TIVO vs E*

[jacmyoung]

For the record, this is what Mainer's website says on the homepage:



Now, did the OP post a LINK to his site? No, but the link included the URL. And we didn't make the document available on our site, it was a LINK to the source.

I had no idea I was a "webmaster."

In the past I had not only posted his website but also promoted his site as having the most comprehensive files on this case, asked people to visit that site for additional reading if they like.

Don't underestimate the purchasing power of the E* subs, if they have no problem getting"nickel and dimed to death" by Charlie, you never know they might be more than willing to buy a lot of buttons too.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I had no idea I was a "webmaster."

In the past I had not only posted his website but also promoted his site as having the most comprehensive files on this case, asked people to visit that site for additional reading if they like.

Don't underestimate the purchasing power of the E* subs, if they have no problem getting"nickel and dimed to death" by Charlie, you never know they might be more than willing to buy a lot of buttons too.

Yeah, I know. Its crazy.

Here is the official link. IF YOU want to have access to copies of the motions and orders and decisions in the never-ending Tivo vs. Echostar lawsuit, feel free to visit Mainers Law Library.

Ok, now we have satisfied his website's request, and we can go on our merry way. As I have said before, nothing to see here, on your way, back to arguing about parsing and coloring and the such.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

This does not look good...

The satellite provider said in a one-sentence court filing Monday that it's "investigating other potential design-around options, but at this stage, does not know whether a future design-around is even possible."

This is from EchoStar stumped in Tivo patent prosecution ? The Register

I dont have a problem with Tivo, but honestly I have never had one. Those folks who have / had Tivo's tell me they are quite good. I have no reason to doubt that.

As I said before Dish should have settled on this one a long time ago.

 

[tivonomo]

This does not look good...

I dont have a problem with Tivo, but honestly I have never had one. Those folks who have / had Tivo's tell me they are quite good. I have no reason to doubt that.

As I said before Dish should have settled on this one a long time ago.

This is just a quote from the filing the other day by Echostar telling Folsom exactly that. It is only to comply with Folsom's modified injunction and I don't believe it means conclusively that Echostar believes that it can't workaround the injunction.

 

[Smith P.]

Scott,

I can send one as a gift to you.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

This does not look good...



This is from EchoStar stumped in Tivo patent prosecution ? The Register

I dont have a problem with Tivo, but honestly I have never had one. Those folks who have / had Tivo's tell me they are quite good. I have no reason to doubt that.

As I said before Dish should have settled on this one a long time ago.

I also don't think that news story is really the harbinger of doom; if anything the motion for the permanent stay to the injunction seemed pretty strong.

 

[TheKrell]

This does not look good...

I'm with Tivonomo and rocky on this one. I don't think this is as dire as it appears, because Dish may well have little or no wiggle room to do another design around, when they already spent so many resources, and changed so many things, doing it the first time. I for one believe that they were successful, because the heart of the Tivo Time Warp, the part that made for smooth and accurate trick play, is gone from my 501.

I believe in the end Dish will get their appeal, and Folsom will be reversed on virtually all of his lopsided Dish-destroying hot-headed and ill-considered decisions. (Note to Tivonomo: Folsom is not on this board, so I can flame him all I want and he will never know or care about it. And even if he did know about it, he still wouldn't care because he knows my opinion isn't worth squat, and only his really counts. Plus he's already engineered a stunning transfer of wealth in the form of $105M from Dish to Tivo, and supposedly that can never go back to Dish even if Tivo's patent is ultimately ruled invalid.)

If Dish's appeal is denied and the stay lifted, there is not much else Dish can do other than pay up or buy out. Start another design-around? Seems rather unlikely.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I'm with Tivonomo on this one. I don't think this is as dire as it appears, because Dish may well have little or no wiggle room to do another design around, when they already spent so many resources, and changed so many things, doing it the first time. I for one believe that they were successful, because the heart of the Tivo Time Warp, the part that made for smooth and accurate trick play, is gone from my 501.

I believe in the end Dish will get their appeal, and Folsom will be reversed on virtually all of his lopsided Dish-destroying hot-headed and ill-considered decisions. (Note to Tivonomo: Folsom is not on this board, so I can flame him all I want and he will never know or care about it. And even if he did know about it, he still wouldn't care because he knows my opinion isn't worth squat, and only his really counts. Plus he's already engineered a stunning transfer of wealth in the form of $105M from Dish to Tivo, and supposedly that can never go back to Dish even if Tivo's patent is ultimately ruled invalid.)

If Dish's appeal is denied and the stay lifted, there is not much else Dish can do other than pay up or buy out. Start another design-around? Seems rather unlikely.

I agree.

 

[jacmyoung]

I commented about that particular E* filing earlier, it was more a message to Judge Folsom E* has no intention to settle, rather continue to design around if they have to. But they needed to say they did not know if it would be possible for their own protection.

