks to expand its high-speed internet business. Most Read from BloombergThe Outsized Cost of Expanding US RoadsHow...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Juan]

It was bigger when they spun off Frontier

 

[ncted]

I guess VZW finally realized 5G was never going to be the panacea they thought it would be. Pretty sad that they ever thought it would be. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in our business leaders.

Buying the company you sold most of your wireline assets to after they go through bankruptcy to get rid of a lot of their debt is also a very bad look. The FTC should reject this as anti-competitive IMHO.

 

[harshness]

The FTC should reject this as anti-competitive IMHO.

Since their primarily taking back what was once theirs, what's anti-competitive about it? Fiber turned out to be a skinny hog for Verizon (and Frontier) and the outlook isn't improving.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

There are areas where Frontier took over other companies like they did here when they took over AT&T in Connecticut.

 

[ncted]

Since their primarily taking back what was once theirs, what's anti-competitive about it? Fiber turned out to be a skinny hog for Verizon (and Frontier) and the outlook isn't improving.

OK, perhaps a long-con fraud is a better description.

We'll make another company take on a ton of debt to buy our overpriced wireline assets because someone has the brilliant idea that making data go fast through the air is somehow easier than making data go fast through cables, and we'd rather dump billions in capital on radio waves that other people are using already. Yes, we still have to run cables to the multitude of new antennas required to make the new radio stuff work, but never mind that.

The whole wireless thing doesn't turn out to sell as well as we thought, so let's buy that company we sold our wireline assets to for a song since the went through bankruptcy to discharge a lot of their debt and have actually been starting to deliver a decent, modern product that people seem to want.

IDK: I've always found Verizon to be a really shady company. When I used to deal with GTE, it was like dealing with normal human beings, while the VZ people always acted like they were doing us a favor be acknowledging our existence. The prices were always higher than promised, and the service was never as good as promised. I could totally see the upper management deciding to use Frontier as their patsy.

 

[harshness]

We'll make another company take on a ton of debt to buy our overpriced wireline assets because someone has the brilliant idea that making data go fast through the air is somehow easier than making data go fast through cables, and we'd rather dump billions in capital on radio waves that other people are using already.

What does this have to do with Frontier?

 

[ncted]

What does this have to do with Frontier?

Frontier is the company that Verizon dumped their wireline business on. The debt from buying so much of Verizon's legacy business, along with some other acquisitions like Scott mentioned, is the reason they had so much debt and had to declare bankruptcy. Much of the blame lies with Frontier not recognizing the investment required to modernize what Verizon and AT&T sold them of course.

Verizon thought everything was going to be wireless in the future, but that has been an expensive mistake on their part. 5G has been a dud revenue-wise, and wireless data is not growing they way they expected. Now they are trying to buy their way out of it by snatching up Frontier at a discount -- a discount only because they have a lot less debt than they would without going through chapter 11.

 

[harshness]

Frontier is the company that Verizon dumped their wireline business on.

Frontier wasn't forced. They acquired the Verizon properties (including a portion of the FIOS plant).

I don't think it is reasonable to assert that Verizon is the bad guy based on that acquisition.

 

[ncted]

Frontier wasn't forced. They acquired the Verizon properties (including a portion of the FIOS plant).

I don't think it is reasonable to assert that Verizon is the bad guy based on that acquisition.

I like the term "coerced" more than "forced." At a minimum, the Frontier execs were "incentivized." They certainly weren't performing their fiduciary responsibilities for the company. Anyone paying attention at the time could see that.

 

[harshness]

I like the term "coerced" more than "forced." At a minimum, the Frontier execs were "incentivized." They certainly weren't performing their fiduciary responsibilities for the company.

What pressure was Verizon applying?

If Verizon somehow put lipstick on a sow, that's entirely on the Frontier board for not doing their due diligence.

 

[Juan]

I guess VZW finally realized 5G was never going to be the panacea they thought it would be. Pretty sad that they ever thought it would be. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in our business leaders.

Buying the company you sold most of your wireline assets to after they go through bankruptcy to get rid of a lot of their debt is also a very bad look. The FTC should reject this as anti-competitive IMHO.

They didn't sell "most" ..just the rural gte stuff...and parts of California, Texas and Florida

 

[Juan]

OK, perhaps a long-con fraud is a better description.

We'll make another company take on a ton of debt to buy our overpriced wireline assets because someone has the brilliant idea that making data go fast through the air is somehow easier than making data go fast through cables, and we'd rather dump billions in capital on radio waves that other people are using already. Yes, we still have to run cables to the multitude of new antennas required to make the new radio stuff work, but never mind that.

The whole wireless thing doesn't turn out to sell as well as we thought, so let's buy that company we sold our wireline assets to for a song since the went through bankruptcy to discharge a lot of their debt and have actually been starting to deliver a decent, modern product that people seem to want.

IDK: I've always found Verizon to be a really shady company. When I used to deal with GTE, it was like dealing with normal human beings, while the VZ people always acted like they were doing us a favor be acknowledging our existence. The prices were always higher than promised, and the service was never as good as promised. I could totally see the upper management deciding to use Frontier as their patsy.

It was the employees they sent to Frontier that saved money...then Frontier dumped most of the management ones a year later...their verizon salaries were too much for frontier

 

[ncted]

What pressure was Verizon applying?

If Verizon somehow put lipstick on a sow, that's entirely on the Frontier board for not doing their due diligence.

Money, and/or probably stock incentives. There was a lot of talk at the time about Frontier leadership getting big paydays due to the deal. It isn't like bankruptcy courts go after previous compensation of execs or board members to pay off debts. Once they got paid, the money is gone. I've been through enough M&A to have some sense of how this works. Bay-Nortel, GlaxoWellcome-SmithKlineBeacham, and McClatchy-KnightRidder were the biggest ones. They all gave their boards and execs lots of compensation to get the mergers done, so where is the incentive to actually make a good decision for the company's long-term health?

 

[harshness]

They all gave their boards and execs lots of compensation to get the mergers done, so where is the incentive to actually make a good decision for the company's long-term health?

Who is this "they" in this case?

 

[Juan]

Who is this "they" in this case?

The institutions that own the majority of stock

 

[harshness]

The institutions that own the majority of stock

Isn't that who you should be blaming?

 

[Juan]

Isn't that who you should be blaming?

I'm not blaming anybody...it's a good thing on the surface

 

[harshness]

I'm not blaming anybody...it's a good thing on the surface

I meant to ask the question of ncted.

 

[telstar_1]

I've seen the progression here from Illinois Bell to GTE to Verizon to Frontier. I remember thinking "what's a Verizon," but I digress. I had Frontier DSL until a local-regional (Mid Century) put fiber into the town, and have now been on that for a half-dozen years. Currently I have broadband availability from cable, phone co., a WISP and fiber.

So if the phone co. (Frontier/Verizon) decides to go FTTH, I would wonder how they would do the infrastructure. Mid Century is all below ground, while Frontier is on poles like the old days. Would they be putting their fiber up there, or might they also look to go underground?