No this is common. Your dish has to be in perfect shape for Ku on a C-Band dish.
Also some dishes are better than others for Ku.
Titanium Satellite CK1S
- Thread starter Magic Static
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 53
- Views 8K
- Status
Also some dishes are better than others for Ku.
A few cases of CK1s Combo LNBFs will be delivered with the next inbound container. The CK1s sold, but very slowly. Not planning on carrying much stock or invest in design changes. The CK1s will be a Titanium Satellite Store/Ebay/ Amazon retail product only.
This manufacturer's design of C/KU combo LNBF provides the best overall performance of any combo that I have tested. It is possible to work great for both bands on some BUDs or be great on one band and not so good on the other. My frustration is that the performance is not predictable as it varies so much depending on the dish surface accuracy (as KE4EST pointed out), but more important, the FD Ratio , Focal Length and the installer's patience with optimizing.
The mechanical challenge is that the feedhorn throat is tuned for C-band frequencies and not tuned for KU band frequencies. This often causes phasing problems with KU signals bouncing around in an untuned tube. If the feedhorn is installed to optimize C-band, the KU signals may be out of phase when reaching the KU-band LNB probes. If the dish has the perfect combination of FD ratio, Focal Length with the feedhorn positioned perfectly, signals for both C-band and KU bands will reach the probes with correct phasing.
Spacers can often be added between the feedhorn and the KU LNB housings to position the probes for correct phase presentation. The spacers thickness will vary between dishes and correct placement would only be reached via experimentation.
This manufacturer's design of C/KU combo LNBF provides the best overall performance of any combo that I have tested. It is possible to work great for both bands on some BUDs or be great on one band and not so good on the other. My frustration is that the performance is not predictable as it varies so much depending on the dish surface accuracy (as KE4EST pointed out), but more important, the FD Ratio , Focal Length and the installer's patience with optimizing.
The mechanical challenge is that the feedhorn throat is tuned for C-band frequencies and not tuned for KU band frequencies. This often causes phasing problems with KU signals bouncing around in an untuned tube. If the feedhorn is installed to optimize C-band, the KU signals may be out of phase when reaching the KU-band LNB probes. If the dish has the perfect combination of FD ratio, Focal Length with the feedhorn positioned perfectly, signals for both C-band and KU bands will reach the probes with correct phasing.
Spacers can often be added between the feedhorn and the KU LNB housings to position the probes for correct phase presentation. The spacers thickness will vary between dishes and correct placement would only be reached via experimentation.
Well, now that my head is spinning.... I'll probably give my combo away to someone later on, that is unless, Titanium would like to come on over and demonstrate that dancing with knives routine...
Unfortunately, the bottom line on any current model C/KU combo LNBF is the same. Works great on some systems and poorly on others. 
Unfortunately, the bottom line on any current model C/KU combo LNBF is the same. Works great on some systems and poorly on others.
Yup, the C/Ku combos work really well on two of my systems, but, like you said, they don't work well on all of them. That Unimesh dish I have (3rd system) is a piece of crap and BOTH C and Ku don't come near performing as well as the Raydx and the Winegard dishes do. Since that Unimesh system feeds the TV in my bedroom and we mostly watch recorded stuff from the other two systems there it's not a big problem at this point. There's more than a few TPs that I get on that Unimesh dish that won't lock if I move the dish a couple of clicks in either direction.
I'll probably pick up a couple of those Combos when you get that next shipment in.
I didn't even have to click the link to know what this solution was.
Well I have a newly installed 8' unimesh dish with the aforementioned Titatanium CK1S combo LNBF.
Have only had it up and running a month or so.
Installed the LNBF - C-band works very well I'd say...scanned for KU signals, terrible!
So Brian, when you say FD ratio and focal length are critical, do you have a link an illustration/diagram etc. to help us BUD newbies out?
since c-band is my primary interest, am leery to move it to possibly get a few ku chs. of interest...would I be better of switching to a c-band lnbf only?
