TIVO vs E*

[vampz26]

As I have explained, audio and video sync is important for TV viewing, but this invention is not about audio and video sync. This invention does take the advantage of the time stamps in the MPEG streams, but not for the purpose of audio and video sync, rather for DVR trickplays. So much so that the claims only talked about converting only the video time stamps, not audio time stamps.

How the MPEG decoders sync the audio and video is a prior art, an invention predated this TiVo's DVR invention. TiVo could not have had a patent on the audio/video sync technology even if they had tried.

Actually, how mpeg4 decoders work, is not a prior art, it came after the Tivo "invention"...

 

[jacmyoung]

...You may have within the scope of your post, exposed Tivo's patent as illegitimate exactly as Klegg and myself said it was...

Not so. TiVo's invention is about taking the advantage of the time stamps carried by an MPEG stream, and use only the video time stamps to make an index out of it, and use that video time stamp index to help perform trickplays so the CPU power can be used for other purpose. It is as narrow as it is, nothing to do with any technology related to how to sync audio and video using the time stamps in the MPEG streams.

 

[vampz26]

Just came from independent time generator and converted to specific format (Line22 for VCR, or PTS for digital source) and inserted during recording; all transforms/compression must preserve the time stamps - VCR or DVD or DVR will sync by those signals/stamps in case of dropping any part of the stream or during trick play.

Do tell...

Considering that mpeg2 and mpeg4 are compressed and transformed differently...where do those differences fit into this rather 'primitive' equatiom when calculating the timestamps?

 

[jacmyoung]

Actually, how mpeg4 decoders work, is not a prior art, it came after the Tivo "invention"...

If so, then how the MPEG4 thing work has nothing to do with this TiVo's invention. A later art can not defeat a prior art. But if TiVo's art is a prior art to the MPEG4 art, then TiVo's art should have invalidated the later MPEG4 art, that is if they were the same art.

The fact both TiVo's art and the later MPEG4 art stand on their own is another sign that the TiVo's art has nothing to do with the art of MPEG4 sync tehchnology. Two inventions that are not related. True they must both exist in an MPEG4 DVR for the DVR to work, there are many other inventions must be used in that MPEG4 DVR for it to work, for example the invention about plastics is needed to make the box to house all the components in it. The invention about how the IR wave can be used for the remote to talk to the DVR...

 

[Smith P.]

You can't make trick play functions without syncing video and audio parts.

 

[vampz26]

Not so. TiVo's invention is about taking the advantage of the time stamps carried by an MPEG stream, and use only the video time stamps to make an index out of it, and use that video time stamp index to help perform trickplays so the CPU power can be used for other purpose. It is as narrow as it is, nothing to do with any technology related to how to sync audio and video using the time stamps in the MPEG streams.

Brilliant...

You and smith.P just completely contradicted each other on where the timestamps come from.

This gets better and better...

 

[vampz26]

If so, then how the MPEG4 thing work has nothing to do with this TiVo's invention. A later art can not defeat a prior art. But if TiVo's art is a prior art to the MPEG4 art, then TiVo's art should have invalidated the later MPEG4 art, that is if they were the same art.

The fact both TiVo's art and the later MPEG4 art stand on their own is another sign that the TiVo's art has nothing to do with the art of MPEG4 sync tehchnology.

Exactly!

Which is exactly why I say that ViP DVRs have a very strong chance of not infringing and being a unique art. They are build upon "MPEG4 art" that as you said, stands alone...

 

[Smith P.]

Do tell...

Considering that mpeg2 and mpeg4 are compressed and transformed differently...where do those differences fit into this rather 'primitive' equatiom when calculating the timestamps?

It's just time markers residing outside of compressed payload. They are injected during creating say I-frames and taken from outside the compression process.

 

[vampz26]

You can't make trick play functions without syncing video and audio parts.

Agreed...

and if the audio and video parts colorably different in their own right...being of a different compression algorithm and model all together

you may have a colorably different invention when trying too sync them using some kind of trickplay.

 

[vampz26]

It's just time markers residing outside of compressed payload. They are injected during creating say I-frames and taken from outside the compression process.

Sigh...

and how are these calculated? You are basically repeating yourself using different variations of the same jargon.

Please give a technical answer to a technical question or just admit you don't know.

 

[Smith P.]

Told yeah - time generator; have you seen preproduction clips/scenes ? With BIG TIME COUNTER? That's exactly what I'm try repeating to you.
That counter is not part of picture, but the timestamps what hidden from end user, but easily picked by professional equipment and added to main picture during editing, etc.

