Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled

[riffjim4069]

I've not yet heard a word about it on any broadcast media.

Besides being linked to the Yahoo main webpage, I heard it broadcast on our local news radio, WTOP, on my drive home from work...the story is even linked on their website: http://www.wtop.com/ and http://www.wtop.com/?nid=111&sid=885677

Likewise, it was also on the first evening television news broadcast I turned on: http://www.wjla.com and http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0806/353849.html

Additionally, the story was also in both D.C. area newspapers: Washington Post and Washington Times.

It sounds like your local news agencies are asleep at the teletype...

 

[dungenessHD]

What, me worry?

It's like Ford suing Maserati because Henry invented the production line. Moral: Don't even attempt to improve upon an obvious concept (recording electronic impulses) by building better machines. If you go, the Luddites will getcha!

 

[Mtnmike]

In retrospect, these events will just give Dish more spotlight in the media (some think they went out of business) and when the dust settles, Dish will gain more subs!

Even if Tivo wins, it will only put a minor dent in Dish, and might put out Tivo alltogether eventually , but the media attention Dish will gain will be rewarding.

The remarks in this string are becoming more and more reminiscent of the VOOM forum in its last months.

 

[shanewalker]

I was there and this isn't like the final days of V* at all...do miss V*, glad the channels survived.

Biggest differences--V* didn't have 12 milion subs and the kind of forward momentum that E* has right now. Dish isnt' going anywhere.

 

[Mtnmike]

I didn't say this was like the final days of V*. Just that the remarks in this string are reminiscent of the final months of VOOM. Straw grabbing remarks that we constantly saw in the V* forums that were out of touch with the reality of the situation .

Dish will not fail nor cease to exist because of this; but this situation spells hard times in the months ahead for the company and its subscribers. The forward momentum you claim in your response has just hit a brick wall at high speed. Even the best of realistic outcomes is going to be damaging to both the company and its subscribers, including a decline of the current customer base and the ablity to attract new customers.

As I said in an earlier post: "The ongoing legal costs of this decision will be passed on to the customer. If the decision is upheld (which is a real possibility) DISH is doomed for the forseeable future. In any event until this is settled, this action is going to have a serious impact on Dish's ability to compete for new customers in a very competive market and that translates into additional revenue loss. The pressure is on DISH to find a way to settle, and TIVO holds most all the cards. DISH loses regardless if the court decides or they settle.

In the meantime stock will continue to plunge and company worth will drop (not a good thing) while operating costs go up and customer base stagnates or falls. Do the math and be prepared to pay for this disaster if you are a DISH customer. Increased cost to the customer will result in more defections and the competition will seize this opportunity to offer more incentives to jump from DISH (and the beat goes on)."

This court decision was all over the National and Local News media when it broke. In today's world most who watch the news never take the time to dig deeper and certainly don't belong to or visit internet forums such as we find here. They are left with one VERY NEGATIVE impression, and a big part of that group are current or potential DISH or DTV subscribers who know nothing about PQ or many of the other things constantly bantered about in these forums. With this news imbedded firmly in the back of their minds who will they pick on first impression?

 

[minnow]

Between losing the lawsuit over distant nets and now DVR functionality, Dish is on a very slippery slope to oblivion. Either one of these issues on it's own would spell disaster, but the two taken together if implemented will end in the demise of E*. As a long time customer who will be impacted by BOTH of these court orders, it appears to be a matter of days now before I am forced to go back to cable or call Direct.

 

[Maineiac]

does anyone know the actual number of E customers that have DVR"S? I know i have talked to a number of people and they do not seem interested in one and are happy with a standard receiver

 

[jimboeau]

Between losing the lawsuit over distant nets and now DVR functionality, Dish is on a very slippery slope to oblivion. Either one of these issues on it's own would spell disaster, but the two taken together if implemented will end in the demise of E*. As a long time customer who will be impacted by BOTH of these court orders, it appears to be a matter of days now before I am forced to go back to cable or call Direct.

Get a grip you people. E* isn't going anywhere. The DVR will not be shut off. Joe Q. Public will not even know this is going on so it will not affect attracting new subscribers. This will be in the appeals system for years. By that time TiVo may likely be belly up. Get ahold of yourselves.

 

[Mtnmike]

Get a grip you people. E* isn't going anywhere. The DVR will not be shut off. Joe Q. Public will not even know this is going on so it will not affect attracting new subscribers. This will be in the appeals system for years. By that time TiVo may likely be belly up. Get ahold of yourselves.

Then Joe Q public must not watch or read the news, and Joe Q Public makes up most of the current or potential customer base. And when they are paying upwards of $100 a month to watch that news on DISH I guarantee they do care and they do pay attention and it does affect their future decisions.

 

[UltrAzero Fta]

vip622

funny they got caught stealing from tivo you think they could cover there track buy changing the code on the program

 

[foghorn2]

We are beginning to sound like the monsters on maple street



.....Imagine if you will, a thousand SatGuy members being threatned to have their DVR's turned off...........

