Summary of 811 problems?
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Ok- 811 installed this morning and looks fantastic. No dark picture using DVI.
Initial viewing of an HD channel looked great- but not "WOW"- definitely much better than SD. I then went into setup and looked at the output setting and sure enough- it was set at 720p. I changed to 1080i and went back to the same program- and... WOW. MUCH MUCH better. Bottom line is that there is something funky going on with the 720p output from the 811- my guess is a 1080i -> 480p -> 720p conversion going on.
The only drawback- for me at least- is that when my TV does the conversion of 1080i to its native 720p, the guide has a *very* slight vertical jitter. I mean *very very* slight. Most wouldnt notice. But to me its noticeable. Programming is stable and looks nothing short of stellar though- and i will leave mine set on 1080i... as ABC in dallas is the only ABC nationwide broadcasting at 1080i. Other than ESPN i have no reason to change it that frequently.
ONE QUESTION-
This OTA "mapping" ive seen on posts- I assume this is the renaming of OTA channels so they display as something other than "Local Digital" in the guide? Is this true? When I go through "Add Digital" in the OTA setup, it wont take me through the name editing screen when I save the added channel as the manual shows. What gives? Cant figure this out.
Initial viewing of an HD channel looked great- but not "WOW"- definitely much better than SD. I then went into setup and looked at the output setting and sure enough- it was set at 720p. I changed to 1080i and went back to the same program- and... WOW. MUCH MUCH better. Bottom line is that there is something funky going on with the 720p output from the 811- my guess is a 1080i -> 480p -> 720p conversion going on.
The only drawback- for me at least- is that when my TV does the conversion of 1080i to its native 720p, the guide has a *very* slight vertical jitter. I mean *very very* slight. Most wouldnt notice. But to me its noticeable. Programming is stable and looks nothing short of stellar though- and i will leave mine set on 1080i... as ABC in dallas is the only ABC nationwide broadcasting at 1080i. Other than ESPN i have no reason to change it that frequently.
ONE QUESTION-
This OTA "mapping" ive seen on posts- I assume this is the renaming of OTA channels so they display as something other than "Local Digital" in the guide? Is this true? When I go through "Add Digital" in the OTA setup, it wont take me through the name editing screen when I save the added channel as the manual shows. What gives? Cant figure this out.
The mapping is this; Say you want to add channel 3's digital channel to the DTV menu. You add their DTV frequency, say 45. If they are broadcasting the proper PSIP information, the channel will automatically appear as 003-01 in the 811. This is what's referred to a mapping.
willy said:
Unfortunately there is no OTA mapping for digital channels, only analog - so no guide data at this time. Maybe in the future, local stations will start broadcasting the guide data and E* will incorporate that into their guide.
As for the vertical jitter, I've reported on that earlier. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with the problem.
Gpflepsen, can you add these to the top of the thread for completeness? Thanks!
1- Guide is only 16x9 when 480p is selected in setup. Can others verify this also?
2- 720p output is clearly not HD. This may have been intended on #18 in the list- but needs clarification. The 720p selection in setup is NOT HD. Plenty of other have noted this in this thread. Even if you have a native 720p set, you need to set the 811 to output 1080i and let your set scale to 720p to get an HD quality picture.
3- Jittery guide/menus in 1080i output.
1- Guide is only 16x9 when 480p is selected in setup. Can others verify this also?
2- 720p output is clearly not HD. This may have been intended on #18 in the list- but needs clarification. The 720p selection in setup is NOT HD. Plenty of other have noted this in this thread. Even if you have a native 720p set, you need to set the 811 to output 1080i and let your set scale to 720p to get an HD quality picture.
3- Jittery guide/menus in 1080i output.
I strongly disagree regarding the 720P setup for HD with an 811. Both 720P and 1080i work fine with my Sammy HLN507W DLP, which is 720P native and has a more sophisticated scaler than the 811.
Depending on the HD source, I set the 811 so that it doesn't do the scaling for my DLP TV. I keep it on 1080i for all current programing except ABC-HD and ESPN-HD, which are currently the only 720P sources. This ensures that the 1080i arrives at my Sammy as 1080i and the Sammy scales it to its 720P.
With the ESPN-HD 720P output, I change the 811 to 720P and no scaling is done in the system. Worked marvelously for ESPN-HD football games in December. In fact the Broncos-Colts week 16 game is the best HD broadcast, PQ-wise, that I have seen yet.