Have only had it up and running a month or so.
Installed the LNBF - C-band works very well I'd say...scanned for KU signals, terrible!
So Brian, when you say FD ratio and focal length are critical, do you have a link an illustration/diagram etc. to help us BUD newbies out?
since c-band is my primary interest, am leery to move it to possibly get a few ku chs. of interest...would I be better of switching to a c-band lnbf only?
Feedhorn placement is hyper-critical for the higher frequencies of KU band. It becomes even more critical for the combo C/KU feedhorns. If the signals are not converging and reflecting inside of the feedhorn cavity at just the right angles, the signals may arrive at the probes out of phase. I have found that it often takes many minute adjustments while comparing C and KU meter readings to find the perfect balance to optimize both C and KU bands. With that said, some dishes FD / FL designs are better than others for balancing the C and KU performance. Some hobbyists have experimented by moving the KU section away from the feedhorn by inserting spacers between the two sections. This fine-tuning technique places the KU probes in better position to capture the reflected signals.
Here is a link to to the install sheet providing instructions and calculations for the scalar and feedhorn settings: http://titaniumsatellite.com/downloads/Guides/CK1S_LNBF_Install_Guide.pdf
What is the diameter of your dish from edge to edge of the parabola? What is the depth of the reflector?
Is the scalar placed at the correct distance? When the feedhorn is set to the calculated FD ratio stamp, is the focal length measurement correct?
Additional Information: The FL measurement made 1/4" inside the feedhorn will often provides better performance on a shallow FD ratio reflector when this point is moved deeper into the throat (moving the feedhorn closer to the reflector).
On my personal I use a dedicated C-band LNBF on the BUD and a separate 90cm dish for KU. I am not a fan of combo LNBFs, but I will carry the best performance model of the combo C/KU for the folks who want them!
Here is a link to to the install sheet providing instructions and calculations for the scalar and feedhorn settings: http://titaniumsatellite.com/downloads/Guides/CK1S_LNBF_Install_Guide.pdf
What is the diameter of your dish from edge to edge of the parabola? What is the depth of the reflector?
Is the scalar placed at the correct distance? When the feedhorn is set to the calculated FD ratio stamp, is the focal length measurement correct?
Additional Information: The FL measurement made 1/4" inside the feedhorn will often provides better performance on a shallow FD ratio reflector when this point is moved deeper into the throat (moving the feedhorn closer to the reflector).
On my personal I use a dedicated C-band LNBF on the BUD and a separate 90cm dish for KU. I am not a fan of combo LNBFs, but I will carry the best performance model of the combo C/KU for the folks who want them!
Last edited:
Feedhorn placement is hyper-critical for the higher frequencies of KU band. It becomes even more critical for the combo C/KU feedhorns. If the signals are not converging and reflecting inside of the feedhorn cavity at just the right angles, the signals may arrive at the probes out of phase. I have found that it often takes many minute adjustments while comparing C and KU meter readings to find the perfect balance to optimize both C and KU bands. With that said, some dishes FD / FL designs are better than others for balancing the C and KU performance. Some hobbyists have experimented by moving the KU section away from the feedhorn by inserting spacers between the two sections. This fine-tuning technique places the KU probes in better position to capture the reflected signals.
Here is a link to to the install sheet providing instructions and calculations for the scalar and feedhorn settings: http://titaniumsatellite.com/downloads/Guides/CK1S_LNBF_Install_Guide.pdf
What is the diameter of your dish from edge to edge of the parabola? What is the depth of the reflector?
Is the scalar placed at the correct distance? When the feedhorn is set to the calculated FD ratio stamp, is the focal length measurement correct?
Additional Information: The FL measurement made 1/4" inside the feedhorn will often provides better performance on a shallow FD ratio reflector when this point is moved deeper into the throat (moving the feedhorn closer to the reflector).
