Totally new event regarding RTN feeds on 83W AMC 9

[Mr Tony]

I found that Leo signal but it didnt mess with RTN

still at a rock solid 70

 

[Tron]

I had been getting 72-75q on RTN, but in the past few days its been about 10 points lower. Still way above the threshold on a Visionsat, but notable.

 

[tvropro]

I had been getting 72-75q on RTN, but in the past few days its been about 10 points lower. Still way above the threshold on a Visionsat, but notable.

My RTN is down lately too, above threshold like you but down. I reprogrammed in the SR and Freq that helped with lock up times. I thought RTN was down because of rain here but that's not the case. It's Lukens uplink or some interference like been said here. I don't know. What is RTN's FEC my Pansat don't say it?

 

[B.J.]

My RTN is down lately too, above threshold like you but down. I reprogrammed in the SR and Freq that helped with lock up times. I thought RTN was down because of rain here but that's not the case. It's Lukens uplink or some interference like been said here. I don't know. What is RTN's FEC my Pansat don't say it?

I usually use my Broadlogic card to give me the FEC. I just tried it with the correct freq/SR, and it wouldn't lock. I increased the freq to 11737, and it locked easily, and interestingly reported that that freq was 1.2 MHz high (consistent with 11735 if my lnbf was 0.8 mhz high, which is typical). Anyway, I thought that was interesting, that it couldn't lock with the proper freq, but still realized what the freq was supposed to be once locked.

Anyway, the Broadlogic reported the FEC as 3/4 .

I still have to think that the problems that people (including myself with some receivers) are having with this transponder, is that the 3 nearby peaks look like a broader peak centered at 11729 to some receivers, and the AFC on them goes there. Looking at the spectrum from my Fortec (not the best), the signal never gets down to the background between those 3 peaks. Tuning higher helps on some receivers, as it must grab the closest peak, but it doesn't help on some other receivers.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Just an update,

When I got home from work this morning at 7:30 am central time, both RTN feeds on 83W were up and working. I watched "The Beav" and the talk show that followed. Shortly after 8 am, the signal began to drop gradually until about 10 or 20 minutes after 8. Then both RTN feeds went to NO AUDIO/VIDEO display, but the quality shot up to 88% on both. I assume that was Leo - 1's quality.

After a few hours, the quality dropped back down to the original level that I was getting (69-70%). But, still NO AUDIO/VIDEO.

I am going to check again tomorrow morning and monitor the signal even more closely during the same time period. I think that LEO - 1 increases its signal during that time and drowns the RTN signal. Although I don't know why LEO-1 is increasing their signal at that time as the channel (Video 1) is just broadcasting the color bars and test tone and nothing else. At least as far as I can tell.

I think I will also try my Fortec Star Dynamic at the same time and see what the results are then. I hope I can figure something out as I miss McHale's Navy in the morning now.

RADAR

 

[Corrado]

This is interesting, I have not had a problem here. RTNs on AMC9 coming in just fine, no changes in signal or quality.

 

[AcWxRadar]

This is interesting, I have not had a problem here. RTNs on AMC9 coming in just fine, no changes in signal or quality.

Corrado,

You are lucky!

I think it has a lot to do with location of the receiving station (our dish antenna location). With the identical setup, I get results which are quite different than my brother is getting 20 miles further west at his home.

At his cabin, which is about one mile away, he was getting a little better results than I was until just recently. The same time that I began having problems, he began having trouble at his cabin, too.

Evidently he has a better location at his home than he or I do at our cabins.

Where are you located? I am approximately 40 miles NW of Omaha, NE and I have a Winegard DS-2076 dish (76cm). The receivers I am using are the Coolsat 5000 and the Fortec Star Dynamic.

I am supposed to be in the 50dBW zone which requires a minimum dish size of 60 cm. My dish is fairly well above that in size.

Refer to the attached EIRP MAP.

RADAR

 

[B.J.]

This is interesting, I have not had a problem here. RTNs on AMC9 coming in just fine, no changes in signal or quality.

