Time to upgrade? cable question (and maybe more)

[bobvick]

I'm currently out of contract and my cableco ran a full page in today's paper about their new whole home service. I'm waiting for more info but a 6 tuner dvr, full channel lineup, including BTN, CSN and TCN, which I can't get or have to pay extra for, is $153/mo for 4 tvs and that includes 15Mbps internet. Right now I'm paying 173/mo for AEP and 2H/2J plus 49.95 for internet with my cableco. The 153 doesn't include premiums but I could get HBO/SHO for 32 and still be $40-$50 a month below Dish. It's tempting.

Sounds like a good deal to me too, BUT, how long is the price guaranteed? I just know I have read stores of where cable sometimes jacks the prices way way up after the discounts go. Yours could not be one of them, might be worth asking though. Also have you got to test out their equipment you would be using? Do they maybe have a store you could go and get a "test drive"?


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[nwflyboy]

DIRT is not affiliated with this forum, it stands for Dish Internet Response Team, they are employees of DISH and they monitor other sites. They are different from DISH CSRs in that they know things and get the job done fairly smoothly.

I understand that DIRT are Dish employees, and that they are "special" members here who are responsive and perhaps more helpful/useful than the average CSR you might get when calling Dish. My question was more about what process to use to 1) get the best deal possible on an upgrade, and 2) give the business to someone deserving (if there's any benefit to he/she who does the upgrade - IIRC, when I first signed up, there were lots of Dish "agents" who actually did the work, it appeared to be somewhat competitive and run by semi-independent businesses - but I'm not 100% clear on how it works for upgrades and pricing).

FWIW, I believe I have seen more than a few posts (and have been recommended specifically to) contact the DIRT team to see how they can set me up with an upgrade deal (maybe the DIRT recommendations were only for technical assistance on what would be best?). Thus my confusion about process...

Any price negotiations will likely be done thru the retention department. I called to cancel with every intention of actually cancelling. I declined several offers until they worked all the way up to a $45x12 month bill credit. My account has always been in good standing, autopay etc, and I do have several friend referrals on the account as well. I'm sure they take everything into consideration. Just be polite and friendly and see what they can do.

Sounds like you got a very attractive deal. Did you have to haggle very hard to get the escalated offer?

Ultimately my question is, who do I contact to discuss an upgrade? Just call Dish customer service and tell them I'm trying to decide whether to cancel and switch to CableCo or perhaps upgrade? Or email DIRT? Someone else?

Thanks.

 

[KAB]

Could you please elaborate on the details of the cabling (and this "node" you refer to), so I better understand?

Right now, we have HDMI (I believe) running from the actual sat dish (on the roof) to a plastic junction box on the exterior of our house. (Is this plastic jucntion box the "node" you're referring to? If not, what is the node?) Then there are 3 coax cables going out from the plastic junction box to....

• one coax goes from the junction box to the 722 in the living room (there's a HD TV#1 connected directly to the 722 via HDMI)
  
• one coax goes from the junction box to TV#2 in the upstairs bedroom (this has only been receiving an SD signal but we want HD up there now)
  
• one coax goes from the junction box to the 211k connected to TV#3 in an upstairs office (this is an older, small TV and currently doesn't need HD)

I had been told that coax cable is not capable of transmitting HD programming, and that the coax would need to be replaced with HDMI in order to get HD (at least to TV#2).

Are you saying that the existing coax cables we have - which run from the plastic junction box on the exterior of the house to each room with a TV - would not need to be replaced with HDMI?

In other words, will coax work to transmit the signal from the plastic junction box to each Dish box (whether that's a Hopper or Joey), in full HD? That is, the only HDMI cabling required would be the short cable to connect each TV directly to it's Hopper/Joey (and the Hopper/Joey can be connected to the "node" via coax)?

The reason I ask (probably obviously) is because I would rather not replace all the coax (which would involve, among other things, drilling multiple new holes through the exterior walls of the house to several rooms, plus running HDMI all around the exterior and though portions of the interior). If the existing coax could be used (and still get good HD) then it would be a much less involved upgrade.

Based on what I've been told and have read elsewhere, I'm guessing that simply re-using all the coax that's already in place is "too good to be true" and ain't gonna work - but I would love to be proved wrong on that.

Thanks for clarification.

Cables running from Sat dish to you junction box are standard RG6 coax cable, NOT HDMI!
Your existing cabling, provided it is RG6, should not need to be replaced. The Node is used solely for Hopper installs, so you do not presently have one.
Like you said, HDMI comes into play for connecting the Hopper and Joeys to the HD TV's only.

