Took my patio outlet!

[Uncle Flappy]

Satellite Geniuses,

I just had a new installation yesterday and am somewhat suspicious of the competency of the installer. All of the coaxial lines were less than hand-taught, placement of the receivers were questionable. Here is my configuration, feeding four rooms:

Dish Pro 500
DVR 522
Dish 322
DPP34 switch

I had one free cable feed but the technician insisted it would take two feeds for my setup. So for the 2nd line, he used the walljack I had on my back patio. I was hoping to keep it since my wife will not let me smoke my cigars inside while watching football.

I read in this forum that a DPP44 would allow a single feed but before I call Dish Network to complain, I thought I should get my facts straight.

Is there a way for a single feed in to the house with a four-room setup? Please use small syllable words as most of this is Greek to me.

Thanks for your help!

- Uncle Flappy

 

[K R Kimmel]

First off let me tell you this.

Welcome to SatelliteGuys!

I am going to assume that the DPP34 switch in your equipment list is a typo. There is a DP34 switch, there is a DPP44 switch but no DPP34 switch. Since you mention it later I'm guessing you have the DPP44 switch.

You installer is correct. With a DPP44 switch you need a minimum of two feeds from the switch to your receivers.

Your confusion lies in the statement that a DPP44 switch allows you to use a single feed. This is true. What you missed is that this was said regarding one dual-tuner receiver. You have two dual-tuner receivers. The DPP44 allows you to have a single feed to each dual-tuner receiver, total of two.

Before the introduction (fairly recently I might add) of the DPP44 each tuner required a separate feed. Each of your dual-tuner receivers would require two feeds, for a total of four.

As a side not I will add that the DPP44 ability to support two tuners on one feed cable only applies when both tuners are in the same receiver. It will not support two tuners in separate receivers on one feed. Each receiver needs it's own feed.

So in response to your question "Is there a way for a single feed in to the house with a four-room setup?" The answer is "no".

Nothing said on this site is Greek. Geek, perhaps, but not Greek.

 

[Uncle Flappy]

...So in response to your question "Is there a way for a single feed in to the house with a four-room setup?" The answer is "no".

Thanks for your fast reply!

You are correct, it is a DP34 switch, not a DPP44. In reading through the forums here, it looks like I have a lot to learn. The technician was able to bring only two feeds in the house for the 4 tuners with the DP34 so I guess he did an OK job after all.

Thanks again for your help!

- Flappy

 

[K R Kimmel]

It has to be a DPP44 switch to use only two lines. If it were a DP34 you would need four (4) lines.

 

[gpflepsen]

A question; Could a diplexor be used for sending out a ch 3 or 4 RF back to the patio on the sat in line?

 

[Barry Erick]

No,
The sat line uses 950 mhz for each polarity from 0 and ch 3 and 4, along with the entire TV band and more is utilized.Now they aren't supposed to but birdies (out of band stuff can get in) With excellent components, it is possible. But it is not the best signals.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Barry, yet again you are WRONG. VHF/UHF is 40-850MHz. DBS feeds are 950-2150MHz (depending on D* or E* and type of gear used).

A diplexer CAN be used to send RF output (I suggest TV2) of the receiver back towards the switch.

There are limitations on where and how it can be installed. The details have been posted here many times before. Find one of my posts in a diplexing thread.

Sorry, I'm just tired of typing the diagram over and over again. Hopefully, we'll have our FAQ site up and running within a few weeks - then we can start just posting links to the appropriate install diagrams. Ah, my fingers thank us.

 

[Barry Erick]

Barry, yet again you are WRONG. VHF/UHF is 40-850MHz. DBS feeds are 950-2150MHz (depending on D* or E* and type of gear used).

A diplexer CAN be used to send RF output (I suggest TV2) of the receiver back towards the switch.

There are limitations on where and how it can be installed. The details have been posted here many times before. Find one of my posts in a diplexing thread.

Sorry, I'm just tired of typing the diagram over and over again. Hopefully, we'll have our FAQ site up and running within a few weeks - then we can start just posting links to the appropriate install diagrams. Ah, my fingers thank us.

I have seen birdies on the entire spectum on a spectrum analizer MANY times to know it is not the best way. Many LNB's are not clean and will wipe no mater what a diplexer sayts.


AND WHERE THE HECK IS THE WORD AGAIN I have been in RF for over 50 years and in Satellite since 1979. I also know it can work.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Well, Barry, saying "ch 3 and 4, along with the entire TV band and more is utilized" is wrong. Diplexers do not "say" anything. And birdies do not necessarily mean trouble.

I think the problem might be that you're still thinking in terms of 50-year old technology.

As for "again":
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=241561&postcount=5
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=241916&postcount=19
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=239929&postcount=7

 

[Uncle Flappy]

It has to be a DPP44 switch to use only two lines. If it were a DP34 you would need four (4) lines.

It is a DP34. I attached a photo for clarification.

- Flappy

 

[ShadowEKU]

And I see 2 diplexors... ide be interested to see this setup personally. However someone pointed out that the DPP44 had to be used to bring 2 lines in the hosue is incorrect... the 2 lines from the LNB could be brought in to the house and then to the switch. Its a matter of thinking inside the box .

I wouldnt call dish to complain honestly. 99% of the DPP44s are retail only and cost 200 dollars by themselves.

 

[Uncle Flappy]

@ShadowEKU

I won't complain - I am just a bit disappointed to lose my patio connection.

