Time to hop in the DeLorean........

[GregN]

They could move the HD to the 105 and have enough room ( 2 transponders)to move the locals off the wing slots to dish 500. I count 17 channels.

Seems to be the most logical and most economical everyone who wants HD gets a free Superdish with 1 year of sub.

How many HD subs 500,000 to 250,000?

(Plus 6 at 148° that would have to be moved)
Chicago has 4 locals at 110° another 4 at 119° (Plus 6 at 61.5° that would have to be moved)
Boston has 7 locals at 119° and 1 at 110° (Plus 5 at 61.5° that would have to be moved)

See ya
Tony

 

[dishrich]

While this may be true, you have to realize that D* only had the 101 to start with...

Uh, ok, thx (I think) for the history lesson that I ALREADY knew about - I have NO idea what this has to do with the FACT that D* has ALWAYS been able to serve EVERY single market since day 1 from the same slot. There is NO reason whatsoever why E* could NOT have done the SAME thing, then they would NOT be in this pickle.

Anyway, in order to serve the most markets the fastest, E* put the 4 main networks on the 500, and then stuck the others on a wing. This gave them the capacity to add locals faster, since most folks are only concerned with the 4 main(well, now 6) locals anyway.

And THAT's the MAIN reason why E* did this - to get the MAXIMUM number of subs in the MAXIMUM number of markets. Well, I guess NOW they can pay for it.

They were blessed for this, and now they are being burned at the stake for it.

Oh well, if you're gonna play with the big boys, (the NAB) you had better KNOW how to do it RIGHT - obviously, E* (still) doesn't know how.

Yes, you have to ask for the 2nd dish, but E* has never turned down anyone for it.

Well, since you ARE an installer yourself, if E* REALLY wanted to make it SO easy for folks to get those 2nd dishes, WHY is it they do NOT pay the local retailers, who are putting in the system anyway, put the damm dish in at the time of install? (I KNOW this for a fact, since I AM one myself) Instead, a brand NEW customer must call E*, go through an inquisition of exactly WHICH channel they are looking for, then they must make arrangements out of their schedule for ANOTHER day for E* to come in & slap up the 2nd dish. (which in many cases, they screwed up the original installer's work, but that's another discussion...) There really is NO reason for this, other than this is just another way for cheap charlie to weasle out of putting up the 2nd dish.

The only problem really ends up being no line of sight for the wing.

So now, we still have the same problem of the secondary stations at a disadvantage in the SAME market where the other ones do NOT.

Should E* have required the second dish install? Well, sure, but this might have lost them customers over channels that most people could care less about.

No, if they had just done it right in the first place like D* did, NOBODY would even be having any problems & we would NOT be having this discussion.

 

[dishrich]

Thank you ,this is what I have been saying . I understand what the FCC wants with the locals being on one Dish. I think Charlie could spread them over three slots like 110,119 and the 105 other wise known as the Superdish and they would still be following the "spirit of the law ." Dish has always flaunted the rules about locals from the very start of local into local.

THAT'S the understatement of the year!!! But the thing is, if E* does end up moving all these must-carry's to the SD, it STILL is NOT solving the problem, at least from those same TV station's perspective. The thing is, ALL people in ALL of these markets will NOW need to have a SD to get ALL of the locals in that particular market. The customers will need to make the effort to get it installed, assuming they even want it in the first place. (most likely, most will NOT, due to it's size, special mounting requirements over a D500, can see 105, etc) The end result is, all of these people STILL won't be able to get those secondary stations, which is NO better than when they declined the 2nd dish.

I believe these stations will eventually catch on to this & will end up getting the law changed again to be slot specific, which E* will end up loosing (again)...

 

[hancox]

The only problem really ends up being no line of sight for the wing.

Yeah, but I'm not sure that will ever be fixed. With D* going to 5 lnb's whenever, and this wing stuff from E*, LOS is going to start getting ugly.


Chainsaw time! :dev

 

[BobMurdoch]

OK, now that my thread topic has been kicked around for a few days, I'll give you my two cents....

