Updated: Court blocks Permanent Injuction ordering DISH DVRs disabled

[chaddux]

Some websites and blogs are reporting that the judge in the TiVo case has issued an injunction ordering DISH to disable almost all of their DVRs.

Blog Posting

Link to Scan of the Judge's Order

Updated 08.18.06: Injunction blocked pending appeal.

ECHOSTAR ANNOUNCES FEDERAL CIRCUIT BLOCKS TIVO INJUNCTION
ENGLEWOOD, Colo., August 18, 2006 – EchoStar Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: DISH) issued the following statement regarding recent developments in the Tivo Inc. v. EchoStar Communications Corp. lawsuit:

“We are pleased that this morning, the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C. temporarily blocked an injunction issued by a Texas Court, while it considers a longer-term stay of that injunction.

As a result of the stay EchoStar can continue to sell, and provide to consumers, all of its digital video recorder models. We continue to believe the Texas decision was wrong, and should be reversed on appeal. We also continue to work on modifications to our new DVRs, and to our DVRs in the field, intended to avoid future alleged infringement.”

 

[dfergie]

Just reading this... all but 192,708 must be shut off... according to this article...

 

[chaddux]

Expect an immediate appeal and a request to stay the order pending appeal. It's still very bad news for DISH. If my DVR is shut off, I'll be calling DIRECTV immediately.

 

[Ken F]

No doubt, Dish Network will settle. They really have no choice. A DVR isn't really a DVR without the ability to play content from the hard drive, which the order says Dish Network cannot do.

It will be interesting to see what sort of settlement we get. Will Dish announce that it will be using Tivo software on future products? Or will it simply license the Tivo patents?

DirecTV must really be glad they entered into that last agreement with Tivo, which says Tivo cannot sue them, at least not for any damages incurred through February, 2010.

 

[Jim S.]

We should all call for a boycott of Tivo. Abuse of the patent system like this shouldn't be allowed to stand.

 

[chaddux]

We should all call for a boycott of Tivo. Abuse of the patent system like this shouldn't be allowed to stand.

This won't convince me to get a TiVo. I've used TiVos before and I did not like them at all.

 

[Dishpointer]

This would truly suck if Dish is forced to shut them off. It would literally kill them from all of their customers canceling. That said, I can't see Dish allowing this to happen. They will either win an appeal or pay a licensing fee.

 

[briansanders007]

I guess I don't understand...what's in violation. The fact that a dvr is like a tivo? how can cable companies, d* have a dvr than? it's like telling people to shut down thier pc's except for the mac and ibm brand.

 

[RVD420]

Dish will do one or more of the following....

Appeal

Reach a deal with Tivo

Just buy out Tivo


It would be in Tivo's best interest to reach a deal.

Dish has a lawsuit filed against Tivo for their violation of patents

The 7x00 boxes which are the 192,708 that are not ordered to be shut off.

In the end if it gets nasty and a deal is not reached. When the Dish case agaist Tivo is heard and Dish wins. Dish will get all of their money back and then some.

This whole lawsuit business is far from over. But if Tivo does not reach a deal with Dish Tivo could be out of business in 2-3 years. (need time for appeals)

http://www.texarkanagazette.com/articles/2005/07/10/local_news/news/news12.txt

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=35256

 

[riffjim4069]

E* would have to refund full purchase price for all DVRs still on warranty, so they will most likely settle. Between Tivo and DSN, I expect E* to be eating a half-billion dollars or so in copyright infringement penalties and licensing fees.

Bottom line: higher monthly bills for us, the law abiding subscribers. I never did like Tivo.

 

[Ken F]

I guess I don't understand...what's in violation. The fact that a dvr is like a tivo? how can cable companies, d* have a dvr than? it's like telling people to shut down thier pc's except for the mac and ibm brand.

DirecTV has a deal with Tivo. Comcast has a deal with Tivo. Other cable companies are next in line if the decision stands, which I think it will.

DirecTV pays Tivo about $1/mo per DirecTivo, which isn't an exorbitant amount. Comcast will pay Tivo even less. And that's with Tivo providing the DVR platform software. Dish has it's own software. For years and years of infringement, Dish Network only had to pay ~$100 million. The idea that this will cost Dish Network billions of dollars to settle is just ludicrous.

