OTHER Totally ignorant about FTA

[ScottOK]

This is where a decent satellite meter comes into play and saves you a lot of fiddling around. Make sure your pole is plumb and after you mount the motor make sure your receiver has your latitude and longitude set and set your receiver to your due south satellite and the motor will move to where it thinks it needs to be. Then put in the frequency, symbol rate and polarity of the signal on your due south satellite your hunting on your meter. After you've set your declination leave that alone and ignore the elevation. Manually elevate the dish for maximum signal strength and then slowly move the dish left and right until your meter comes alive.

Once that happens you know your on the right satellite. Adjust both your elevation and azimuth for maximum signal strength and slowly lock the bolts down on azimuth and elevation. Once that is done go to your lnb and slowly adjust the skew and your focal length in/out for maximum signal and lock back down. That is all there is to it. At that point assuming your pole is plumb all the way around you should be on the arc and your receiver should be able to hit every satellite you can see. No real need to fiddle around with the charts and all the other various steps you have to do to get the dish in the neighborhood. With a decent meter you avoid all that.

Thank you, Arion. That is good practical advice.

I installed the dish on it's (plumb) mast today and I cannot get my Kii Pro DVB/S2 receiver to pulse the motor. The length of my cable is 100' to the motor. It is a quad-shielded RG6 with an 18 AWG (1.12mm) solid core line in it which, according to the Stab manual is acceptable at that distance. So I bought a Winegard signal strength meter which is powered by the receiver. I will try it tomorrow to see if it can find a satellite. So far, the signal strength meter on the receiver at due south reads 54%, which is no surprise, given I haven't manually aimed it yet. This receiver does not allow for manual movement of the dish. Your thoughts on amplification?

 

[Arion]

The receiver has to be able to move the motor or it's a moot point. Make sure in your satellite setup in the receiver that USALS is selected for each satellite and that the appropriate lnb setting is put in for each satellite. Make sure you put your lat/long into the receiver and then also make sure that at the motor that the cable from the receiver goes to the motor in and then from the motor out the short cable goes to the lnb. If your going to set up with the motor then the receiver has to move the motor to what your due south satellite is. Also check the connectors on both ends, ect. RG-6 probably isn't the best because of attenuation, RG-11 would be better.

That Winegard meter isn't very good. Better than nothing but not by a lot. You won't be able to discriminate what satellite you are on so there will be a lot more moving back and forth from the receiver to the dish. And the problem with that meter is that the DBS satellites [directv dish] will cause the meter to go nuts as they are very strong and if your aiming for a satellite right next to one of these in the arc you'll have a hard time picking it up. With a decent meter that I was referring to you can program the transponder into your meter and and that way when your meter gets a lock you know your on the right bird. The signal strength meter will work but it's just going to take you longer. Good luck!

 

[ScottOK]

The receiver has to be able to move the motor or it's a moot point. Make sure in your satellite setup in the receiver that USALS is selected for each satellite and that the appropriate lnb setting is put in for each satellite. Make sure you put your lat/long into the receiver and then also make sure that at the motor that the cable from the receiver goes to the motor in and then from the motor out the short cable goes to the lnb. If your going to set up with the motor then the receiver has to move the motor to what your due south satellite is. Also check the connectors on both ends, ect. RG-6 probably isn't the best because of attenuation, RG-11 would be better.

That Winegard meter isn't very good. Better than nothing but not by a lot. You won't be able to discriminate what satellite you are on so there will be a lot more moving back and forth from the receiver to the dish. And the problem with that meter is that the DBS satellites [directv dish] will cause the meter to go nuts as they are very strong and if your aiming for a satellite right next to one of these in the arc you'll have a hard time picking it up. With a decent meter that I was referring to you can program the transponder into your meter and and that way when your meter gets a lock you know your on the right bird. The signal strength meter will work but it's just going to take you longer. Good luck!

Thank you. I need to get to the bottom of this motor issue before I go any further. I have heard that the motor can be tested witha 12 volt battery, but I have no button on it to test movement. I'll stick an ohm meter on the RG6. It is rated for 75 ohms and the Stab manual recommends 18 ohms max. Wonder if that is the problem. I don't know where to buy RG11 coax. this is the first I've heard of it.

I could move the receiver very close to the dish with a short cord and test it, I suppose.