E* sends letters to the bottom 100 or so markets telling them that Congress passed a law requiring all locals to be shifted to a single dish on a wing satellite. In response to this, all subscribers in these markets must agree to have a 2nd dish installed along with all relevant switches. E* will absorb these charges like they did last time. Folks in larger areas will see their secondary local channels shifted from the wings to 110 (or 119 for New York and LA). They might go the Superdish route instead if they have finally solved their problems where (oopsie) places like Maine, Washington, Florida, and California couldn't see the higher satellites well enough.....

 

[larrystotler]

Uh, ok, thx (I think) for the history lesson that I ALREADY knew about - I have NO idea what this has to do with the FACT that D* has ALWAYS been able to serve EVERY single market since day 1 from the same slot. There is NO reason whatsoever why E* could NOT have done the SAME thing, then they would NOT be in this pickle.

That's because #1 D*'s sats have always been able to be seen from 1 dish. E*'s has way too much spacing for this to work.

And THAT's the MAIN reason why E* did this - to get the MAXIMUM number of subs in the MAXIMUM number of markets. Well, I guess NOW they can pay for it. Oh well, if you're gonna play with the big boys, (the NAB) you had better KNOW how to do it RIGHT - obviously, E* (still) doesn't know how.

Sure, they did what was wanted. The ability to provide locals to as many customer as fast as possible. New spotbeam sats are expensive, and E* used what they had to get locals to as many as possible as fast as possible. Like I said, nobody really started to whine until the useless channels on the side slots realized they were getting "cheated".

Well, since you ARE an installer yourself, if E* REALLY wanted to make it SO easy for folks to get those 2nd dishes, WHY is it they do NOT pay the local retailers, who are putting in the system anyway, put the damm dish in at the time of install? (I KNOW this for a fact, since I AM one myself) Instead, a brand NEW customer must call E*, go through an inquisition of exactly WHICH channel they are looking for, then they must make arrangements out of their schedule for ANOTHER day for E* to come in & slap up the 2nd dish. (which in many cases, they screwed up the original installer's work, but that's another discussion...) There really is NO reason for this, other than this is just another way for cheap charlie to weasle out of putting up the 2nd dish.

No actually, it has to do with the deals that they have with the RSPs, and you know how that works. They get all that type of work, and the retailers get the main installs and commisions. Also, if you are on the retailer referral program, you have to install the must carry if it is specified. Hey, I would put in the second dish since it would pay a little more and I would probably use less wire on 4 receiver installs, but with the way the RSPs have it, it's not allowed. Full disclosure is make to EVERY customer by E*'s CSRs. Yes, it does require another step, and so yes it is a bad system. Yet, in the DC area where my locals are from, it's in most subs interest to not have it since there isn't anything worth watching anyway.

No, if they had just done it right in the first place like D* did, NOBODY would even be having any problems & we would NOT be having this discussion.

If I am not mistaken, D*'s first spot beam sat was at the 101, and the 119 was added later since they got the 119 later. So, it was in their interests to do it that way. E* had capacity on the wings, and they used that.

Look, I am not saying what they did was perfect or right, but quite frankly, the NAB is a bunch of self interested idiots to begin with. If they wanted people to be able to get their locals, they would have made it easier for the sat companies to carry them. Instead we have a bunch of BS rules that make very little sense to anyone but the lawyers. They act like they are trying to keep people from watching their locals. I'm almost to the point where I want to cancel them since there is no point in paying the extra $5 for something I almost never watch.

On Justice League, the Justice on Trial Episode, the court told the Flash that he would have to accept the same fate as GL. He said that was crazy, and was told "No, that's how we solved our lawyer problem."

 

[dishrich]

That's because #1 D*'s sats have always been able to be seen from 1 dish. E*'s has way too much spacing for this to work.

WRONG answer - what does the spacing have ANYTHING to do with D* "doing it right"??? Actually, E* had MORE CONUS capacity to do it BETTER than D*, but instead built cheaper spotbeam birds than D* did, hence the reason why E* has LESS CONUS spotbeam capacity than D* does.

