Tivo hearing today?

[harshness]

Stop lying. Comcast and Australia were discussed long before Dish.

Why do you guys even bother lying about stuff so easy to disprove?

No really, Id like to know, What is the motivation?

Do you have a copy of the transcript handy? The TiVo Q2 2008 transcript I read featured the Echostar comment at the end of the first paragraph from Tom Rogers.

Here's the first couple paragraphs for your edification:

Thomas S. Rogers

Thanks, Derrick. Good afternoon, everyone. Let me give you an overview of our second quarter. This was yet another solid quarter for TiVo. We beat our guidance on adjusted EBITDA very significantly, coming in at $10.6 million and posted net income results that were approximately $20 million above the same period last year. We were net income positive for the second straight quarter. Our balance sheet is very strong, with over $100 million in cash and cash equivalents. We generated $10 million in cash from operating activities in the quarter and we only expect our financial profile to improve once we receive our substantial award in the EchoStar case.

These results underscore TiVo's improved financial strength. When you add it to the growing traction with customers of our advertising, audience research, and international distribution businesses, combined with our MSO relationships, we believe we have the key growth drivers in place to build on our improved financial footing.

When the mention of the "EchoStar case" preceeds mention of "international distribution businesses, combined with our MSO relationships", I'd have to call baloney on your rebuke.

 

[harshness]

HUH? Tivo was incorporated in August 1997 in Delaware

I meant to type four or five as opposed to four of five. I've since changed that to reflect the actual three quarters count.

 

[Thomas22]

Here's the first couple paragraphs for your edification:When the mention of the "EchoStar case" preceeds mention of "international distribution businesses, combined with our MSO relationships", I'd have to call baloney on your rebuke.

Yep. You've got me there. What was your overall point? That TiVo is dying? I don't think so.

 

[harshness]

Yep. You've got me there. What was your overall point? That TiVo is dying? I don't think so.

Two points:

1. You better be awfully sure that you're not completely wrong when you call "you guys" liars.

2. Not everything is rosy at TiVo.

Even NeXT eventually succumbed.

 

[DishSatUser]

Yep. You've got me there. What was your overall point? That TiVo is dying? I don't think so.

No, But their Shareholders may be ripe for a purchase offer.

 

[navychop]

Over ripe!

More and more, I think this will happen. The court case is just to determine a selling price. To Echostar/Dish, most likely.


NeXT, Apple III, Lisa, various other products basically abandoned in place by their manufacturers. AT&T, when it was Cingular, abandoned it's TDMA cell users, but offered them "reasonable" conversion options to GSM. And all the cell companies did it to their analog (AMPS) cell customers- sometimes without even offering a deal. There was an entire TV scheme in the UK, IIRC, that was abandoned. I wonder what kind of deal they were offered? Raw?

 

[jacmyoung]

Yep. You've got me there. What was your overall point? That TiVo is dying? I don't think so.

The major reason TiVo has turned a profit, even as TiVo admitted, was their "new sub acquisition cost" was way down, as TiVo no longer added any new net subs but lost a lot in over all sub count.

TiVo had 4.4 million accounts at the beginning of 2007, only 3.6 million left at the end of last quarter. The way TiVo is losing subs made DISH's 25k net loss looked like a hugh winner.

I have used this analogy, if DISH today is doing the same as TiVo, with a net loss of 800k subs last quarter (proportionally compared to TiVo), DISH would have made $540 million more profit because each new sub means almost $700 new sub acquisition cost loss.

You would be the first have said DISH would be dying because they lost 800k subs, despite the fact they would have also made $540 million additional profit.

Hiding the truth is not too different than lying.

 

[navychop]

From the Navychop dictionary:

Lawyering: Using the truth to deceive.

 

[kstuart]

No, But their Shareholders may be ripe for a purchase offer.

Since EchoStar already has the top rated DVR, they gain nothing from buying TiVo except for the following entirely abstract benefits:

- End to the lawsuit (of course)

- TiVo subscriber mailing list, in order to offer them special deals to subscribe to Dish Network instead.

- Freedom to use any of the patented TiVo features in future software updates

- the TiVo trademark and the Season Pass trademark (EchoStar could simply rename all their DVRs "TiVo-DVRs".

they might hire one of TiVo's DVR engineer to explain the details of the TiVo software, and everyone else would get a pink slip (unless there was already a corresponding vacancy at EchoStar).

 

[tnsprin]

The following models were named by TiVo:

Models DP-501, 508, 510, 721, 921, 522, 625, and 942

Which brings up something I hadn't heard mentioned. At one point dish started taking at least one of these models, the 921, and remanufacturing them as another model (381 I think). We know what Dish and Tivo's viewpoint about such will be, but what do you think the court will say about this model? Effected by original injunction?

 

[8bitbytes]

Since EchoStar already has the top rated DVR, they gain nothing from buying TiVo except for the following entirely abstract benefits:

- End to the lawsuit (of course)

- TiVo subscriber mailing list, in order to offer them special deals to subscribe to Dish Network instead.

- Freedom to use any of the patented TiVo features in future software updates

- the TiVo trademark and the Season Pass trademark (EchoStar could simply rename all their DVRs "TiVo-DVRs".

they might hire one of TiVo's DVR engineer to explain the details of the TiVo software, and everyone else would get a pink slip (unless there was already a corresponding vacancy at EchoStar).

AND,

collect all the revenue from Tivo subs and Tivo license holders...

 

[DishSatUser]

Since EchoStar already has the top rated DVR, they gain nothing from buying TiVo except for the following entirely abstract benefits:

- End to the lawsuit (of course)

- TiVo subscriber mailing list, in order to offer them special deals to subscribe to Dish Network instead.

