Time to hop in the DeLorean........

[BobMurdoch]

D* seems to be applying pressure on several fronts to gain a competitive advantage over Cable and E*. Announcements of massive HD local channel additions, internationals, distant digital HD, etc. Congress is also applying pressure, making it look like the two dish local solution will be banned shortly, necessiating either the shutodown of numerous local markets, or a massive reshuffling requiring additional dishes and switches for countless subscribers.

What do you see Charlie doing to counter this new set of challenges? What technologies are already in the pipeline to expand their bandwidth, and what programming to you see them adding to try and keep up. How likely do you think it is that E* will make a play for V* to help close the capability deficit?

Finally, do you see your prognostications taking place in 1 yr, 2 yrs, or how long?

 

[MikeD-C05]

I see Charlie doing his changes in the next 2 years. Using the Superdish to provide all the locals on "ONE" satellite dish. I don't see him shuffeling any locals other than the side sat lesser viewed locals to the 105 sat . Yes I know this will piss off the FCC and is technically not right but I still see Charlie doing it to thumb his nose at the FCC one more time. I do see either Charlie licensing content from Voom or buying Voom to provide more hd national content with an easy 2nd dish either to 61.5 or mirrored to 148 side satellite. With all the extra bandwith Charlie is renting and buying up on AMC and other slots I see him providing hd locals . I don't know how this will happen but I do see Charlie competing with Directv. OF course I could be wrong and Charlie might just sell out and say the hell with it.

Where 's Madam Cleo when you need her?

 

[John Kotches]

Mike,

I think this is the 2nd time I've seen you write something like this:

I see Charlie doing his changes in the next 2 years. Using the Superdish to provide all the locals on "ONE" satellite dish. I don't see him shuffeling any locals other than the side sat lesser viewed locals to the 105 sat . Yes I know this will piss off the FCC and is technically not right but I still see Charlie doing it to thumb his nose at the FCC one more time.

The FCC ruling says one dish, not one orbital location or one satellite. E* is completely right to follow the letter of the law and IMO I don't see this as thumbing his nose at the FCC.

I don't know for certain, but I believe even DirecTV isn't feeding all the locals for every market from a single orbital location or satellite.

Cheers,

 

[dishrich]

I don't know for certain, but I believe even DirecTV isn't feeding all the locals for every market from a single orbital location or satellite.

Actually, D* has ALWAYS fed every "local" DMA station on the SAME orbital slot. The ONLY exceptions are in some DMA's that get secondary stations from ANOTHER DMA included in the secondary's DMA package.

For example, the Dayton DMA package has ALL of it's stations on the 119 slot, BUT Dayton subs ALSO receive UPN-25 out of Cincinnati, which obviously is in the Cincy DMA, which comes from the 101 slot. But since it is NOT actually a Dayton DMA station, it's compliant.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Mike,

I think this is the 2nd time I've seen you write something like this:



The FCC ruling says one dish, not one orbital location or one satellite. E* is completely right to follow the letter of the law and IMO I don't see this as thumbing his nose at the FCC.

I don't know for certain, but I believe even DirecTV isn't feeding all the locals for every market from a single orbital location or satellite.

Cheers,

John this is the second time I post this response. I don't care what the FCC says about the one dish. I am saying what I see Charlie doing . He loves to thumb his nose at the FCC. Charlie is known for challenging the very limits of the law. IF it doesn't happen and Charlie gives in on this then great but I am just saying what I see Charlie Ergan doing . So IF you don't mind , I really don't need you to correct me anylonger on this issue.

 

[John Kotches]

Mike:

Remind me not to sign up for legal advice from you

The ruling says one satellite dish. E* is working on delivering it from one dish. From what I learned in school, complying fully with the letter of the law in a fashion that has the least impact on the companies bottom line is good business strategy.

Cheers,

 

[John Kotches]

Rich,

Thanks for the info!

Regards,

 

[Greg Bimson]

Mike, I don't think you understand what John is saying.

If the locals are moved off of the side slots to a SuperDish slot, Dish Network is required to give the customer the new equipment needed to see all local channels.

So, if Mr. Ergen does indeed place all side slot locals to the SuperDish, Dish Network will then need to upgrade everyone in those markets to a SuperDish, or drop their locals service.

