Time to hop in the DeLorean........

[NightRyder]

However, moving the markets around to comply with the one-dish law will trigger requalifications of all distant network subscribers that received a new dish, and all requalifications will be rejected since the new law says you are served if your market's locals are available on your DBS provider.

That's not quite accurate.

House Clears DBS Bill with Two-Dish Ban
By Ted Hearn -- Multichannel News, 10/7/2004 11:23:00 AM


The House bill contained numerous changes in copyright and communications law.

A key provision continues to allow EchoStar and DirecTV to distribute without permission superstations and the ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox stations in New York and Los Angeles to subscribers around the country who reside in so-called white areas -- locations where local network stations with weak signals can’t be picked up with a convention rooftop antenna.

The copyright license for distant network signals is set to expire Dec. 31. The House-passed bill extends the license to Dec. 31, 2009.


NightRyder

 

[Greg Bimson]

It has to do with them changing the law after he was basically approved to do it the way E* did. You can't just go and say, well now we feel that is illegal, so we will fix the law, and it will be retroactive. It doesn't work like that.

Sure it works like that. You've heard of closing tax loopholes? Closing a tax loophole doesn't generally affect what has happened in the past, it forces you to be taxed at a higher rate after the law goes into effect.

Better yet, changing a speed limit on a road from 55 mph to 45 mph doesn't mean that everyone that used to drive on the road can drive 55, but new drivers have to drive at 45.

This new law corrects the loophole that the FCC hasn't closed. Unless it ruled "unconstitutional" by the courts, the law will be upheld. Declaring a law "unconstitutional" is the only way to get a law overturned, unless a new law is written to replace the old law. The SHVERA is the new law which will remove the old language, and put in the one-dish restriction.

That's not quite accurate.

Quote from Multichannel.com news:
A key provision continues to allow EchoStar and DirecTV to distribute without permission superstations and the ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox stations in New York and Los Angeles to subscribers around the country who reside in so-called white areas -- locations where local network stations with weak signals can’t be picked up with a convention rooftop antenna.

This isn't exactly true.

There are a few different scenarios at work here. This will be complicated to explain; you may need a flowchart to follow along.

If you have waivers, receive less than Grade B signal strength from your closest network affiliates, or are "grandfathered", and also subscribe to your locals, when the law goes into effect, you will continue to receive both your distants and your locals. Your subscriber information will be given to your market's local affiliates.

If you have waivers, receive less than Grade B signal strength from your closest network affiliates, or are grandfathered, and you do not subscribe to your locals, you will continue to receive your distant networks. Your subscriber information will be given to your market's local affiliates. If you ever decide you want your local channels, you will lose your distant networks.

Once the new law is passed, any new subscriber that has local channels available to them will not have the option of getting distant networks. The net result is that for both Dish Network and DirecTV, over 92 percent of the nation will no longer have the ability to obtain distant networks once the new law is passed.

Keep in mind that since the old law is still on the books, there is a section dealing with "grandfathering". It is very possible grandfathering status will be lost to all those people that need to change their dish in order to continue to receive local channels. So, in any market where Dish Network must change out dishes to comply with the one-dish per local market rule, any grandfathered distant network customers may lose their distant networks.

 

[NightRyder]

Sure it works like that. You've heard of closing tax loopholes? Closing a tax loophole doesn't generally affect what has happened in the past, it forces you to be taxed at a higher rate after the law goes into effect.

Better yet, changing a speed limit on a road from 55 mph to 45 mph doesn't mean that everyone that used to drive on the road can drive 55, but new drivers have to drive at 45.

This new law corrects the loophole that the FCC hasn't closed. Unless it ruled "unconstitutional" by the courts, the law will be upheld. Declaring a law "unconstitutional" is the only way to get a law overturned, unless a new law is written to replace the old law. The SHVERA is the new law which will remove the old language, and put in the one-dish restriction.This isn't exactly true.

There are a few different scenarios at work here. This will be complicated to explain; you may need a flowchart to follow along.

If you have waivers, receive less than Grade B signal strength from your closest network affiliates, or are "grandfathered", and also subscribe to your locals, when the law goes into effect, you will continue to receive both your distants and your locals. Your subscriber information will be given to your market's local affiliates.

If you have waivers, receive less than Grade B signal strength from your closest network affiliates, or are grandfathered, and you do not subscribe to your locals, you will continue to receive your distant networks. Your subscriber information will be given to your market's local affiliates. If you ever decide you want your local channels, you will lose your distant networks.

Once the new law is passed, any new subscriber that has local channels available to them will not have the option of getting distant networks. The net result is that for both Dish Network and DirecTV, over 92 percent of the nation will no longer have the ability to obtain distant networks once the new law is passed.

Keep in mind that since the old law is still on the books, there is a section dealing with "grandfathering". It is very possible grandfathering status will be lost to all those people that need to change their dish in order to continue to receive local channels. So, in any market where Dish Network must change out dishes to comply with the one-dish per local market rule, any grandfathered distant network customers may lose their distant networks.

Not too hard to follow. Very good explanation, Thank you.

Another downside I see, even if re-qualification is not required, both E* and D* distant network subscribers could not switch carriers without loosing their distant networks. That would be a major disincentive for me and really puts me back to having only 1 acceptable program provider again. Looks like my celebration over the demise of Pegasus was premature.



NightRyder

 

[bcshields]

You see, Dish and Direct need to come together and form a concensus on their goals, and then work together to get Washington into it.