 

[satnewb]

I understand that DIRT are Dish employees, and that they are "special" members here who are responsive and perhaps more helpful/useful than the average CSR you might get when calling Dish. My question was more about what process to use to 1) get the best deal possible on an upgrade, and 2) give the business to someone deserving (if there's any benefit to he/she who does the upgrade - IIRC, when I first signed up, there were lots of Dish "agents" who actually did the work, it appeared to be somewhat competitive and run by semi-independent businesses - but I'm not 100% clear on how it works for upgrades and pricing).

FWIW, I believe I have seen more than a few posts (and have been recommended specifically to) contact the DIRT team to see how they can set me up with an upgrade deal (maybe the DIRT recommendations were only for technical assistance on what would be best?). Thus my confusion about process...



Sounds like you got a very attractive deal. Did you have to haggle very hard to get the escalated offer?

Ultimately my question is, who do I contact to discuss an upgrade? Just call Dish customer service and tell them I'm trying to decide whether to cancel and switch to CableCo or perhaps upgrade? Or email DIRT? Someone else?

Thanks.

I really didn't haggle at all. I called normal customer service to cancel, they transferred me to the retention department, which is the folks that can actually process the cancellation. From that point the negotiation process started from their end after I explained that I could just cancel and restart service in my wifes name and get the new customer offers. His first offer was 25*12. Several polite no thank yous later he was at 45*12. At that point I realized it was going to be a better price than a new customer so I said yes.

 

[nwflyboy]

Cables running from Sat dish to you junction box are standard RG6 coax cable, NOT HDMI!

OK, I stand corrected. It doesn't look like coax to me (at least what I'm used to) - it's flat-ish, a rectangular-ish profile, but it's up high and I didn't make a close inspection. I'll take your word for it.

Your existing cabling, provided it is RG6, should not need to be replaced.

This is very good news - I'd really prefer to avoid drilling holes through the house if possible.

The Node is used solely for Hopper installs, so you do not presently have one.

Where does the node go? Outside the house, with the plastic junction box? Adjacent to/near the Hopper? Someplace else? Roughly how large is it?

Like you said, HDMI comes into play for connecting the Hopper and Joeys to the HD TV's only.

Ah, so the only HDMI requirements is for connecting the TVs to whatever box (Hopper/Joey) directly feeds it (nearby)? That's great - a few yards of HDMI rather than a quarter mile of it. I'm feeling better about this.

 

[nwflyboy]

I really didn't haggle at all. I called normal customer service to cancel, they transferred me to the retention department, which is the folks that can actually process the cancellation. From that point the negotiation process started from their end after I explained that I could just cancel and restart service in my wifes name and get the new customer offers. His first offer was 25*12. Several polite no thank yous later he was at 45*12. At that point I realized it was going to be a better price than a new customer so I said yes.

Nice.

I'm sure the "best offer" anyone will ultimately get varies and depends on many factors (how long you've been with them, how large a consumer of their services you have been, etc. - just like the "retention offer" you may get when calling to close a credit card). Your info is very helpful, thank you.

 

[satnewb]

That rectangular looking cable outside at the dish is dual RG6. 2 lines bonded together into 1 to make it easier on the techs. Keep in mind you need 1 line per receiver (722/211) and it makes a little more sense. Those same 2 lines will provide all 3 tuners once they are connected to the node.

The node can go pretty much anywhere. Ideally in your junction box if there's room, available ground source, etc.

 

[nwflyboy]

That rectangular looking cable outside at the dish is dual RG6. 2 lines bonded together into 1 to make it easier on the techs. Keep in mind you need 1 line per receiver (722/211) and it makes a little more sense. Those same 2 lines will provide all 3 tuners once they are connected to the node.

The node can go pretty much anywhere. Ideally in your junction box if there's room, available ground source, etc.

Ah, makes sense.

And the "node" is small, and doesn't need to be near the TV/Hopper/Joey. Cool.

Thanks!

 

[harshness]

Coax as a point of reference is getting severely overloaded in this thread. It is a fundamental tool and not a technology or a protocol as it has been used here.

In the OP, it sounds like what was really being talked about was modulated TV channels and for all practical purposes, modulation of HD is prohibitively expensive (as compared to relatively cheap NTSC analog modulation). TV2 is, by design, limited to NTSC video (either RF modulated or through line out jacks). As such, it is not suitable for bringing HD to a second TV.

 

[KAB]

Where does the node go? Outside the house, with the plastic junction box? Adjacent to/near the Hopper? Someplace else? Roughly how large is it?

Yes, probably. It's about 3" square.

 

[oldengineer]

Sounds like a good deal to me too, BUT, how long is the price guaranteed? I just know I have read stores of where cable sometimes jacks the prices way way up after the discounts go. Yours could not be one of them, might be worth asking though. Also have you got to test out their equipment you would be using? Do they maybe have a store you could go and get a "test drive"?