When the first spotbeams started coming out, D* had only 32 x-ponders at 101, vs E*'s 50, if you count both 119 & 110. (even now if you count the capacity D* has at 110/119, they still only have 46 x-ponders across ALL THREE CONUS slots, compared to E*'s at 119/110) I say this, since E* made the D500 the "standard" issue dish for all markets. If E* had the forthought to have better designed their 2 spotbeam birds at 110 & 119, they could have VERY easily carried ALL locals for EVERY current market at 110/119, plus even had some space left over for some smaller markets, ALL using just a D500. If you have ever seen the spotbeam layouts for both E* & D* fleet of birds, you could easily understand this. Right now, D* is ONLY using 6 x-ponders@101 for spotbeams vs E* using 10 x-ponders (5 on 110/119 each) so again, D* should easily have been able to outdo E* & STILL carry ALL locals on CONUS.

No actually, it has to do with the deals that they have with the RSPs, and you know how that works.

Obviously, you must NOT have been installing for E* too long & are missing my point. Back when all of this wing dish f/MC started, E* would NOT EVER, EVER pay the local retailers to install these 2nd dishes as part of bring on a new customer. The new CUSTOMER HAD to make the call back to E* themselves, AFTER the retailer was done with his work. I guarantee you that is one of MAIN problems the broadcasters had with this. If E* had the good sense to pay the retailer to complete ALL of the work at the time of install, it would have at least "looked" like he was following through with 2nd dish installs. Instead, the customer had to basically work to get it THEMSELVES.

Of course NOW that the s#%t started hitting the fan, Charlie had a change of heart & has NOW decided that we local dealers CAN install these things - TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

 

[MikeD-C05]

THAT'S the understatement of the year!!! But the thing is, if E* does end up moving all these must-carry's to the SD, it STILL is NOT solving the problem, at least from those same TV station's perspective. The thing is, ALL people in ALL of these markets will NOW need to have a SD to get ALL of the locals in that particular market. The customers will need to make the effort to get it installed, assuming they even want it in the first place. (most likely, most will NOT, due to it's size, special mounting requirements over a D500, can see 105, etc) The end result is, all of these people STILL won't be able to get those secondary stations, which is NO better than when they declined the 2nd dish.

I believe these stations will eventually catch on to this & will end up getting the law changed again to be slot specific, which E* will end up loosing (again)...

That is what I have been saying all along. Charlie will keep flaunting the rules till the FCC says in plain English exactly what they expect without any loopholes in it. Till then Charlie will exploit any to flaunt the rules. The very thing you are saying about most people not bothering to upgrade to the Superdish which will mean they won't be seeing the secondary stations , is what I am sure Charlie wants. THen he still can screw the must carry station rules and get out of paying for a Superdish upgrade for every customer in the affected 36 markets. This is a win /win situation for Charlie. IF , by some miracle Charlie decides to do the right thing and do what the FCC intended by the rules , I will be surprised. His history speaks for itself. He is a maverik and he doesn't like rules and often doesn't follow them. Besides he can easily argue that the Superdish has all the locals on ONE DISH and a lawyer can argue that in court and it looks credible. Even if we all know that is not what the FCC meant by the locals all on one dish.

 

[rocatman]

WRONG answer - what does the spacing have ANYTHING to do with D* "doing it right"??? Actually, E* had MORE CONUS capacity to do it BETTER than D*, but instead built cheaper spotbeam birds than D* did, hence the reason why E* has LESS CONUS spotbeam capacity than D* does.

When the first spotbeams started coming out, D* had only 32 x-ponders at 101, vs E*'s 50, if you count both 119 & 110. (even now if you count the capacity D* has at 110/119, they still only have 46 x-ponders across ALL THREE CONUS slots, compared to E*'s at 119/110) I say this, since E* made the D500 the "standard" issue dish for all markets. If E* had the forthought to have better designed their 2 spotbeam birds at 110 & 119, they could have VERY easily carried ALL locals for EVERY current market at 110/119, plus even had some space left over for some smaller markets, ALL using just a D500. If you have ever seen the spotbeam layouts for both E* & D* fleet of birds, you could easily understand this. Right now, D* is ONLY using 6 x-ponders@101 for spotbeams vs E* using 10 x-ponders (5 on 110/119 each) so again, D* should easily have been able to outdo E* & STILL carry ALL locals on CONUS.