When I first got my 811 I had it setup as 720P and didn't have any problem with PQ on HD stations showing filmed presentations. Only when a live broadcast from a 1080i source was on did HD PQ not look up to par with the 720P setup. From that point forward, I have followed the protocol described above and my HD is as good or better than any I've seen anywhere.
The bottom line is that I don't think there is anything wrong with the 811's 720P HD setup selection. It just has limited application for most users. Those w/ 1080i native HD TV sets should probably never use it unless their TV has a crappy scaler and they want to watch HD on ABC or ESPN. Those with 720P native sets should only use it for 720P sources or again unless the 811's scaler is better than the one in their TV.
Depending on the HD source, I set the 811 so that it doesn't do the scaling for my DLP TV. I keep it on 1080i for all current programing except ABC-HD and ESPN-HD, which are currently the only 720P sources. This ensures that the 1080i arrives at my Sammy as 1080i and the Sammy scales it to its 720P.
With the ESPN-HD 720P output, I change the 811 to 720P and no scaling is done in the system. Worked marvelously for ESPN-HD football games in December. In fact the Broncos-Colts week 16 game is the best HD broadcast, PQ-wise, that I have seen yet.
When I first got my 811 I had it setup as 720P and didn't have any problem with PQ on HD stations showing filmed presentations. Only when a live broadcast from a 1080i source was on did HD PQ not look up to par with the 720P setup. From that point forward, I have followed the protocol described above and my HD is as good or better than any I've seen anywhere.
The bottom line is that I don't think there is anything wrong with the 811's 720P HD setup selection. It just has limited application for most users. Those w/ 1080i native HD TV sets should probably never use it unless their TV has a crappy scaler and they want to watch HD on ABC or ESPN. Those with 720P native sets should only use it for 720P sources or again unless the 811's scaler is better than the one in their TV.
Carl-
I agree mostly- almost *all* of what Im watching is 1080i broadcast except for Fox and ESPN. ABC is 1080i in dallas.
What I am stating is not only that the 811 scaler is not only horrible- but its so horrible that its "not HD" anymore. Taking a 1080i broadcast and flipping between 720p/1080i on the 6-1-9 menu will show more than just a moderate difference. Its clearly an SD-HD difference, as many others have noted.
So I guess what you are strongly disagreeing with is that you dont think the 811's 720p scale is "that bad" some clearly think its not even HD anymore.. try it on Discovery HD or something--:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=22193&highlight=espn
I agree mostly- almost *all* of what Im watching is 1080i broadcast except for Fox and ESPN. ABC is 1080i in dallas.
What I am stating is not only that the 811 scaler is not only horrible- but its so horrible that its "not HD" anymore. Taking a 1080i broadcast and flipping between 720p/1080i on the 6-1-9 menu will show more than just a moderate difference. Its clearly an SD-HD difference, as many others have noted.
So I guess what you are strongly disagreeing with is that you dont think the 811's 720p scale is "that bad" some clearly think its not even HD anymore.. try it on Discovery HD or something--:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=22193&highlight=espn
willy said:
Yes, I can verify this also.
I noticed when I am watching a station and press the "BROWSE" button and channel up/down to look what else is going on, then see something maybe interesting and press "INFO", the information stays on the screen for maybe 1-3 seconds. Not long enough to actually read everything. Then, only two buttons work on the remote after you do that. "ENTER & CANCEL".
The number buttons don't work, channel up/down don't either. Anybody else experience this?
Try it, watch something then, BROWSE, then INFO. It goes away right away. Then the system seems like it is froze up. Hit CANCEL to get out of it.
I agree with your observation as well. I have the same set (Sammy HLN507W) as above, but 1080i content viewed 720p on the DVI from the 811 is bad for me.. The 811 scaler seems MUCH worse than it should be...willy said:
I get very good results on DVI or component at 1080i, letting the Sammy scale it to 720p ..
Close Caption problem
I have the 811 for two weeks now. I turn on the close caption option on component output all the tiime. But the CC stayed on most of the time for a day or two only and disappeared. Hold on power button for 20 seconds won't do any good. But when I unplug the power, it will come back. I called Tech support, they said never heard it. Would any body test this on your 811 ? Should this be on the bug list ? Thanks.
I have the 811 for two weeks now. I turn on the close caption option on component output all the tiime. But the CC stayed on most of the time for a day or two only and disappeared. Hold on power button for 20 seconds won't do any good. But when I unplug the power, it will come back. I called Tech support, they said never heard it. Would any body test this on your 811 ? Should this be on the bug list ? Thanks.
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