- Freedom to use any of the patented TiVo features in future software updates

- the TiVo trademark and the Season Pass trademark (EchoStar could simply rename all their DVRs "TiVo-DVRs".

they might hire one of TiVo's DVR engineer to explain the details of the TiVo software, and everyone else would get a pink slip (unless there was already a corresponding vacancy at EchoStar).

Similar results in regards to the subscriber mailing list as the PrimeStar conversion effort many years back. E* has done it before, they could do it again.

While bad for the Tivo employee's, staff reductions do induce a stock bounce that E* could use as further "shareholder" inducement. However, E* is intending on creating more products for more markets than just SAT. It's more likely that those engineers could be retained and repurposed for the "Cable" ventures.

 

[rocatman]

Which brings up something I hadn't heard mentioned. At one point dish started taking at least one of these models, the 921, and remanufacturing them as another model (381 I think). We know what Dish and Tivo's viewpoint about such will be, but what do you think the court will say about this model? Effected by original injunction?

I believe the Model 381 was a remanufacutered Model 811, a non-DVR HD MPEG-2 8PSK receiver. The capability to receive HD channels via satellite was disabled in the Model 381 since they were being converted to MPEG-4. This was coupled was the concept of converting all SD channels from MPEG-2 QPSK to MPEG-2 8PSK but Dish decided instead to go to MPEG-4 8PSK for all channels.

 

[riffjim4069]

I noticed this was just posted by the AP...Supreme Court is refusing to hear TiVo vs EchoStar...

TiVo wins DVR patent fight with Dish after Supreme Court declines to get involved

The Supreme Court is refusing to disturb a $74 million judgment against Dish Network Corp. for violating a patent held by TiVo Inc. involving digital video recorders.

The justices denied Englewood, Colo.-based Dish's appeal Monday without comment.

In January, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit agreed with a lower court that DVRs distributed by Dish, formerly known as EchoStar Communications Corp., violated the software elements of Alviso,Calif.-based TiVo's patent. The ruling overturned the lower court's finding that Dish also infringed on the patent's hardware elements.

Full Story

 

[RandallA]

Statement from Dish Network,

DISH Network and EchoStar Statement Regarding Tivo

ENGLEWOOD, Colo., Oct 06, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX News Network/ -- DISH Network Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH) and EchoStar Corporation (Nasdaq: SATS) issued the following statement regarding today's ruling by the United States Supreme Court in EchoStar Communications Corporation vs. Tivo:
"As expected, the Supreme Court denied our petition for certiorari today.

The Supreme Court's decision, however, does not impact our software design-around, which has been placed in DISH DVRs subject to the district court's injunction, and our customers can continue using their DISH DVRs. We believe that the design-around does not infringe Tivo's patent and that Tivo's pending motion for contempt should be denied. We look forward to that ruling in the near future.

Because of the Supreme Court's decision, we will pay Tivo approximately $104 million (the amount the jury awarded in 2006 plus interest). The money is in an escrow account and will be released to Tivo in the next few days."

About DISH Network Corporation
DISH Network Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH), the nation's third largest pay-TV provider and the leader in digital television, provides approximately 13.79 million satellite TV customers as of June 30, 2008 with industry-leading customer satisfaction which has surpassed major cable TV providers for eight consecutive years. DISH Network also provides customers with award-winning HD and DVR technology including the ViP722(TM) HD DVR, which received the Editors' Choice awards from both CNET and PC Magazine. In addition, subscribers enjoy access to hundreds of video and audio channels, the most International channels in the U.S., industry-leading Interactive TV applications, Latino programming, and the best sports and movies in HD. DISH Network offers a variety of package and price options including the lowest all-digital price in America, the DishDVR Advantage Package, high-speed Internet service, and a free upgrade to the best HD DVR in the industry. DISH Network is included in the Nasdaq-100 Index (NDX) and is a Fortune 300 company. Visit DISH Network or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474) for more information.

About EchoStar Corporation
EchoStar Corporation (Nasdaq: SATS) provides equipment sales, digital broadcast operations, and fixed satellite services. EchoStar has 25 years of experience designing, developing and distributing advanced award-winning set-top boxes and related products for pay television providers. The company includes a network of 10 full-service digital broadcast centers and leased fiber optic capacity with points of presence in approximately 150 cities. EchoStar also delivers fixed satellite services from nine owned and leased in-orbit satellites and related FCC licenses. Visit Echostar.com for more information.

SOURCE DISH Network Corporation; EchoStar Corporation
DISH Network -- Home

 

[RandallA]

"We believe that the design-around does not infringe Tivo's patent and that Tivo's pending motion for contempt should be denied. We look forward to that ruling in the near future. "

Somehow that statement doesn't make me feel good about the future of their DVRs.

 

[Curtis0620]

"We believe that the design-around does not infringe Tivo's patent and that Tivo's pending motion for contempt should be denied. We look forward to that ruling in the near future. "

Somehow that statement doesn't make me feel good about the future of their DVRs.

Didn't they say basically the same thing during the original trial?

 

[Curtis0620]

Tivo statement:

TiVo Statement on United States Supreme Court Decision to Deny EchoStar's Appeal: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance

 

[jlhugh]

just pay the freaking money already. i am tired of hearing about this and all the other lawsuits that E* is involved in. quit dragging it through court and get some sh*t done at the company. this is getting old.

 

[HDRoberts]

just pay the freaking money already. i am tired of hearing about this and all the other lawsuits that E* is involved in. quit dragging it through court and get some sh*t done at the company. this is getting old.

umm...

Because of the Supreme Court's decision, we will pay Tivo approximately $104 million (the amount the jury awarded in 2006 plus interest). The money is in an escrow account and will be released to Tivo in the next few days.