First, I don't know what you mean by CONUS spotbeam capacity. TPs are either CONUS or spotbeam. DirecTV's latest spotbeam satellite is newer than either of Dish's so it was not a matter of Dish buying cheaper satellites, the technology wasn't completely there when Dish contracted to have their spotbeam satellites built.

Putting the installation issues aside, do you think customers would rather have most of their locals on a D500 with the option of a second dish or wait for years before locals are available? DirecTV has made folks wait years for their locals and I am sure lost some subscribers while Dish moved ahead with their two dish strategy and made significant subscriber gains. Of course if your priority is the broadcasters instead of the customers like the FCC, you don't have a problem making customers wait to get their locals or have no choice but to pay the always rising cable company prices to get locals.
Now DirecTV has customers in some markets needing a second dish to get all their locals and still trails Dish in the number of markets they offer locals by about 20. Admittedly Dish has a handful of markets where all the locals are on a wing satellite as well.

Dish's next satellite, Echostar-10 (E-10) will have 45 spotbeams on it at 110 compared to the current spotbeam satellite at 110 that only has 15. It is suppose to launch sometime in the latter half of 2005. The single dish for locals legislation that passed the House but not the Senate required compliance in one year after enactment that should give Dish time to get E-10 operational. There is no doubt that when E-10 is operational, the locals on the wings for almost all of the 36 markets will be moved to 110. 20 of these 36 markets are in the 25 of all T.V. markets. The locals for 2 of these markets, Roanoke, VA and Little Rock, AR are on CONUS TPs on 110 and will assuredly be moved to spotbeams. I wouldn't expect any movement of wing locals to Superdish slots until late 2005 at the earliest because of the one year deadline in the legislation and I think this would be in a very limited number of markets.

 

[RBBrittain]

That is what I have been saying all along. Charlie will keep flaunting the rules till the FCC says in plain English exactly what they expect without any loopholes in it. Till then Charlie will exploit any to flaunt the rules. The very thing you are saying about most people not bothering to upgrade to the Superdish which will mean they won't be seeing the secondary stations , is what I am sure Charlie wants. THen he still can screw the must carry station rules and get out of paying for a Superdish upgrade for every customer in the affected 36 markets. This is a win /win situation for Charlie. IF , by some miracle Charlie decides to do the right thing and do what the FCC intended by the rules , I will be surprised. His history speaks for itself. He is a maverik and he doesn't like rules and often doesn't follow them. Besides he can easily argue that the Superdish has all the locals on ONE DISH and a lawyer can argue that in court and it looks credible. Even if we all know that is not what the FCC meant by the locals all on one dish.

Problem is, IIRC from the House bill, if Charlie wants to split a market between 110/119 and 105/121 slots, then EVERY LIL customer will have to get a SuperDish--even the existing customers. Letting Dish500 owners pick up just 110/119 LILs will be illegal; after a year, either they switch to SuperDish or they lose LIL altogether. And the House bill contemplates that YOU will have to pay for the new dish, though it's possible in theory that E* will pay for it.

I also think there's another possible solution: Replace all receivers in the affected markets with units that have 8PSK tuning, which could be upgraded to MPEG4/WMP9 compression. (Note that the three models SBC Dish supports are all 8PSK-capable: 311, 522, and 811. Since all SBC Dish customers are DHA and SBC owns the units, perhaps SBC knows something we don't?) It will be FAR easier to swap out receivers than dishes...

 

[RBBrittain]

The locals for 2 of these markets, Roanoke, VA and Little Rock, AR are on CONUS TPs on 110 and will assuredly be moved to spotbeams.