 

[GaryPen]

Rich - DirecTV now has several cities whose locals are fed from the 72.5 slot.

Mike - I'm not sure you understand the "one dish local' rule. There is nothing about needing only one dish for all your programming. The locals do not need be on the same dish as the main, international, or HD channels. It is perfectly acceptable within this law to have all of your locals on a 2nd dish (or 3rd, or 4th, etc), as long as ALL of your locals are together on the same dish.

It will be in Dish's best interest to shuffle the locals in such a way as to have to do the minimum amount of add'l dish installs, and certainly the least amount of Superdish upgrades, as they are far more expensive than a Dish300 with switch.

From a customer standpoint, I still think they should do it so that urban subs only need one dish for all programming, since it is difficult enough to mount one dish in an apartment.

 

[Neutron]

GaryPen is right on Directv. They are following the FCC rule by placing all locals for some markets on one dish. It just happens to be the one at 72.5.

 

[dishrich]

Rich - DirecTV now has several cities whose locals are fed from the 72.5 slot.

Well yea, I know that - if you re-read my post, I was trying to say that D* has NEVER taken a set of locals from ANY DMA & broken it up across multiple slots. In other words, EVERY local in ANY given DMA is broadcast from the same slot. (ALL Springfield locals@72.5, ALL NY locals at 101, etc.)

The whole point of this is, D* has ALWAYS complied with both the spirit AND the letter of the law by doing it the way they have. The law NEVER said you could NOT have locals come on a separate dish, ONLY that ALL locals in a given market must come on the same dish.

 

[TNGTony]

Just a point of order here. The FCC has no ruling requiring all locals be on one Dish. At least not yet.

The SHVREA bills (one from the house already passed and waiting for the Joint Committee and one from the Senate waiting for a vote) both have provisions directing the FCC to require all locals from any given market to be made available from one dish.

When I read both bills, I concluded that the wording of the bills would allow Dish to spread out locals from one market all over the sky legally. Right now, there are several markets where a Dish 500 is required to receive all the locals. The new PROPOSED law... i.e. Bill (it hasn't even been passed by Congress yet and it needs to be signed by the President before it becomes law)

Here are the cities where a Dish 500 is absolutely required to get locals right now.
Johnstown, PA has 4 locals at 119° and one at 110°.
Ft. Smith, AR has 5 locals at 105° and one at 110°
Harlingen / Brownsville-McAllen has 4 locals at 119° and 3 at 110°
Denver has 6 locals at 110° and one at 119° (Plus 6 at 148° that would have to be moved)
Chicago has 4 locals at 110° another 4 at 119° (Plus 6 at 61.5° that would have to be moved)
Boston has 7 locals at 119° and 1 at 110° (Plus 5 at 61.5° that would have to be moved)
Colorado Springs has 5 locals at 110° and one at 119°
Yakima has 5 locals at 110° and 2 at 119°

See ya
Tony

 

[bcshields]

Philly has channels on 110 and 61.5

 

[ats7627]

Where 's Madam Cleo when you need her?

She's been waiting at home for her SuperDish upgrade over last couple of months

 

[MikeD-C05]

Mike:

Remind me not to sign up for legal advice from you

The ruling says one satellite dish. E* is working on delivering it from one dish. From what I learned in school, complying fully with the letter of the law in a fashion that has the least impact on the companies bottom line is good business strategy.

Cheers,

There is also something called the " spirit of the law", which I feel Charlie likes to follow . This is what gets him in trouble with the FCC and the government. And if history tells us anything , a leopard doesn't change it's spots. So unless you really have a time machine out there to settle this debate , I think all this is on both our parts is nothing more than pure speculation.

When and if Charlie does do what you suggest then you can give me all the raspberries you want. OF course if I am right............

 

[MikeD-C05]

Just a point of order here. The FCC has no ruling requiring all locals be on one Dish. At least not yet.

The SHVREA bills (one from the house already passed and waiting for the Joint Committee and one from the Senate waiting for a vote) both have provisions directing the FCC to require all locals from any given market to be made available from one dish.