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Good points. I'm also looking for answers about upfront fees and security deposits, hard drive size and recording time (they still use mpeg-2 AFAIK) and contract if applicable. The box also has a built in router but they don't mention wireless capability. I'm a long way from switching right now but it's nice to know there is one more option at my disposal.

 

[Bobby]

Yes, probably. It's about 3" square.

It is actually 4"x4.5"x1" deep. It is also important to understand that coax cables are attached to the 4.5" sides so there needs to be room for for the cables to flow. The node can be mounted outside if need be...

 

[nwflyboy]

Thanks for the details on the "node" (is that what they call it? What, no cute name for this box? Have they run out of marsupials? Maybe they're saving The Platypus for something else...). I was just looking for some sense of scale, sounds like it's roughly "external hard drive size" - good enough.

I am in a somewhat moist environment (US Pacific Northwest, we get some rain here) - any concerns about mounting the node outside? We have the junction box outside, so if it's no more susceptible to humidity issues than what's in the plastic junction box, then outside would probably be best, considering the location of other things.

The current sequence of gear we have goes like this:
sat dish to outdoor junction box (via dual RG6, apparently) -> junction box outside -> three separate single RG6 coax cables to various entry points around the house, through walls, and each into 3 separate items: 1) VIP722 (connected to TV#1 via HDMI), 2) directly into TV#2 (currently SD), and 3) into VIP211k (then into small SD TV).

Given this...

With the Hopper/Joey set up, the cables from the dish connect to a node. Then coax from the node feeds each Joey/Hopper.

Would it be correct to assume that the (new) node would get inserted inline between the sat dish and the existing junction box? That way, I assume all the existing coax could be left in place...

Thanks.

 

[Bobby]

How big is the junction box? If you can fit the node, node dual coax, 3 single coaxes, and one standard sized splitter into it, all is well. If not, the dual coax can come out of the box attach to the node, mounted outside of it and then 2 single coaxes leave the node and enter the junction box and make their connections as needed.

edit: With the Hopper Joey system you can not use any other kinds of Dish receivers in the house, except that 211K, if you own it, not lease it. If that is what you want to do, another coax must be run from the satellite dish to the junction box... You would not see anything from the Hopper on the 211K in this configuration, it is standalone....

 

[KAB]

It is actually 4"x4.5"x1" deep.

Do you have a duo node? Measured single....3X3"

 

[Bobby]

Do you have a duo node? Measured single....3X3"

I have a brand new SOLO node in my hand. It is the measurements that I have given, unless my ruler is faulty...

 

[Jim5506]

A clarification, coax is capable of carrying HD signal and it does, but only in certain circumstances: from the dish lnb to your receiver, from your antenna to your TV or TiVo or set top box.

Any coaxial cables from the set top box of any kind directly to a TV will 99.99% of the time not be HD because the box does not output the RF signal in HD.

Almost all HD connections (I say almost, because inevitably someone will come up with an obscure exception) from a receiver/set top box will be either HDMI or Component (RGB), but saying that coaxial cable cannot carry an HD signal is incorrect unless qualified as it being from your receiver to the TV.

 

[KAB]

I have a brand new SOLO node in my hand. It is the measurements that I have given, unless my ruler is faulty...

You use a ruler? You still in elementary school? When you grow up you will discover a tape measure.

They must have different manufactures. Mine is definitely 3x3. Yes I measured...with a tape measure.

 

[Bobby]

A clarification, coax is capable of carrying HD signal and it does, but only in certain circumstances: from the dish lnb to your receiver, from your antenna to your TV or TiVo or set top box.

Any coaxial cables from the set top box of any kind directly to a TV will 99.99% of the time not be HD because the box does not output the RF signal in HD.

Almost all HD connections (I say almost, because inevitably someone will come up with an obscure exception) from a receiver/set top box will be either HDMI or Component (RGB), but saying that coaxial cable cannot carry an HD signal is incorrect unless qualified as it being from your receiver to the TV.

I just measured my working single node in the garage, with a tape measure. If you are measuring the body only, it is 3" X 3". But, you have grounding screws on 2 sides and the mail coax ends on the other two. When you add those in you get my original measurements.

And by the way, I've been an engineer in my time and rulers are the norm. It just so happened that my never used, brand new, single node was in a cabinet next to my desk. In my desk are a regular school ruler, an engineering ruler (scale) and an architect's scale....

 

[KAB]

I just measured my working single node in the garage, with a tape measure. If you are measuring the body only, it is 3" X 3". But, you have grounding screws on 2 sides and the mail coax ends on the other two. When you add those in you get my original measurements.

Details!