I wouldn't be so quick to say Little Rock will go to spotbeams. Unless E10 has a spotbeam big enough to cover the entire state of Arkansas, then due to unique issues for Little Rock and surrounding markets (the sheer geographic size of the Little Rock DMA, E*'s statewide deal with AETN, and the need to cover the Jonesboro DMA with the Little Rock beam if Jonesboro is ever to get LIL), Little Rock is *NOT* coming off its CONUS TP. In fact, I suspect Roanoke will go 100% wingbird in order to free up channels for Little Rock's wingbirds, as well as Jonesboro's ABC affiliate (its only 100% local channel--it also has two satellites of Little Rock stations that would qualify for must-carry).

 

[rocatman]

I wouldn't be so quick to say Little Rock will go to spotbeams. Unless E10 has a spotbeam big enough to cover the entire state of Arkansas, then due to unique issues for Little Rock and surrounding markets (the sheer geographic size of the Little Rock DMA, E*'s statewide deal with AETN, and the need to cover the Jonesboro DMA with the Little Rock beam if Jonesboro is ever to get LIL), Little Rock is *NOT* coming off its CONUS TP. In fact, I suspect Roanoke will go 100% wingbird in order to free up channels for Little Rock's wingbirds, as well as Jonesboro's ABC affiliate (its only 100% local channel--it also has two satellites of Little Rock stations that would qualify for must-carry).

Check out my latest post on this thread related to spotbeam size:

http://www.dbstalk.com./showthread.php?t=33673

By the way, on your previous post, swapping out receivers will be way more expensive for Dish considering a lot of folks have multiple receivers including DVRs that are much more expensive than the dish setups.

 

[larrystotler]

WRONG answer - what does the spacing have ANYTHING to do with D* "doing it right"??? Actually, E* had MORE CONUS capacity to do it BETTER than D*, but instead built cheaper spotbeam birds than D* did, hence the reason why E* has LESS CONUS spotbeam capacity than D* does.
When the first spotbeams started coming out, D* had only 32 x-ponders at 101, vs E*'s 50, if you count both 119 & 110. (even now if you count the capacity D* has at 110/119, they still only have 46 x-ponders across ALL THREE CONUS slots, compared to E*'s at 119/110) I say this, since E* made the D500 the "standard" issue dish for all markets. If E* had the forthought to have better designed their 2 spotbeam birds at 110 & 119, they could have VERY easily carried ALL locals for EVERY current market at 110/119, plus even had some space left over for some smaller markets, ALL using just a D500. If you have ever seen the spotbeam layouts for both E* & D* fleet of birds, you could easily understand this. Right now, D* is ONLY using 6 x-ponders@101 for spotbeams vs E* using 10 x-ponders (5 on 110/119 each) so again, D* should easily have been able to outdo E* & STILL carry ALL locals on CONUS.

Where are you getting this Conus spotbeam? There is not such beast. Anyway, as I said before, yes, E* could have done things the way you have laid out, but in doing so they would not have been able to get as many locals up as fast as they have. And while E* does have 50 trans, IIRC there are 2 or 3 on 110 that are currently unused or dead(could be wrong). E*10 will have 45 spotbeams and is nearly ready to go up. So D* used a better spotbeam setup and spent more money. They also have a lock on the Sunday Ticket, which is one of their biggest revenue draws. E* doesn't have anything that profitable. It all comes down to making money. That's why these companies are in this game. They could care less about anything else.

Obviously, you must NOT have been installing for E* too long & are missing my point. Back when all of this wing dish f/MC started, E* would NOT EVER, EVER pay the local retailers to install these 2nd dishes as part of bring on a new customer. The new CUSTOMER HAD to make the call back to E* themselves, AFTER the retailer was done with his work. I guarantee you that is one of MAIN problems the broadcasters had with this. If E* had the good sense to pay the retailer to complete ALL of the work at the time of install, it would have at least "looked" like he was following through with 2nd dish installs. Instead, the customer had to basically work to get it THEMSELVES.

Of course NOW that the s#%t started hitting the fan, Charlie had a change of heart & has NOW decided that we local dealers CAN install these things - TOO LITTLE TOO LATE.