I still think it depends on the receiver. With the Diamond 9000 and Twinhan, it's been coming in strong for me too.

I did just notice something interesting though. I just did a spectrum scan to see if the two nearby peaks are different today, and they look pretty similar to what they did yesterday, except that the 11724 and 11729 peaks are about equal to the 11735, while yesterday, I think 11724 was a bit lower than the other two.

However then I decided to look at the transponder with my BUD, instead of the Fortec dish. I'm fed the BUD signal into the Diamond, and I noticed that the quality was fluxuating between zero and about 40 or so, not jumping, but a slow fluxuation, slowly going up, down, up, down. I thought that perhaps the polarotor on my feedhorn was acting up, so I started playing with polarity. I found that if I offset the polarity by about 15 degrees vs what all the other sats (except AMC1) have, that the quality on the RTN transponder increased to about 50, and was rock solid. I am starting to wonder if perhaps the polarity is off on the Ku side of AMC9, much as it is on AMC1. Or, alternatively, perhaps altering the polarity is reducing interferrence from a nearby satellite's transponder. I did a spectrum scan, and can see a medium width signal around 11750, that dissappears when I offset the polarity. I don't think it is coming from AMC9.
Anyway, anyone interested in experimenting, you might try changing polarity. Easiest to do with a BUD and polarotor, but if using an lnbf, you can also rotate the lnbf by about 15 deg (sorry I have no idea of which direction, you have to try both directions).

 

[B.J.]

I just tried varying the polarity on the C-band side of AMC-9, and it looks to be about 9 degrees higher than other satellites. Maybe it's the whole satellite???
Or, maybe the polarotor on my BUD is starting to go bad (luckily I have 2 spares).

 

[AcWxRadar]

I still think it depends on the receiver. With the Diamond 9000 and Twinhan, it's been coming in strong for me too.

I did just notice something interesting though. I just did a spectrum scan to see if the two nearby peaks are different today, and they look pretty similar to what they did yesterday, except that the 11724 and 11729 peaks are about equal to the 11735, while yesterday, I think 11724 was a bit lower than the other two.

However then I decided to look at the transponder with my BUD, instead of the Fortec dish. I'm fed the BUD signal into the Diamond, and I noticed that the quality was fluxuating between zero and about 40 or so, not jumping, but a slow fluxuation, slowly going up, down, up, down. I thought that perhaps the polarotor on my feedhorn was acting up, so I started playing with polarity. I found that if I offset the polarity by about 15 degrees vs what all the other sats (except AMC1) have, that the quality on the RTN transponder increased to about 50, and was rock solid. I am starting to wonder if perhaps the polarity is off on the Ku side of AMC9, much as it is on AMC1. Or, alternatively, perhaps altering the polarity is reducing interferrence from a nearby satellite's transponder. I did a spectrum scan, and can see a medium width signal around 11750, that dissappears when I offset the polarity. I don't think it is coming from AMC9.
Anyway, anyone interested in experimenting, you might try changing polarity. Easiest to do with a BUD and polarotor, but if using an lnbf, you can also rotate the lnbf by about 15 deg (sorry I have no idea of which direction, you have to try both directions).

B.J.

This is one of the adjustments that I have been experimenting with, the polarity of the LNBF as well as the focal distance.

If I go more that 8-10 degrees off center for the polarity adjustment of the LNBF, the signal completely drops out for me. I would like to experiment further and do some more "fine tuning" in the +/- 5 degree range and see if that helps. There may be a "sweet" spot in there that I missed.

RADAR

 

[B.J.]

B.J.

This is one of the adjustments that I have been experimenting with, the polarity of the LNBF as well as the focal distance.

If I go more that 8-10 degrees off center for the polarity adjustment of the LNBF, the signal completely drops out for me. I would like to experiment further and do some more "fine tuning" in the +/- 5 degree range and see if that helps. There may be a "sweet" spot in there that I missed.

