Upgrading from 5.1 to ? Opinions please

[WalksInDarkness]

Hi All,

I have a DD 5.1 system, with an Onkyo 75W/Ch reciever and Cambridge SoundWorks Newton speakers. The Onkyo is actually capable of DD 6.1, but for some reason the salesman never offered me a rear channel when I bought it 2 years ago. I never really gave it much thought, because I assumed I couldn't make use of it since DVD usually just say DD 5.1 on the back. They still make the speaker model series, so I am thinking of adding the rear channel (it would only cost me $150 for the speaker and all the accessories). But now I see that DD 7.1 is a common setup, but I would need a new reciever.
So I have two questions:
1) Does 6.1 sound significantly better than 5.1?
2) Does 7.1 sound significantly better than 6.1?

TIA,
Will

 

[berck]

I have a Yamaha 6.1 setup. I've also noticed that most of the systems now days have gone to 7.1, but there isn't any 7.1 content. Your're right that most of the DVD's are 5.1, but many will come with DD-EX or DTS-ES. These of course take advantage of the rear channel. It does seem to give a bit more surround feeling. I can only assume that the rear center from 6.1 is split between the two rear center L-R speakers. Hence, its mono until some true 7.1 content becomes available. (Although, they may try to create a stereo effect by combining some information from the Right and Left rear speakers).

My Yamaha auto detects between 5.1 and 6.1 content. Sometimes is doesn't work right with some movies. When in 5.1, the rear center will not function unless I force it to. When in 6.1, the receiver sends the content to the rear center.

I still wonder if 7.1 wasn't created just to sell more speakers. ;-)

 

[charper1]

I have the Yamaha RX-Z9 9.1 and can tell you that correctly selected and installed loudspeakers (based on your environment) improve the sound, and in my opinion the DTS being the better tech.

The sound field are thus;

5.1 channel surround sound format is five discrete (independent) channels (front center, front left, front right, surround left, surround right; giving it the "5" designation) of full frequency sound (with respect to the range of human hearing, which ideally ranges from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz), plus a sixth channel for low frequency effects (LFE). The LFE signal is usually reserved for the subwoofer speaker(s), or those speakers capable of reproducing low frequency ranges. The low frequency effects channel gives DTS the ".1" designation. The ".1" signifies that the sixth channel is not full frequency, as it contains only deep bass frequencies (3 Hz to 120 Hz).

Extended Surround formats: Dolby Digital EX & DTS Extended Surround (DTS-ES)

The difference between the new Extended Surround formats and their 5.1-channel surround sound counterparts is the addition of a surround back channel, whose corresponding speaker is placed behind the audience. This allows certain soundtrack effects to be presented behind the audience, thereby achieving more enveloping and complete 360° surround sound. (Remember that in the 5.1-channel surround sound formats, the surround speakers are placed one on each side of the audience - not behind them.) Additionally, while the Extended Surround sound format calls for one surround back channel, two surround back speakers are generally recommended for better envelopment. Acknowledging this widely accepted industry position, some high-end receiver manufacturers have introduced "7.1-channel" capable receivers, with decoding and sometimes amplification for the two extra surround back channels.

Both encode the surround back channel information into the surround left and surround right channels (similar to the way the center channel is encoded for Dolby Surround Pro-Logic). This cross-channel encoding is referred to as matrix encoding, since the surround back channel is encoded and later decoded (or derived) from those of the surround left and surround right channels. Because of this matrix encoding scheme, the surround back channel is not a true discrete channel and is technically considered a 5.1- channel format. And for this reason, they are sometimes referred to as "Dolby Digital 5.1 EX" or "DTS 5.1 ES". To refer to these matrix encoded Extended Surround formats as 6.1-channel would be wrong. Both have some offering of TRUE discrete 6.1 encoding; but additional channels are all matrixed not encoded on the discs..

SEE ATTACHMENTS
A correct full 7.1 loudspeaker placement. DD Sounds good, but not the best. DTS specializes in “master quality” soundtracks with far less compression. 8.1 and 9.1 systems add the single rear center and dual rear center between the two back surround L/R. They are only matrixed, not encoded material on the disc.

 

[WalksInDarkness]

Mounting the rear channel?

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I am thinking about going with the cheapest solution, and going with 6.1 (essentially adding a rear "center" channel).

My next question is trying to deal with the problem of where/how to mount it. My main couch is very close to the rear wall. I like to recline the couch when watching movies. When reclining, my head is about 2" from the wall; so there is no room for the speaker. When I ask the "Experts" at the store, I get varying suggestion: (1) Mount it just above the head and angle it down (2) mount it at the top of the wall and angle it down (3) mount it slightly below the head and angle it up.

None of these seem like they would sound right. Has anyone else had this problem, and how did they solve it?

TIA,
Will

 

[deathfromabove]

Berck is correct. 99.9% of content is 5.1, if you are to get any 7.1 recording, it would be from a new hd-dvd, which again is mostly 5.1. A good pre-amp (JBL synthesis, or Crestron) will do a good job of simulating a 7.1 sound from 5.1 content. You can have a million speakers, but you will only enjoy what your pre-amp can decode. (a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link)

 

[charper1]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback. I am thinking about going with the cheapest solution, and going with 6.1 (essentially adding a rear "center" channel).

My next question is trying to deal with the problem of where/how to mount it. My main couch is very close to the rear wall. I like to recline the couch when watching movies. When reclining, my head is about 2" from the wall; so there is no room for the speaker. When I ask the "Experts" at the store, I get varying suggestion: (1) Mount it just above the head and angle it down (2) mount it at the top of the wall and angle it down (3) mount it slightly below the head and angle it up.

None of these seem like they would sound right. Has anyone else had this problem, and how did they solve it?

TIA,
Will

See #3 attached pic and explanation above your post. That is the correct setup sample for multi-channel sound. Don't go by what you hear, that comes direct from both DTS and DD on proper placement. Rear center will be directly between the BACK/REAR, and behind the listening position. At least 5' away or more based on your room and power. Not in the ceiling/above.

 

[loves2watch]

I currently have a 7.1 system and have had it hooked up correctly in 7.1, 6.1 and 5.1. I do have some 6.1 and 7.1 source material (DVD Audio and SACD and although they do sound impressive the 5.1 sounds excellent day in and day out. I am sorry I spent the money on extra speakers when all is said and done the 5.1 DD and DTS will blow you away. Since it will be a long time if at all when we see 7.1 material readily available, it is just not worth the extra expense unless you just want to brag that you have it or are some sort of digital audio purist (although I think that in itself is an oxymoron).