How many DVRs does Dish Network have? 10 million? 10 million DVRs x $1/mo x 12 months is $120 million a year, and I would be surprised if they pay more than 30% of that.

I'm not really sure how you can put the blame on Tivo for this. Dish Network went into this years ago, knowing they were infringing, yet they did everything in their power to avoid paying Tivo a license fee for its invention.

 

[RVD420]

DirecTV has a deal with Tivo. Comcast has a deal with Tivo.

Other cable companies are next in line if the decision stands, which I think it will.

I think the decision will stand.

I also think that Tivo will lose in the lawsuit that Dish has pending (which is to be heard Spring 2007)

 

[Pepper]

Well, Dish has been collecting that $5 (now $6) per month for just about every DVR out there for years. And now they will end up passing some of that on to TiVo.

At least now there's a somewhat valid reason for its existence instead of it just being a "because we can" fee.

As long as they don't end up either (1) turning off the DVR function and making existing recordings useless, or (2) actually make my 622 work like a TiVo, I'll be happy. Otherwise I don't know what I'll do. Probably stop watching TV altogether. I'm sure as heck not going back to a VCR.

 

[SummitAdvantageRetailer]

Dish is always weighing their costs so they'll of course appeal at least once and then probably just buy TiVo. Reaching a deal with TiVo just gives life to its semi-competitor. Buying TiVo will then allow DISH/TiVo to sue cable companies on their DVR patents. TiVo was on its death bed but this injuction is giving them a lot of life. I think TiVo stocks will do well in the next month or so.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

The 7100 that is sitting on my shelf downstairs may get very valuable.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Frequently these Dish negotiations go to the wire, or beyond. They almost always work out a deal, but perhaps we'll lose our DVRs for a week or so.

I can see a "Contact your Congressman" channel being established real soon now.

 

[Jim S.]

I'm not really sure how you can put the blame on Tivo for this. Dish Network went into this years ago, knowing they were infringing, yet they did everything in their power to avoid paying Tivo a license fee for its invention.

I blame Tivo for filing for a patent knowing full well that it's flamingly stupid. Or am I mis-informed? See, I have this memory of reading that the patent claim in dispute involves recording one program while watching another. So in other words, Tivo is claiming that multitasking was a new and unique invention? Of course, the patent office is partially to blame for granting such nonsense.

 

[Greg Bimson]

In the end if it gets nasty and a deal is not reached. When the Dish case agaist Tivo is heard and Dish wins. Dish will get all of their money back and then some.

So let me explain something, which will all make you quite happy:

So Dish Network will have to settle with TiVo in the next 30 days. TiVo holds all the cards.

TiVo tells Dish Network that they'll be happy to settle: pay us a monthly licensing fee, the $90 million, and drop the other lawsuit, or no deal.

If Dish Network does take this proposed deal, TiVo doesn't have to fight the Dish Network DVR lawsuit and walks away with a truckload of money. If Dish Network does not take the proposed deal, TiVo simply lets the injunction take hold, and Dish Network loses a truckload of money from all of their DVR customers switching to other options.

Dish Network better hope their appeal on the permanent injunction is heard.

 

[Greg Bimson]

So in other words, Tivo is claiming that multitasking was a new and unique invention? Of course, the patent office is partially to blame for granting such nonsense.

No, not that multitasking is a new invention. TiVo patented the process how a video from a stream can be recorded while watching a recorded feed without introducing more processors. The Echostar DVR's use the same chips that TiVo use, to keep the cost of the unit down. However, TiVo patented the process in 1999 and received the patent from PTO in 2001. Since then, Echostar moved their DVR manufacturing in house, and practically stole the process that TiVo used to make their DVR's functional.

You can blame TiVo, you can blame the system, but in the end, you must also blame Dish Network for building the exact same system that TiVo patented. There is no coincidence that the DVR's have many of the same "Time Warp" functions.

 

[Pepper]

There is no coincidence that the DVR's have many of the same "Time Warp" functions.

There is also no coincidence that most all cars have the same number of tires and use essentially the same type of engine and drive mechanism. At least the patent office didn't allow Henry Ford to sue every other car manufacturer out of business or we'd still be driving Model T's.

These functions you refer to are not unique to DVRs, they are just the logical next step from the same functions provided in less sophisticated form by VCRs.