RADAR

Thanks. Strange. I guess I should check my polarotor. But I'd swear that all the other sats peak at around a reading of 30 (on C band), but this one peaks at 45 on Ku and around 49 on C band.
I guess I'm going to have to do some checking on other satellites to see where they peak. Maybe something changed, since I adjusted it last.

EDIT: Fooey... I just checked Ku polarity again, and now it peaks at 39 just like C-band, however now I seem to have lost signal to some extent, ie it's locking, but lots of errors. So I don't know what's going on.

Off to another sat to test polarity.

EDIT2: Well I checked, and C band on other sats is around 35 now, instead of 30, so I guess my feedhorn moved a bit (probably when I banged the snow off it this winter). I also checked some other Ku sats, and it seems to be very variable. I'm starting to think that the plastic link that turns the KU probe might be slipping, or have some free play in it, as it seems to peak at different points in different directions. Have to do some troubleshooting on that when I get a chance.
Anyway, my polarity idea is probably wrong, and just my system having changed. But at least this explains why I was getting the strange fluxuation with the BUD.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Thanks. Strange. I guess I should check my polarotor. But I'd swear that all the other sats peak at around a reading of 30 (on C band), but this one peaks at 45 on Ku and around 49 on C band.
I guess I'm going to have to do some checking on other satellites to see where they peak. Maybe something changed, since I adjusted it last.

B.J.

In this case we are comparing your prime-focus C-band dish to my offset Ku band dish, on a motor. The results may not represent anything really conclusive here.

I have not yet played with the st that has the weird offset polarity angle.. 101.0W and one of the sats there... AMC??? 4? or is it 2? But for 83 west, adjusting the LNBF polarity did not seem to help much so far.

I will keep studying this and working on it until I find the answer!

EDIT: By the way, thanks for keeping us informed of the spikes you see on the spec analyzer! That helps provide some very useful information.

RADAR

 

[tvropro]

I was thinking of messing with my 90cm Primestar this week. We will see... when I originally peaked it, it was the day after RTN moved to AMC 9 and was in the mud. I tweaked every last drop out of it so I hate to mess with the alignment since I know my Primestar hasn't budged since the pole is in concrete and the mount is very secure. I would only gain something if something is interfering with it possibly.

 

[B.J.]

I was thinking of messing with my 90cm Primestar this week. We will see... when I originally peaked it, it was the day after RTN moved to AMC 9 and was in the mud. I tweaked every last drop out of it so I hate to mess with the alignment since I know my Primestar hasn't budged since the pole is in concrete and the mount is very secure. I would only gain something if something is interfering with it possibly.

My Primestar is mounted on a PVC pipe that is screwed to a log sitting on the ground between two rocks. It hasn't budged since last fall either, even though there has been a lot of snow and ice and ground movement. I wouldn't touch your Primestar if it's in concrete. I think that my BUD changesd polarity because when I adjust focal length, I do it by twisting the feedhorn, causing the 4 support arms to go out tangentially to the scalar ring, instead of toward the center which effectively shortens all 4 support arms at the same time, reducing the focal length (I have to re-adjust polarity each time I do this). Problem, however is when I beat on the dish with a broom to get snow off, this adjustment can sometimes change a bit if I didn't tighten the bolts well, changing both polarity and focal length. I usually check from time to time, and it seemed to be pretty close to 30 most of the winter, but I guess it has changed a bit.

 

[tvropro]

My Primestar is mounted on a PVC pipe that is screwed to a log sitting on the ground between two rocks. It hasn't budged since last fall either, even though there has been a lot of snow and ice and ground movement. I wouldn't touch your Primestar if it's in concrete. I think that my BUD changesd polarity because when I adjust focal length, I do it by twisting the feedhorn, causing the 4 support arms to go out tangentially to the scalar ring, instead of toward the center which effectively shortens all 4 support arms at the same time, reducing the focal length (I have to re-adjust polarity each time I do this). Problem, however is when I beat on the dish with a broom to get snow off, this adjustment can sometimes change a bit if I didn't tighten the bolts well, changing both polarity and focal length. I usually check from time to time, and it seemed to be pretty close to 30 most of the winter, but I guess it has changed a bit.