If one reads the history, TiVo and the judge made a big deal of E* not informing the court last time, and E*'s reasoning was at the time of the last appeal, E* did not know if the design around would work until 4/07, at which time the appeal was well under way and both parties had completed their filings just waiting for the appeals court's decision, informing the courts of that design around at that point had no practical purpose.

To me it is a show of disagreement with the court's order to inform, more so than anything else: So judge you told us our last design around could not work regardless, now we are telling you we are planning for another design around and we don't know if it will be possible, it will probably never work in your eyes, but we are planning for it anyway

 

[Smith P.]

"E*'s reasoning was at the time of the last appeal, E* did not know if the design around would work until 4/07" doesn't look right, as I recall in that letter to retailers Dish says about the job been done.

 

[jacmyoung]

"E*'s reasoning was at the time of the last appeal, E* did not know if the design around would work until 4/07" doesn't look right, as I recall in that letter to retailers Dish says about the job been done.

You have a point, but that does not change my above speculation that E* was only showing its defiance to the judge's ruling and order.

Judge Folsom said even if the design around was non-infringing, E* would still be in contempt, meaning as long as E* did not disable those DVRs, E*'s design around effort would be an impossible effort anyway.

But the judge ordered E* to inform him if E* wanted to continue to design around. What was the point? Informing him would not make any difference as long as E* did not disable, would it?

So E* now tells the judge, well let us inform you we are planning on continued design around, of course we don't know if it will ever be possible because you said it wouldn't work one way or the other, but we are planning on it anyway.

The truth is, E* does not even have to inform him anything right now, the order is currently stayed, but E* informed him anyway, if TheKrell is reading this, you were right, E* was flaming the judge, and according to the rule of this thread, it was ok

 

[Smith P.]

How it happened when Dish informed everyone - they did modifications in FW and now ( before 4/07) its not infringing the TiVo patent. Including ViP. But later one it was discovered opposite.

 

[TheKrell]

The truth is, E* does not even have to inform him anything right now, the order is currently stayed, but E* informed him anyway, if TheKrell is reading this, you were right, E* was flaming the judge, and according to the rule of this thread, it was ok

I was saying that I can flame the judge and get away with it. But if I were E*, I sure as hell wouldn't say "In your FACE Folsom!" Maybe they think they have nothing more to lose from this judge.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

I was saying that I can flame the judge and get away with it. But if I were E*, I sure as hell wouldn't say "In your FACE Folsom!" Maybe they think they have nothing more to lose from this judge.

You wouldn't unless you wanted to have an uncomfortable encounter with a US Marshall, followed by a trip to a federal prison camp.


Yet, I don't think the contempt-claim was based on such a stereotypical instance; of course, I also think there was little ground for the contempt ruling either. As was stated well by jacmyoung earlier.

 

[TheKrell]

You wouldn't unless you wanted to have an uncomfortable encounter with a US Marshall, followed by a trip to a federal prison camp.

Well, I meant here, not in Folsom's court when he's sitting. Are you telling me I can't flame Folsom, e.g. right outside his courtroom, without getting arrested for contempt?

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Well, I meant here, not in Folsom's court when he's sitting. Are you telling me I can't flame Folsom, e.g. right outside his courtroom, without getting arrested for contempt?

I was joking. But would not recommend that. And in general while I think its ok to say you think the judge is crazy, you've already made that point, and can move on.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Okay fellows, I read in the skyreport that time is running out for DISH on either a work around or settling with TIVO. So how much time is left for the stay DISH just got? When can we expect some kind of END to this saga?

 

[Curtis0620]

Okay fellows, I read in the skyreport that time is running out for DISH on either a work around or settling with TIVO. So how much time is left for the stay DISH just got? When can we expect some kind of END to this saga?

Today, if Charlie signs a licensing deal.

 

[tnsprin]

Today, if Charlie signs a licensing deal.

If the appeal court were to accept the case, he probably gets a stay for the length of the appeal. Of course he may have his appeal rejected and the clock would start ticking again and I believe he then has 29 days.

 

[jacmyoung]

I was saying that I can flame the judge and get away with it. But if I were E*, I sure as hell wouldn't say "In your FACE Folsom!" Maybe they think they have nothing more to lose from this judge.

Of course it was tongue in cheek. But by "informing" the judge of a planned new design around effort (which E* has no obligation to do so at this time), and at the same time admitting another one of these likely will not be possible because the judge told them it wasn't possible anyway. It only serves to send out a message, we do not agree with the judge's ruling and the order, we do not intend to settle, we want to make sure the appeals court understand our positions.

Do the appeals court want to see "12 million people" suddenly losing their DVRs if it is quite clear to them the judge's ruling and order are on a shaky ground? If not, then stay the order.