 

[Arion]

Difference Between RG6 and RG11


RG6 vs RG11

In choosing the correct coaxial cable to wire-up an AV system, we often encounter the RG6 and RG11 designations. These cables are not the same and there are differences that need to be considered before choosing one over the other. The biggest difference between these two cable types is attenuation, or the degree at which signal quality is lost. RG6 cables have greater attenuation compared to the RG11. Therefore, with a given length of cable, you would have a better signal at the end of the RG11 cable than at the end of the RG6. Conversely, you can use greater longer RG11 cables before experiencing any noticeable signal loss. Another upside to the RG11 cable is that it can transmit signals at a higher frequency range, which the RG6 cable could no longer carry.

Probably the biggest downside to the RG11 cable is its higher price per meter. The increase in price can add up pretty quickly as it is often used for long distances. The reason for the higher price is the thickness of the cable and the conductor itself within the cable. More materials directly translate to a higher cost to manufacture. Since the conductor inside the RG6 is smaller in diameter, the overall thickness of the RG6 cable is also thinner.

Another problem with the RG11 is the lack of flexibility, largely due to the thickness of the cable. This makes the use of RG11 cables in common home connections very difficult, if not impossible. The RG11 cable is not really designed to bend around corners or take sharp turns. The RG6 is much better for this and that is why it is often preferred in home installations. The RG11 cable is often used in backbone installations where you would usually need to connect two points that are separated by a somewhat great distance.

If you already have the RG11 cable but need the RG6, it is safe to use the RG11 cable in its place and expect no loss of signal quality. The opposite is not always true as, depending on the signal being carried, the RG6 may or may not suffice.

Summary:

1. RG11 is better at preserving signal quality than the RG6

2. RG11 is able to work at much higher frequencies than the RG6

3. RG11 costs more than RG6

4. RG11 is twice as thick as RG6

5. RG11 is not as flexible as RG6

6. You can use RG11 to replace RG6



Read more: Difference Between RG6 and RG11 | Difference Between http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-rg6-and-rg11/#ixzz4gKPWT45H

 

[Jim S.]

Thank you. I need to get to the bottom of this motor issue before I go any further. I have heard that the motor can be tested witha 12 volt battery, but I have no button on it to test movement. I'll stick an ohm meter on the RG6. It is rated for 75 ohms and the Stab manual recommends 18 ohms max. Wonder if that is the problem. I don't know where to buy RG11 coax. this is the first I've heard of it.

I could move the receiver very close to the dish with a short cord and test it, I suppose.

75 ohms is the impedance of the cable, not the resistance. I don't know what the resistance of RG6 is supposed to be, but you should be able to find it somewhere specified as ohms per foot.

Using a battery to test the motor isn't going to help if you can't move the motor -- you may be thinking of using a battery to test a C-band dish motor, which is a whole different animal that has no intelligence in it.

My first guess is a bad connector on the cable. My second guess is a bad receiver. You should definitely test it by taking the receiver out to the dish, or taking everything apart and taking the motor indoors. Another, easier, thing to try would be disconnecting the LNBF. If it's really a line loss issue (or, an insufficient power supply in the receiver issue), the lesser current consumption of just the motor might tell you.

 

[KE4EST]

Unless you have something installed wrong, I doubt it is the 100 feet of coax, I have moved motors on longer with non-quad RG-6.
I think you need to go over things again and do a little more reading. The max on the motor is 18V or Volts, not ohms.
The coax is supposed to be 75 Ohms. Like Jim said, moving a dish with a car battery is for an actuator on a C-Band dish, not a STAB USALS motor.
Some of these receivers are not good at motor commands. Try setting the motor to DiSEqC 1.2 in the menu and then hit the East and West buttons from inside the receiver menu, and see if the motor moves then.
Make sure the LNBF is disconnected on the other port, just for the movement test.

 

[ScottOK]

Alright, I double-checked the connections and solved the motor issue - it is working fine, I think. I also took Arion's advice about setting it up. I did not purchase a better meter, just using the Winegard signal finder meter I already purchased.

After fiddling with it for some time, I think I finally located Echostar 6, which I want to use for my south-facing default satellite. When the Winegard signal pinged I verified it with the receiver and the signal strength was bounching around on the Echostar, so I assumed i found it anf fine-tuned the dish position using the Winegard). However, no matter how much I play with the dish positioning I cannot get any greater signal strength than 69% (hovers around 55%) and the receiver does not find any programs on any satellites I point the dish to. Can anyone tell me what I must do to increase signal strength and get some programming? My universal LNB is set at zero and focal-length adjusted for best tone on the Winegard. All satellites in my receiver are set to the LNB. So far as I can tell, the dish is properly set up on the arc (mounting is plumb and I have used the Winegard meter to adjust elevation on Echostar 6).