Im almost sure my P* is right on the money maybe I'll wait. The picture is solid and watchable now. My bud the last time I messed with the feedhorn was 1989. I set the F/D and focal length to factory specs and it hasn't moved. The 12 foot Unimesh has very strong struts. I still get outstanding quality on c band and haven't peaked it in a year and a half. Sometimes we tend to look for more signal and we end up screwing things up and it takes half the day to get us back where we were.

 

[cisco-kid]

In regard to the Ministry Signal on ( 83w LEO-1 Video 1 )

hi everyone, In regard to the Ministry Signal on ( 83w LEO-1 Video 1 ) I don't believe that there is another station on top of RTN or nearby. what leads me to this conclusion is I do not see LEO-1 on the Pansat 9000 or 9200 it is only on the panset 3500, so my final conclusion is that it is a receiver design error causing this problem,.. this is a good way to find out what kind of receiver you have. Also the Pansat 3500 is at its end of life due to the change of analog digital requirements this is only my opinion

Have a great day

 

[Larry1]

hi everyone, In regard to the Ministry Signal on ( 83w LEO-1 Video 1 ) I don't believe that there is another station on top of RTN or nearby. what leads me to this conclusion is I do not see LEO-1 on the Pansat 9000 or 9200 it is only on the panset 3500, so my final conclusion is that it is a receiver design error causing this problem,.. this is a good way to find out what kind of receiver you have. Also the Pansat 3500 is at its end of life due to the change of analog digital requirements this is only my opinion

Have a great day

This is an intersting theory..... do some tuners tune a wider signal than others?

 

[AcWxRadar]

Since May 1st when I first observed this problem, I have been investigating this anomoly. If I set the sat to 83W and the channel ot the RTN feed that I wish to watch in the morning, even though I may have lost the signal, when I check it in the early morning hours, it is back up and running. As long as I do not switch sats or channels, the RTN channel that I selected will stay on line.

As long as I keep watching the same RTN channel, it will remain there. But, if I go sat surfing or channel surfing and try to come back, then LEO-1 takes over and blots my RTN signals out.

I tried the pop bottle trick mentioned in another thread, but that did not help me in this situation. I am going to try 2 more things before I through in the towel.

First, I will relocate my dish to another area of the property and test the same dish there.

Second, I will install a larger dish than my Winegard DS-2076 and check that out.

Woud anyone like to recommend a dish that will fit a DG-280B or a DG-380 motor? One that has good gain specs?

Thanks everyone,

RADAR

 

[cisco-kid]

I must make a correction about LEO-1

Hi everyone,
I must make a correction here, today on all 3 Panset 3500,9000,9200 I am receiving ( LEO-1 Video 1 ) Levels 66, Quality 55, Down Frequency TP (11740) and RTN is on TP (11735)H, Symbol Rate (4324), Video (308), audio (256), PCR (8190), this is definitely a signal 5MHz above RTN perhaps someone is adjusting their transmitter without first looking at the surrounding frequency or not considering the Video bandwidth and I don't believe they cannot see RTN right beside them who knows

have a great day

 

[walrus1957]

Just have to through my 2 cents in on this thread. A few weeks back I was getting the RTNs in in the upper 80% quality range using a Coolsat 5000, 76cm Winegaurd dish and the QPH-031 lnb. Last week when I checked the level at my cabin lot for these channels it was around 69-71%, But that dish is detoned a bit after a major wind storm. I just checked the signal quality at home on this same setup and the quality is rock solid at 74%, this dish is spot on the arc! However this was the same dish at home that both RTNs on 83W a month ago were showing between 89-92% quality. So something diffenately is a miss here. I could not say that it is LEO upping power, but my gut feeling is that its the uplink at RTN changing something around.

The signal quality level is back to where it was when they first moved the RTNs to 83W, if you remember a month after the transsition the quality jumped up 10-20%. I do not recal anyone stating anything about LEO transmition changing during this time frame?