When I read both bills, I concluded that the wording of the bills would allow Dish to spread out locals from one market all over the sky legally. Right now, there are several markets where a Dish 500 is required to receive all the locals. The new PROPOSED law... i.e. Bill (it hasn't even been passed by Congress yet and it needs to be signed by the President before it becomes law)

Here are the cities where a Dish 500 is absolutely required to get locals right now.
Johnstown, PA has 4 locals at 119° and one at 110°.
Ft. Smith, AR has 5 locals at 105° and one at 110°
Harlingen / Brownsville-McAllen has 4 locals at 119° and 3 at 110°
Denver has 6 locals at 110° and one at 119° (Plus 6 at 148° that would have to be moved)
Chicago has 4 locals at 110° another 4 at 119° (Plus 6 at 61.5° that would have to be moved)
Boston has 7 locals at 119° and 1 at 110° (Plus 5 at 61.5° that would have to be moved)
Colorado Springs has 5 locals at 110° and one at 119°
Yakima has 5 locals at 110° and 2 at 119°

See ya
Tony

Thank you ,this is what I have been saying . I understand what the FCC wants with the locals being on one Dish. I think Charlie could spread them over three slots like 110,119 and the 105 other wise known as the Superdish and they would still be following the "spirit of the law ." Dish has always flaunted the rules about locals from the very start of local into local. Thus the many lawsuits still being fought over distant locals.

 

[larrystotler]

Well yea, I know that - if you re-read my post, I was trying to say that D* has NEVER taken a set of locals from ANY DMA & broken it up across multiple slots. In other words, EVERY local in ANY given DMA is broadcast from the same slot. (ALL Springfield locals@72.5, ALL NY locals at 101, etc.)

The whole point of this is, D* has ALWAYS complied with both the spirit AND the letter of the law by doing it the way they have. The law NEVER said you could NOT have locals come on a separate dish, ONLY that ALL locals in a given market must come on the same dish.

While this may be true, you have to realize that D* only had the 101 to start with. And they only got the 119, 22-32, and the 110, 28/30/32 through their buyout of P*. E* started with the 119, 1-21. They then added the 61.5 & 148. Then, through another deal, they managed to get the 110, 1-27, 29, 31. Look at the locations. D* are all 3 in the same area. E* had to buy slots all over the place since the 72.5, 82, 91, 129, & 139 slots are controlled by Canada. Now, E* owns the 157, and V* has the 166 & 177. The original idea was that the 61.5/101/110/119 would serve the east side, and the 148/157/166/177 would serve the west side. No one realized how quickly the slots would fill up and that there would be a need for more space. I bet Charlie had no idea over 10 years ago that he would need to use a SuperDish, but he took what he could get when all the slots got filled.

Anyway, in order to serve the most markets the fastest, E* put the 4 main networks on the 500, and then stuck the others on a wing. This gave them the capacity to add locals faster, since most folks are only concerned with the 4 main(well, now 6) locals anyway. They were blessed for this, and now they are being burned at the stake for it. Yes, you have to ask for the 2nd dish, but E* has never turned down anyone for it. The only problem really ends up being no line of sight for the wing. Should E* have required the second dish install? Well, sure, but this might have lost them customers over channels that most people could care less about. I bet that if you took a poll, most subs would say no to the second dish even if it was mandatory. Why should I HAVE to have a second dish, when I wouldn't tune my OTA antenna to get something I don't want to begin with. The 1 local I do want isn't available on E* yet, and D* has it. But that does not make me want to switch.

 

[TuxCoder]

Interesting and well put, Larry.

 

[TNGTony]

Thank you ,this is what I have been saying . I understand what the FCC wants with the locals being on one Dish.

Time out... A few points:

1) The FCC does want all the locals on one DISH...DISH does not equal one satellite location.

2) The new bill (SHVIERA) has very specific wording that makes it very clear that it is okay to use more than one satellite location for locals as long as one dish is required. Congress has determined that one DISH for locals is okay. ("reception device and necessary equipment" I believe the bills say.

See ya
Tony

 

[Claude Greiner]

If DISH Network was requiring 2 Dishes for every customer with locals then this would be a non issue, but we know dam well the reason why the other locals are on the side slots is because they are not very important.