I am at a loss. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

 

[Titanium]

A few observations:

You are likely aimed at a satellite, but what satellite?

Exhostar 6 should not be used to set-up a FTA system as it is a circular polarity satellite with no FTA channels. Instead activate USALS motor control with your longitude/latitude entered in and use the adjacent satellite, Galaxy 19 @ 97w.

Place the receiver and a small tv next to the dish. Set the LNB type to Universal with LO set to 9750/10600 (to match your universal LNBF) with the LNB power (polarity) set to auto 13/18V. Set the transponder to 12152 / H / 20000 and only use the receiver SIGNAL QUALITY meter to aim the dish. The Winegard meter does not have the ability to confirm what satellite the dish is aimed at and I would not use it. The receiver SIGNAL QUALITY meter will indicate when the correct transponder is located and the aiming can be optimized using this Peak reading.

What is the motor elevation set to? What is the dish elevation set to? What is your city in Oklahoma?

 

[ScottOK]

Thanks, Titanium. Actually, there is no way I could have properly aimed the satellite without the Winegard or some other meter at the dish. The signal strength meter on the receiver moves so little and registers so little strength that there is no way I could have determined whether I was locked on the satellite using it alone. Per Arion's suggestion above, I set my initial south orientation and elevation and used the Winegard to physically aim the satellite, making the the declination and elevation tweaks using the meter.

I did finally figure things out. I ran a scan on the receiver and picked up programming from 14 satellites. Echostar 6 may not have any channels, but at least it was a unit I could locate and lock onto. I tried looking for Galaxy 19 for HOURS and could not lock onto it. There must be a dozen satellites right around it. Looks like only about 20 or 30 of the 311 Ku band stations I picked up are anything I can enjoy. I should have gone C Band. But this has been a good learning experience for me.

Looks like my average signal strength for any satellite is about 55% with quality around 50%. I guess that's good? The pictures come in looking pretty good on most programs.

It would be nice to pick up some more stuff toward the west, but trees are in the way. I am picking up satellites from 89W to 99W.

 

[kittyhas1000legs]

Thanks, Titanium. Actually, there is no way I could have properly aimed the satellite without the Winegard or some other meter at the dish. The signal strength meter on the receiver moves so little and registers so little strength that there is no way I could have determined whether I was locked on the satellite using it alone. Per Arion's suggestion above, I set my initial south orientation and elevation and used the Winegard to physically aim the satellite, making the the declination and elevation tweaks using the meter.

I did finally figure things out. I ran a scan on the receiver and picked up programming from 14 satellites. Echostar 6 may not have any channels, but at least it was a unit I could locate and lock onto. I tried looking for Galaxy 19 for HOURS and could not lock onto it. There must be a dozen satellites right around it. Looks like only about 20 or 30 of the 311 Ku band stations I picked up are anything I can enjoy. I should have gone C Band. But this has been a good learning experience for me.

Looks like my average signal strength for any satellite is about 55% with quality around 50%. I guess that's good? The pictures come in looking pretty good on most programs.

It would be nice to pick up some more stuff toward the west, but trees are in the way. I am picking up satellites from 89W to 99W.

The strength and quality meters all vary wildly from receiver to receiver. My Linkbox show every signal as having 83-98% quality, while my X2 would show anywhere from 24-60% quality (and rarely above that). Having a proper standalone satellite meter is probably best.

As for your range, I'd recommend a chainsaw for those trees. I'm a big fan of 103w (NBC, NHK). At least you still get CGTN (95w) and ABC News One (91w).

 

[ScottOK]

Thank you all so much for the valuable input! This project has been to see if I could set up my own satellite system in anticipation of a future off-grid, solar powered application. Also on my list is attempting long distance WIFI throughput using directional antennas and capturing OTA signals (all solar powered). It is good to know that it can be done without breaking the bank!

 

[. Raine]

If you are picking up 311 channels between 89 and 99 W Ku, you must have locked onto 97 W (G19) in there somewhere and not realized it.

 

[Brct203]

Raine is right, between 89W and 99W, most satellites have only about a dozen channels (more or less), but 97W alone has around 200. If you get lots and lots of religious channels (in various languages, mostly English, Arabic and Farsi), and some African channels in French, that's 97W...