 

[bytre]

I'm surprised at all the Echostar apologists. Whether we think the patent law system is good or not, the facts are that Echostar is breaking the law, and should have to comply.

We aren't very apologetic for the hackers that Echostar goes after for violating the law.

I'm a dish network fan and longtime subscriber. I've never used a tivo, but if Dish violated their IP, they should have to license it. Or buy out Tivo so they hold the cards.

 

[Bountykiller]

q: I have a 622 and that isnt on the list of receivers on the court order... how is that right!? It has a HD ;0 So Can i assume safely that I wont be shut off? ;0

-B

 

[andrews777]

I'm surprised at all the Echostar apologists. Whether we think the patent law system is good or not, the facts are that Echostar is breaking the law, and should have to comply.

We aren't very apologetic for the hackers that Echostar goes after for violating the law.

I'm a dish network fan and longtime subscriber. I've never used a tivo, but if Dish violated their IP, they should have to license it. Or buy out Tivo so they hold the cards.

Unjust laws deserve to be violated. The penalty may be really nasty, but if the founders of the U.S. had that attitude, we wouldn't have a U.S.

Brad

 

[tnsprin]

I'm surprised at all the Echostar apologists. Whether we think the patent law system is good or not, the facts are that Echostar is breaking the law, and should have to comply.

We aren't very apologetic for the hackers that Echostar goes after for violating the law.

I'm a dish network fan and longtime subscriber. I've never used a tivo, but if Dish violated their IP, they should have to license it. Or buy out Tivo so they hold the cards.

Dish was making "dvr" machines before the first TIVO came out. It may have sold more machines than any other company. They also have some patents that they claim Tivo violates(this case is pending).

If you look at the decision even the judge thought they were probably making machines in good faith that they were not violating Tivo's patent.

 

[jimboeau]

I'm surprised at all the Echostar apologists. Whether we think the patent law system is good or not, the facts are that Echostar is breaking the law, and should have to comply.

We aren't very apologetic for the hackers that Echostar goes after for violating the law.

I'm a dish network fan and longtime subscriber. I've never used a tivo, but if Dish violated their IP, they should have to license it. Or buy out Tivo so they hold the cards.

They aren't breaking any laws until it has run it's course through the court system.

 

[Ken F]

Dish was making "dvr" machines before the first TIVO came out. It may have sold more machines than any other company. They also have some patents that they claim Tivo violates(this case is pending).

The Tivo and the Dish 7100 DVR were both announced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, 1999. However, Tivo began shipping its product well before the 7100.

The Tivo patents were reaffirmed by the USPO. The Dish patents are under review -- Tivo also claims to have prior art.

 

[odbrv]

A possible solution, if all legal processes fail, is that E* gives all the DVR owners a substitute VIP622. Then they can get additional HD revenue and all their DVR subscribers get moved to the State of the art technology. Then TIVO would have to go to court again. That should last a few years. Enough time to tweak the 622 technology to bypass the TIVO claims. I would not be buying TIVO stock right now. Buying Dish stock might not be a bad idea.

 

[Stargazer]

Even if Dish Network has to payup this licensing fee, they might have a little bit of a leverage in that they could state that they do not have to go with Tivo but with another provider for DVR service and be able to get a better rate with Tivo. If that is not allowed then no other DVR service is not allowed without Tivo getting paid for the patent for which it uses a DVR.

All PocketDishes and Archos devices would also have to quit being sold as they use the DVR functionality as well.

NO DVR SERVICE = NO BUSINESS FROM ME AND THE MAJORITY OF OTHERS THAT CURRENTLY HAVE THE DVR SERVICE FROM DISH. I'm sorry but I have to go to Directv or get a DVR device if the DVR's get shut off on Dish Network. This would really hurt Dish if the DVR service gets shut off. Me and many others have gotten way too used to the DVR functionality.

This could cause the DVR fees to go up across the board for all the providers by at least a buck or two per month.

If Tivo wins against Dish then they automatically win against all the other companies that are supposedly infringing their copyright. This would be a bit of a bigger win than they can imagine plus all DVR providers in the future would have to pay Tivo a licensing fee or use their software.

If Dish cannot shut off DVR functionality in their DVR's then they would have to replace them with regular satellite receivers. Wouldn't that be a LOT more expensive than paying the Tivo royalty? OH HECK YEAH!! LOTS LOTS LOTS LOTS more expensive. Dish would pay this fee before having the DVR receivers shut off if it meant the whole receiver would need to be shut down.

I wonder if Tivo is basing this royalty fee per receiver or per tuner.

 

[slick1ru2]

Dish is going to get through this with their DVRs whether it means paying TiVo off, buying TiVo, appealing forever or winning the court case.

As for the comment about the Pocket Dish being affected too, it isn't. I doesn't record using "Time Warp" and can be connected to a non-DVR receiver to download content real time. It is really just like the video iPod. Gasp, I hope Sony doesn't sue Dish next!