That was my entire point. ANd as a local retailer, we still CANNOT install the wing UNLESS it is a Retailer Referral(basically, you are taking the job from the RSP). The RSPs are the ones who are supposed to install the wings, it is in their contract. The retailers are not. Quite frankly, I agree this is the better way since most subs COULD CARE LESS about having the second dish for no real reason. ANd, since E* has made it common to have a second dish, this is helping D* with their 72.5 since people are more used to the concept. Personally, having to retransmit every local station is stupid, but that is what the customers want. And they they bitch and moan that they couold get 2 DMAs through cable and everything else. I'm glad I am not the one trying to figure all this crap out. The merger would have made things better in the long run since all 96 transponders would have given E* the ability to add HD and everything else a lot faster. Having the internationals on a seperate dish was also probably one of E*'s best moves. You are forgetting that they weren't always on the wings, and that they took up space as well out of that 50 trans for a while.

 

[dishrich]

Where are you getting this Conus spotbeam? There is not such beast.

OK, I'll reword it for YOU then - I meant spotbeams on CONUS SLOTS! 101/110/119 are the ONLY CONUS slots for DBS reception in the US. The wing slots are NOT considered CONUS. (I figured YOU of all people understood this)

Anyway, as I said before, yes, E* could have done things the way you have laid out, but in doing so they would not have been able to get as many locals up as fast as they have.

Then, TOO BAD SO SAD - NOW they CAN pay for getting them up SO fast.

And while E* does have 50 trans, IIRC there are 2 or 3 on 110 that are currently unused or dead(could be wrong).

HUH??? I think you are confusing the "2 or 3" that you are talking are the 3 that belong to D*, which E* has NEVER had. The 50 x-ponders (29@110/21@119) I was talking about obviously does NOT included D*'s.

E*10 will have 45 spotbeams and is nearly ready to go up.

Yea; will it be up in time to solve his problem of getting these locals moved to CONUS slots???

So D* used a better spotbeam setup and spent more money.

Right, & E* can NOW PAY for NOT having enough sense to use a better spotbeam setup from the getgo - sorry, but I don't have any Kleenex to spare for cheap Charlie doing it the cheap way. (again)

They also have a lock on the Sunday Ticket, which is one of their biggest revenue draws. E* doesn't have anything that profitable.

More of YOUR apple & orange comparisons - WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH E* THUMBING HIS NOSE AT THE FCC??? (AGAIN)

It all comes down to making money. That's why these companies are in this game. They could care less about anything else.

Right & now E* can end up spending MORE $$$ to correct what he should have done right in the FIRST PLACE - HELLO!!!!

That was my entire point. ANd as a local retailer, we still CANNOT install the wing UNLESS it is a Retailer Referral(basically, you are taking the job from the RSP). The RSPs are the ones who are supposed to install the wings, it is in their contract. The retailers are not.

(assuming that you ARE correct about this, which I don't think you are) THEN CHEAP CHARLIE NEEDS TO CHANGE THE F#$%ING CONTRACT THEN!!! HELLO HELLO!!! He changes OUR contracts every other MONTH; why not THEIR'S? There is NO reason WHATSOEVER that he could NOT allow the local dealers to install these dishes, other than the fact it IS a way for him to "ration" them out to as FEW customers as possible. You can sit there all day & spin it around & it STILL does NOT change these facts!

Quite frankly, I agree this is the better way since most subs COULD CARE LESS about having the second dish for no real reason.

Well, evidently YOU & cheap charlie DON'T matter - it's ALL in what the local broadcasters want. (obviously)

 

[dishrich]

First, I don't know what you mean by CONUS spotbeam capacity. TPs are either CONUS or spotbeam.

OK, OK, for the last time - I MEANT CONUS SLOTS, as in the spotbeams being USED on the 101/110/119 birds, which ARE in CONUS slots. Geeze, talk about quibbling over words.