I figure I can try and run another line from the DMARC or drill a hole in the exterior of my 11-month-old house. The former is not very feasible, the latter not very appealing.

... the 2 lines from the LNB could be brought in to the house and then to the switch..

You are absolutely correct. The two lines are brought into the house and connected to the switch. From the DP34, there are 4 outs, two of which go directly to the receivers and then return to the diplexers to meet the other 2 lines, which then attach to the TVs w/out receivers. The latter receivers use UHF remotes.

When I had my home built, I upgraded the wiring package for a central wiring panel and doubled coaxial wall-jacks in a couple of rooms. It is in those rooms that the tuners reside, taking up both connections for in and out.

I also have 2 coaxial cable runs from the DMARC to the wiring panel but retained one for Internet access with my local cable company. That is why I am stuck without my ever precious patio TV wall-jack.

 

[James Long]

No,
The sat line uses 950 mhz for each polarity from 0 and ch 3 and 4, along with the entire TV band and more is utilized.Now they aren't supposed to but birdies (out of band stuff can get in) With excellent components, it is possible. But it is not the best signals.

Each polarity uses 500MHz, not 950MHz. On legacy equipment they use 950-1450MHz and the LNB or switch sends one polarity of one satellite to one receiver. On DishPro equipment the second ploarity is "stacked" using 1550-2050MHz. Total range used 950-2050MHz sending both polarities of the same satellite to one receiver. (A DP splitter can be used for specific situations.) 0-950MHz is not used for satellite feeds but with a diplexer can be used for broadcast TV or cable signals.

The new DishPro Plus technology is similar to DishPro except the stacked satellite polarites do not have to be from the same satellite. A DPP LNB or the DPP44 switch outputs one polarity from one satellite on the regular band (950-1450MHz) and one polarity from any satellite on the switch/LNB on the other band (1550-2050MHz). The satellite use of the cable is still kept within the 950-2050MHz limits.

You are absolutely correct. The two lines are brought into the house and connected to the switch. From the DP34, there are 4 outs, two of which go directly to the receivers and then return to the diplexers to meet the other 2 lines, which then attach to the TVs w/out receivers. The latter receivers use UHF remotes.

That seems odd.

More likely you have two feeds going to each receiver (required for x22's) with one of the send feeds being used for the diplexed return feed. (Satellite signals going one way on the cable and UHF TV going the other way.)

At the box you photographed the outputs from one of the diplexers is sent to "room 3" and the output of the other diplexer is sent to "room 4". If this is true, I may have a solution for you.

Split the TV signal coming out of one of the diplexers and send one of the outputs to where it currently goes and the other to your patio. Then connect any TV to that output and use it as if it were the "second TV" that feed would normally go to.

You can also combine the signals coming OUT of the diplexers, and then split them (putting both TV3 and TV4 on every room connected). The UHF channels chosen during installation would need to be changed to be at least few channels apart to lower interference. DO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE ONLY COMBINING UHF TV AND NOT TWO OUTPUTS OF THE DP34!!!! The nice part is all of the TVs connected to the splitter after that combiner could pick up either "TV2" feed from either receiver. Not a bad thing.

I also have 2 coaxial cable runs from the DMARC to the wiring panel but retained one for Internet access with my local cable company. That is why I am stuck without my ever precious patio TV wall-jack.

I'm not sure where those fit in. Perhaps a diagram can be produced?

JL

 

[Uncle Flappy]

Perhaps a diagram can be produced?

Per your request...
I am anxious to see your suggestions.

- Flappy

 

[SimpleSimon]

... On DishPro equipment the second ploarity is "stacked" using 1550-2050MHz. ...

Close - on E* DP it's 1650-2150MHz. For some un known reason they decided the 'standard' bandstacking range you mentioned is not suitable for them. Probably just to make life difficult for us.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Per your request...
I am anxious to see your suggestions.

- Flappy

Here's mine. A mix of most of the above.

Diplex the two TV2 outputs back to the Laundry Room. Combine them, amplify them, send them all over the house. Maybe even send the TV1 outputs back there, too. Call all this your 'headend' feed.

The one remaining problem is now easily solved with just one more pair of diplexers. Grab a line from your new 'headend' amplifier, diplex it into the patio satellite feed, and "un"diplex it near the patio TV. That'll git-r-done.

P.S. the amplifier mentioned can be any decent video amp. Radio Shack probably still carries the nice 4-output model I have that should also be perfect for you.

 

[bcshields]

..Or you can just split your closest TV 2 line from one of your rcvrs back to the cigar smoking room. The remote's UHF, so bring it with you. If it's the 522 you can use your DVR functions on the game.

 

[gpflepsen]

With Simon's solution, combining both TV outputs enables any TV in the house to see either receiver. Just choose Ch 3 or 4 when you're in the non-receiver rooms.

 

[Uncle Flappy]

I am still a little confused, however. I only have one feed from the network closet to the patio. Are you saying it is OK for the LNB feed AND the UHF signal (TV2's are channel 60) to share the same physical cable?

I'm drooling! :lick

Thanks again for all your help!

- Flappy

 

[gpflepsen]

I am still a little confused, however. I only have one feed from the network closet to the patio. Are you saying it is OK for the LNB feed AND the UHF signal (TV2's are channel 60) to share the same physical cable?

I'm drooling! :lick

Thanks again for all your help!

- Flappy

OK, I got bored

Not everything is labeled, but the diplexors are the plain boxes on the 522 and 322 TV2 outs. Also the diplexor on the patio line is a... diplexor.

What'cha think Simon?