Fact is, that Rupert has a conflict of interest with Direct/Fox, and won't join hands with Charlie to overcome the evil cable pigs.

 

[larrystotler]

Ok, they change it to a 1 dish setup, and all the EXISTING 2 dish setups would be completely grandfathered in since they were already existing BEOFRE the law was changed. The change in the law would hamper NEW installs where there are 2 dishes are needed vs changing out existing subs. And it's a 2 dish ban on local channels, not ALL programming. This is to get E* to quit splitting the locals on 2 sats, not to force everyone to have 1 dish. In this case, E* could put all of your locals on the wings instead of just some. All current 2 dish installs would be grandfathered, but it would be in E*'s best interests to change everyone over than to double carry on 2 sats(which is where the 121 came in, to get the internationals on 1 sat instead of 2 wings). 1 dish will become almost impractible soon, especially since they just added the 83/85/109/157 to their inventory. I said before that now that they have the 157, the could mirror the 110/119 on the 148/157 and add in an FSS location in that area for the west coast and use the 110/119 for the east coast. Sounds like a mess, but it is a practical way to do it, especially if you treat it like 2 companies.

 

[bcshields]

Noone said anything about grandfathering, which would be transponderifically impossible. Dish won't mirror channels just to appease people, that would be way more costly than upgrading their dish.

If they mirror 119/110 it would be on 83/85, where more of the country would be able to see the pair of sats. (I have suspected this for a while) Good way to get previously declined NLOS customers in to boost sub counts.

Internationals on 121, IMHO, is a mistake, better used for locals. Usually int'l customers (50/50) only want their Int'l programming, so a single wing point usually isn't a problem. Hard to fit a superdish on a balcony/apartment.

I also see 83/85 being the new second dish location for a boom of HD channels. You don't want to hear it, but I see it. One combined funky looking FSS Twin LNBF, out to a DP44 to tie in 119/110.

 

[ScottChez]

Here is my prediction for the future. What do I win 3 years from now when I am right.

Charlie will have the new Slim Dish.

It will be square and flat. There will be NO LNBs. It will read from 10 different sats at once from 61 to 121 degrees.

It will cost $99 for the consumer and it will support over 15,000 SD channels (less by then as they will all be HDs).

 

[larrystotler]

Noone said anything about grandfathering, which would be transponderifically impossible. Dish won't mirror channels just to appease people, that would be way more costly than upgrading their dish.

If they mirror 119/110 it would be on 83/85, where more of the country would be able to see the pair of sats. (I have suspected this for a while) Good way to get previously declined NLOS customers in to boost sub counts.

Internationals on 121, IMHO, is a mistake, better used for locals. Usually int'l customers (50/50) only want their Int'l programming, so a single wing point usually isn't a problem. Hard to fit a superdish on a balcony/apartment.

I also see 83/85 being the new second dish location for a boom of HD channels. You don't want to hear it, but I see it. One combined funky looking FSS Twin LNBF, out to a DP44 to tie in 119/110.

Lets see. 10,000 SDs for international versus 1 million for locals(as an example). That's a HUGE cost difference, and I doubt E* is interested in this. Does anyone even listen? They used the 105 for locals since AMC2 was too weak. This is a temporary move to use up existing SD's that they would have had to warehouse, and to actually use what they are paying for at the 105. They will more than likely have the SD HD rollout soon, and all locals will move from the 105, since it has NO Ku band spots. The FCC WANTS the locals on spots so that someone isn't getting the incorrect DMA which would piss off the broadcasters. And, having the 83/85 mirror the 110/119 is not a good idea. Few standard subs will want a 1 meter dish. The 83/85 will probably be for broad band or other services. I see E* trying to branch out and not be just a sat company, especially now that D* is part of Murdoch's empire.

 

[dishrich]

The FCC WANTS the locals on spots so that someone isn't getting the incorrect DMA which would piss off the broadcasters.

Where DO you dream this STUFF up? Show us where the FCC has ever said ANYTHING like this whatsoever. They could care less whether it's spots or CONUS - the "correct" service address in the DBS co. activation system is ALL that matters to make sure the sub gets the "correct" DMA. The spots are used because there is NO other way to get more bandwidth from a fixed amount of x-ponder frequencies.

Also, evidently you STILL must not know how spots work - putting locals on SPOTS does NOT stop people from getting the "incorrect" DMA. I can choose from THREE different spot DMA's (Chicago, Indy, St.Louis just from the D* 101 bird alone) with NO signal problems at all. ALL spots have spillover, sometimes into many DMA's.

 

[larrystotler]

Yes, the spots carry more than 1 DMA, and yes, they cover a larger area. BUT, having the locals on spots will keep someone in LA from have a DC address and getting the DC locals. This was disccused years ago, and the NAB bitched about people being able to do that. It IS a minor issue, but it was an issue. And, yes, Spots allow the most DMAs by reusing transponder space.

I forsee that eventually all locals will end up on spots. With E* 10, they may move E6 or E8 to the 119 to help out with thos spots if that is possible. And since the 110 uses even spots and the 119 uses odd, it could work, but you would drop the number of conus trans yet again. Not exactly the best solution, but possible. Spots make way more sense than having locals on the wings, and will probably happen as new birds are put up to replace the old ones. As for the SDs, since niether has any Ku Band slots, they are better suited for regular programming and not locals, and like I pointed out before, they will probably move the current locals off the 105 eventually. This was a stopgap measure to get some use out of AMC2 anyway since AFAIK, it was not supposed to ever have locals.