I got one and it didn't work for the channel I wanted.
Tribune Broadcasting Company Blacks Out DISH Customers in 33 Markets;
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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Without taking the pedantic tone of your post, I'll just clarify that it was not until 1999 that LIL was permitted (an "historical fact" as you like to call them. Sorry, I did promise none of your pedantic, pseudo-authoritative attitude. Won't happen again). Local into Local (LIL) was not legal until 1999 (Also the Intellectual Property and Communications Reform Act of 1999 was key to making LIL possible and economical for DBS who still fight to this day to preserve what that Act permits; broadcasters want to kill it).
What preceded LIL was the authorization to allow DBS to re-transmit select local stations (often Owned and Operated by each of the big 4 broadcast nets) in, at least, each time zone of the continental United States (there were a few time zones that had more than one city available such to accommodate regions within a time-zone), which are some of the stations in the year you've cited in your reply. I believe those were termed as Distant Nets. This allowed DBS subscribers to watch big 4 net programming in their time zone, but ONLY from a few of the allowed O&O's, which meant if you were in San Diego, you got your big 4 nets from the Los Angeles station. If you lived in Milwaukee, you got your big 4 content from the Chicago stations. The now defunct WB and UPN networks were offered in the SuperStations pack.
LIL meaning DBS was allowed to re-transmit ANY local station back into its originating DMA ONLY (exceptions for the Distant Nets). Hence the term Local into Local or LIL. This meant that DBS could offer locals stations in every city they wished (provided re-transmission agreements). Later in 2002 (or thereabouts) DBS was required to carry ALL locals in any DMA that they currently carried any local stations (known as Must Carry) provided an agreement for re-transmission or if a station opted for "Must Carry" status.
Now, I could be wrong in that I seem to remember the 811 (or its predecessor?) having been manufactured (but perhaps not sold?) before LIL was authorized and that the point to the OTA/ATSC tuner was because Dish could NOT provide every subscribers local station as it does today. Further, the OTA ATSC tuner did use PSIP because Dish was not providing guide data for the vast majority of stations that it could not legally re-transmit. In other words, the OTA ATSC using PSIP was seen as a necessary feature to allow subs back then to view their local stations in HD WITH EPG data using PSIP.
The point of the my post to which you have replied is that there was a time when Dish felt the need to provide PSIP as the primary (if not only?) way of providing EPG data for its early HD boxes. Since LIL, Dish seems to have made a business decisions to just not bother with PSIP because of PSIP's limitations compared to the rich, detailed, metadata provided by Tribune (now Gracenote) up to 9 days because it would include the local stations data with the same enhanced experience when using Search or other features that depend upon detailed metadata. PSIP would not allow us to include our locals 9 days out nor give us the results in some features that detailed metadata can as it does for the pay channels.
Any clarifications in polite, conversational, chat, coffee klatch tone are welcome. After all, these are billed as "Friendly Forums" on the home page. If one fancies himself a Professor, please let us know of the required credentials. Daring to claim something as an "historical fact" and then find that is not so can be embarrassing and humiliating to the one making such a claim, and that is no fun for that person nor helpful in pursing whatever the "historical facts" may be. Let's dispense with the negativity and popinjay attitudes and contribute in a manner where we are all peers and treat each other as if we were seated inches or a few feet from each other, together at a table sharing some great coffee. That makes for a "Friendly Forum" as advertised on the home page.
"No, the customer is not always right, but let him know he is wrong with dignity." - Walt Disney
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They may not have been local into local as authorized by the SHVIA 1999 legislation, but they were advertising and offering "Local Channels" in 1998 and in early 1999 before the legislation was passed. So they were offering "de-facto" local into local service in select markets. A review of their website from 1998 via Archive.org shows the following:
"Local TV channels are offered only in specified areas and may be provided through an outdoor antenna or a dish antenna. DISH NETS East and DISH NETS West Broadcast Networks, and DISH NETS Local Broadcast Networks packages by satellite are only available for private home viewing (1) within permitted areas, as determined by ZIP Code, (2) which cannot receive a Grade B intensity signal directly from local ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX affiliates with a conventional outdoor rooftop antenna and (3) which have not received cable television within the last 90 days. DISH NETS East and DISH NETS West Broadcast Networks packages not available where DISH NETS Local Broadcast Networks packages are offered."