Dish's next satellite, Echostar-10 (E-10) will have 45 spotbeams on it at 110 compared to the current spotbeam satellite at 110 that only has 15. It is suppose to launch sometime in the latter half of 2005. The single dish for locals legislation that passed the House but not the Senate required compliance in one year after enactment that should give Dish time to get E-10 operational.

So if YOU are SO sure, why IS E* pondering the notion of moving the must-carry's to SD NOW - would seem like THEY are NOT confident of this happening.

 

[rocatman]

So if YOU are SO sure, why IS E* pondering the notion of moving the must-carry's to SD NOW - would seem like THEY are NOT confident of this happening.

I don't know if E* is pondering moving locals from the wings to SD now. I think someone perhaps myself on this forum or on DBSTalk suggested this as a possible use for the additional capacity at 105 when AMC-15 goes operational. I think it was suggested because of the recent single dish for locals legislation that passed only in the House. It still needs to pass in the Senate for it to become law and Dish would have at least a year to comply once the legislation is enacted. I believe it makes little sense both economically and for any long range planning for Dish to do this in the near future unless Dish buys Voom and its spotbeam satellite at 61.5 then all bets are off. Your venom towards Dish and Charlie appears to have blinded you towards doing any real rationale thinking about this issue. Here is a link for other relatively rationale discussion on this topic.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=33673&page=1&pp=25

 

[larrystotler]

dishrip:

E* has 2 or 3 of it's transponders on the 110 that are either dead or not currently being used. I think that # 13 is one of them. I am not sure what the status it. E* also uses more bandwith for s/w updates and other things than D* does. As for the fact that the side slots are not conus, that is why they are used for your "extra" locals. In the DC area, you have your 5 channels on the 61.5. I am sure that from texas west that they are using the 148 for the same type of thing.

 

[dishrich]

I don't know if E* is pondering moving locals from the wings to SD now.

Well, I'm ONLY telling what other E* dealers have heard & have posted on Claude's board. Frankly, I just don't see how, from a practicle standpoint, this IS going to work, but since this IS E*, who knows...

Your venom towards Dish and Charlie appears to have blinded you towards doing any real rationale thinking about this issue.

And YOUR attitude that "Charlie - THE GOD of DBS who walks on water & who's ground you kiss that he walks on", has blinded YOU that he, in fact, cause ALL of these problems on himself by "playing with the law"...

D*, who has followed the must carry law to the letter since day one, DOESN'T have any of these problems with having to do a mad dash to possibly having to comply with a new law. (that was written SPECIFICALLY to correct E*'s mistakes - not ANYONE else's)

EVERY cable co. still has to follow must carry

Why IS it that YOU don't think E* has to follow the SAME law all these other providers do?

Look, I don't think that MC should exist either, but since it IS the law, WHY do you think E* has a right to break it? If E* DOESN'T like MC, then he needs to go about it the proper way & GET THE LAW CHANGED FIRST, instead of breaking it THEN asking for leniency to fix things.

Of course, you know yourself that this IS the way E* has done things since day 1 of LIL - E* was carrying locals BEFORE the actual law even PASSED & in violation of copyright law. You can argue against me all day, but it IS a fact that this DID happen. (but, I'm SURE we don't want to mention this bit of dirty laundry... )

 

[dishrich]

E* also uses more bandwith for s/w updates and other things than D* does.

So, what DOES this have to do with the price of eggs???
And you KNOW this for a fact, because...

 

[rocatman]

dishrip:

E* has 2 or 3 of it's transponders on the 110 that are either dead or not currently being used. I think that # 13 is one of them. I am not sure what the status it. E* also uses more bandwith for s/w updates and other things than D* does. As for the fact that the side slots are not conus, that is why they are used for your "extra" locals. In the DC area, you have your 5 channels on the 61.5. I am sure that from texas west that they are using the 148 for the same type of thing.

Actually none of E* TPs on 110 are dead. TPs 7, 13, 17 and 19 have been dedicated to HD using 8SPK. If you don't have a HD capable receiver, you will get a 0 signal strength on them. TP 19 was left unused after the Olympics and I believe it has gone back to QSPK.