On my personal I use a dedicated C-band LNBF on the BUD and a separate 90cm dish for KU. I am not a fan of combo LNBFs, but I will carry the best performance model of the combo C/KU for the folks who want them!
Brian,
Thanks once again! By the way , you gave me guidance on replacing a venture actuator and I got in on and synchronized with the ASC1 !
I wondered if I could run something else by you briefly - relating to the ASC1 and my FTA receiver (X2 square premium4)?
*Fairly regular issue is I select a programmed in satellite/position , say I am on 97W and pick sat 99W only 2 degrees away, about 1/4 of the time the dish won't move. Sometimes this gets resolved by turning the ASC1 on/off and when it powers back on it moves, sometimes that doesn't work and I am forced to tap the positioner over to the position one tap at a time. Again, I have about 12 or 13 satellites programmed in to my receiver and saved in to the ASC1.
I know it's not fair to ask you to guess...however do you think it is more likely a glitch in the receiver or possibly an issue within the ASC1? The ASC1 I bought from amazon about 2 months ago, an open box unit, which I might be able to return barely. I am considering replacing the X2 Square box with a manhattan receiver? I have minor audio issues, can not update and edit channels well with the X2 square box.
The positioner/receiver do what they should do the majority of the time but the non-movement of the dish gets a bit frustrating and old after a while and I am cognoscente that my window to return the asc1 is closing.
Thanks much! Dave , Connecticut
Glad to hear that the new actuator is installed and synced!
I believe that you will find that this does not happen with a different receiver. By power cycling the ASC1, this cuts the signal from the STB and it causes the STB to reissue any 22KHz/DiSEqC commands to reestablish the signal path. Unlikely to be an issue with the ASC1 or related to it being an open box.
DiSEqC motor and switch control has not been a strength of several of the X2 models. The 22KHz/DiSEqC control signal levels are often quite low and even lower if on a vertical transponder (13Vdc) vs a horizontal transponder (18Vdc). See if this problem usually happens when the STB is on a vertical transponder/channel or moving to a vertical transponder/channel. If you have a cheapo satellite meter that shows 22KHz ON/OFF, connect to the ASC1 LNB connection and observe if it rapidly flickers when you select a different satellite while on a vertical transponder / Going to a vertical transponder? Does it rapidly flicker when you select a different satellite while on a vertical transponder / Going to a Horizontal transponder? Does it rapidly flicker when you select a different satellite while on a horizontal transponder / Going to a vertical transponder? Does it rapidly flicker when you select a different satellite while on a horizontal transponder / Going to a horizontal transponder? This test is even better if you can observe the control signal amplitude on a scope, but in a pinch, the cheapo meter will tell you a lot!
I believe that you will find that this does not happen with a different receiver. By power cycling the ASC1, this cuts the signal from the STB and it causes the STB to reissue any 22KHz/DiSEqC commands to reestablish the signal path. Unlikely to be an issue with the ASC1 or related to it being an open box.
DiSEqC motor and switch control has not been a strength of several of the X2 models. The 22KHz/DiSEqC control signal levels are often quite low and even lower if on a vertical transponder (13Vdc) vs a horizontal transponder (18Vdc). See if this problem usually happens when the STB is on a vertical transponder/channel or moving to a vertical transponder/channel. If you have a cheapo satellite meter that shows 22KHz ON/OFF, connect to the ASC1 LNB connection and observe if it rapidly flickers when you select a different satellite while on a vertical transponder / Going to a vertical transponder? Does it rapidly flicker when you select a different satellite while on a vertical transponder / Going to a Horizontal transponder? Does it rapidly flicker when you select a different satellite while on a horizontal transponder / Going to a vertical transponder? Does it rapidly flicker when you select a different satellite while on a horizontal transponder / Going to a horizontal transponder? This test is even better if you can observe the control signal amplitude on a scope, but in a pinch, the cheapo meter will tell you a lot!
- Status