"Your city isn't listed?! You don't live in a city?!
Don't worry... DISH NETS East and West Broadcast Networks Packages could be your solution. If you just can't seem to get a quality picture using an outdoor rooftop antenna, then you may qualify to receive DISH Network's DISH NETS East and West Broadcast Networks Packages."
At that time, they were offering locals in Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Denver, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, Minneapolis, New York, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Portland, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, St. Louis, and Washington DC. This is much more than "In at least each time zone" and not nearly all of those broadcast stations in those markets were O&O stations. New York and Los Angeles billed as Dish Nets East and Dish Nets West were offered to "white areas" outside of those markets, like the Primetime 24 used to be, apparently by 1998 they had stopped carrying the PT24 because earlier satellite charts show that they carried PT24 E&W.
As for PSIP, can you clarify how (there were hardly any stations broadcasting in ATSC prior to LIL, and not very much equipment that could receive it) they offered a receiver with PSIP prior to LIL of any form as I read this quote of yours to infer "Since LIL, Dish seems to have made a business decisions to just not bother with PSIP because of PSIP's limitations"
What HD receiver did they even make before they carried any local into local channels, be it de-facto or authorized under the first SHVIA '99?
Reviewing the website in very early 1999 shows that they offered the 2710, 3720, 4720, 5000, JVC-DVHS/5000 combo unit, and the Model 7100. In May of 2000, there was still no HD receiver being offered, this was after the official beginning of LIL.
If ATSC tuners in the receivers predated the de-facto or the authorized offering of LIL, what model is it? I can't seem to find one.
My point is, the availability of PSIP in the receivers with an ATSC tuner does not appear to be correlated with local into local. They didn't have a receiver that I have been able to find, that had an ATSC tuner before LIL came about.
Did you live in a area where you couldn't get a, what was it, "Grade B" signal? I used to get PT24 E&W and Netlink's Denver 5 and the A3 they had for a while (I would swap between PT24 and Netlink) when I had TVRO. I always was considered to live in an area where you couldn't get I believe it was at least a Grade B, I forget how that used to be. Wasn't very hard back in that time with the C-Band programmers.
No, I love in an area that I get local channel off of my rooftop antenna. Things were different back in 1998 with Dish. Basically you could get anything you wanted, locals wise.... Of course, there were not a lot of locals available then, just some major cities.
It was always quite easy to get the distant network channels from the third party packagers on C-Band too.
Actually I wasn't in the Bay Area back in the Summer of Love, 1967. I was in upstate NY. I moved to LA in late '67. I moved to my present location in 1981. There is still lots of love in SF but not the kind that interests me so much...
Mind you I have many friends and acquaintances of that persuasion....
YEH!! Airplane, Dead, Quicksilver, Big Brother, Moby...and on......
Actually I wasn't in the Bay Area back in the Summer of Love, 1967. I was in upstate NY. I moved to LA in late '67. I moved to my present location in 1981. There is still lots of love in SF but not the kind that interests me so much...
Woodstock in '69? Maybe I saw you there.
No, but if I still lived in the area in 1969 I would have been close. I worked in Poughkeepsie before moving west in '67. Now, I was at the Newport Rock festivals in 1968 in Orange County and Northridge in 1969.... Northridge was very much a warmup for Woodstock a little later in the year.Woodstock in '69? Maybe I saw you there.
I was near Catskill in '69 so it was a short trip down Rt 32 to Bethel. Didn't get really close but man what a party!
That's why I referred to you as a young man. You are young enough to be my grandson!
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