 

[vampz26]

Told yeah - time generator; have you seen preproduction clips/scenes ? With BIG TIME COUNTER? That's exactly what I'm try repeating to you.

ok...your failure to answer question is noted.

just let the rest of us go to bed now, ok?

 

[vampz26]

Told yeah - time generator; have you seen preproduction clips/scenes ? With BIG TIME COUNTER? That's exactly what I'm try repeating to you.
That counter is not part of picture, but the timestamps what hidden from end user, but easily picked by professional equipment and added to main picture during editing, etc.

Ok...than how does that differ between mpeg2 and mpeg4 given the difference compression ratios, compression algorithms, and....

never mind...

Good night, smith p....you have much to learn....

 

[Smith P.]

I'm try to teach you how the process works, but you don't get simple things like time generator/timestamps, that's sad evening for me - I thought it's obvious things for any man.

 

[vampz26]

I'm try to teach you how the process works, but you don't get simple things like time generator/timestamps, that's sad evening for me - I thought it's obvious things for any man.

Oh I get the concepts, all right...much better than you do, I'm afraid...I'm trying to work with you here...

lol...I'm sure it is a very sad evening for you.

good night, my friend.

 

[Smith P.]

Ok...than how does that differ between mpeg2 and mpeg4 given the difference compression ratios, compression algorithms, and....

never mind...

Good night, smith p....you have much to learn....

NO DIFFERENCE !

Start learning yourself, instead of putting labels onto other ppl.

 

[vampz26]

NO DIFFERENCE !

Start learning yourself, instead of putting labels onto other ppl.

But I already KNOW! There is a big difference...the object models speak for themselves...

Are you trying to get us BOTH banned? Its happened once already...I don't want it to happen again...

 

[Smith P.]

Zzzz....

 

[vampz26]

MPEG-2 is widely used as the format of digital television signals that are broadcast by terrestrial (over-the-air), cable, and direct broadcast satellite TV systems. It also specifies the format of movies and other programs that are distributed on DVD and similar disks. As such, TV stations, TV receivers, DVD players, and other equipment are often designed to this standard. MPEG-2 was the second of several standards developed by the Moving Pictures Expert Group (MPEG) and is an international standard (ISO/IEC 13818). Parts 1 and 2 of MPEG-2 were developed in a joint collaborative team with ITU-T, and they have a respective catalog number in the ITU-T Recommendation Series.

MPEG-4 provides a series of technologies for developers, for various service-providers and for end users.
MPEG-4 enables different developers to create objects possessing better abilities of adaptability and flexibility to improve the quality of such services and technologies as digital television, animation graphics, World Wide Web and their extensions. This standard enables developers to control their content better and to fight more effectively against copyright violations.
Various network providers can use MPEG-4 for data transparency. With the help of standard procedures such data can be interpreted and transformed into various signals compatible with any available network.
The MPEG-4 format provides the end users with a wide range of interaction with various animated objects.
Standardized Digital Rights Management signaling, otherwise known in the MPEG community as Intellectual Property Management and Protection (IPMP).

The MPEG-4 format can perform various functions, among which might be the following:
Multiplexes and synchronizes data, associated with media objects, in such a way that they could be transported further via network channels.
Interaction with the audio-visual scene, which is formed on the side of the receiver.

DivX is a brand name of products created by DivX, Inc. (formerly DivXNetworks, Inc.), including the DivX Codec which has become popular due to its ability to compress lengthy video segments into small sizes while maintaining relatively high visual quality. The DivX codec uses lossy MPEG-4 Part 2 compression, also known as MPEG-4 ASP, where quality is balanced against file size for utility. It is one of several codecs commonly associated with "ripping", where audio and video multimedia are transferred to a hard disk and transcoded. Many newer "DivX Certified" DVD players are able to play DivX encoded movies, although the Qpel and global motion compensation features are often omitted to reduce processing requirements. They are also excluded from the base DivX encoding profiles for compatibility reasons.

Wow...this is interesting. mpeg4 alone may do what tivo claims...and it wasn't even around at the time...

 

[Greg Bimson]

The part that cannot be defeated:

Which is exactly why I say that ViP DVRs have a very strong chance of not infringing and being a unique art. They are build upon "MPEG4 art" that as you said, stands alone...

The ViP DVR's also do MPEG2, and all eight models of DVR found infringing do MPEG2.