Suddenly my locals have changed--no notice, no option

[JM42]

Piecing together some quick google data, Auglaize has bounced between DMAs. This 2012- 2013 map places it in Dayton, but it looks like it was shifted back to Lima in 2013-14 according to this dispute.

Part of the problem is the zip spans four counties, Allen is Lima DMA, Auglaize shifts, Logan and Shelby are Dayton DMA.

Zip alone is not enough, does dish have the correct county?

It's worth a call to the station(s) to confirm the proper DMA. If Dish has it wrong then escalate it with the station(s) and Dish. The station(s) will want to make sure they are getting their retrans fees and may help make your case.

 

[Hall]

That "dispute" is interesting. WHIO, the CBS affiliate for the Dayton market, basically got mad that they lost Auglaize County. They claim they have been the highest rated CBS station for the market for years, etc, etc. Lima did not have a CBS affiliate until just a few years ago. I'm from Lima - we watched, via cable, either Dayton's CBS or Columbus'.

 

[TNGTony]

The evidence for auglaize county jumping back and forth is in the annual TV maps published by Nielsen. They are available for sale. The market lines change a little every year, especially out west in western Kansas and Nebraska.

I created the TV market maps in Dishuser.org. I haven't updated them since 2008. They are all fairly close still, but need more time than I have to fix.

The latest TV Market maps I have are from 2013 so I am out of date. It shows Auglaize in the Dayton market. I'd like to see what happened with the 2014/2015 maps.

 

[bobvick]

You say they can change but where is your evidence that they change?

If you are that interested and want to take the time to look go to www.americanradiohistory.com.
There they have issues of the Broadcasting Yearbook going back into the '40s. The older listings and maps up into the '80s use something called an ADI (area of dominant influence) these were created by Arbitron and were used prior to Nielsen DMAs. I think the later books maybe in the '80s and up have both ADIs and DMAs. For instance, the market I live in Birmingham, has changed by adding a county here or loosing one here over the years. I know there have been a lot of changes in other markets over 60+ years as well.

 

[randyoh]

I had the same problem but in reverse. I had Dayton locals (in HD) for years on the Western arc. One day I came home and had Lima locals (in SD). I called Dish and the rep called me a liar and said there was no way I ever had Dayton locals. So then they put Lima locals in HD in the Eastern Arc, so I called and got moved to the Eastern Arc (had to move from a ground mounted dish to a roof mounted dish). My nephew is an installer and called me a few weeks ago and said I can get Dayton locals again but I have to switch back to the Western Arc.

 

[trido]

Iceberg I am in Evansville what am I missing I am on EA ?
Is it the sub as I get no sub ch?
we do get this as it is our CW net 7-01 WTVW TSID 0x0445,
thanks
Trido

no that list is current since it comes from the uplink reports



Now looking at a market like Evansville which is a split (HD on EA, SD on WA) they dont list the EA channel numbers, but they do list the Big 4 (those are bolded) so those folks are kinda screwed if they are EA only
7-01 WTVW TSID 0x0445, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7368)
12-01 WNIN1 TSID 0x0447, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 14409)
12-02 WNIN TSID 0x0447, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 7371)
14-01 WFIE TSID 0x0449, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7367)
14-02 WFIE2 TSID 0x0449, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14408)
14-03 WFIE3 TSID 0x0449, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 15319)
25-01 WEHT TSID 0x044B, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7365)
31-01 WKOH TSID 0x04F7, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7372)
31-02 WKOH2 TSID 0x04F7, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14539)
31-03 WKOH3 TSID 0x04F7, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14411)
31-05 WKOH5 TSID 0x04F7, Subchannel 05 (DISH Channel 14541)
31-06 WKOH6 TSID 0x04F7, Subchannel 06 (DISH Channel 14542)
44-01 WEVV TSID 0x044D, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7366)
44-02 WEVVD TSID 0x044D, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 5276/7370)

But in the case of Lima, those are the only stations with guide info.

I see some markets where DIsh doesn't carry the BIg4 guide info even when the stations are in market (not imported)
Victoria, TX NBC
Bangor, ME FOX
Bluefield/Beckley WV they ONLY carry the CW guide info
Cheyenne, WY NBC
Dothan, AL NBC
Fargo, ND CBS (this was a case of the CBS getting moved to the subchannel of NBC due to ownership...but dish carries the station on satellite)
Greenwood, MS NBC
Helena, MT ABC, CBS, FOX
Jackson, TN NBC & CBS

There are more but there is a quick short list of areas where Dish carries the local on satellite but doesnt remap it for OTA

 

[Hall]

Dish carries Lima's locals in HD now so even satellite-delivered channels get NO guide data according to that ?

correct.

Channels provided by Dish, by satellite, do get guide data for Lima. I think what is confusing about that list is the arrangement of the Lima "big 4" channels. Believe it or not, one company provides all four networks.

NBC > 8.1
FOX > 8.2
ABC > 35.1
CBS > 35.2

The WBGU listing with sub-channels is PBS and WLWT is a religious channel. Unlike many areas, Lima doesn't have the typical sub-channels that many markets have (MyTV, Bounce, weather, etc) piggy-backing off of the big 4 networks.

 

[Nyth]

This is exactly why I do so much antenna work for Dish customers in these margin areas. I have a whole list of communities that get the 'wrong' locals. This is a good marketing tool for me against the cable companies which follow different rules about which locals they provide. It just reinforces my assertion that these rules are pro-business and not pro-consumer. It is all about advertising revenues. Reading that dispute link is just more proof.

 

[Hall]

Cable offers both locals (CBS), so the consumer doesn't get "hurt" much - it is all about business. In this situation, I presume the Lima CBS station gets no "credit" for people who watch their station in Wapakoneta since they are officially in Dayton's market.

 

[Mr Tony]

Channels provided by Dish, by satellite, do get guide data for Lima. I think what is confusing about that list is the arrangement of the Lima "big 4" channels. Believe it or not, one company provides all four networks.

I am fully aware of it. It is a unique situation there

Yes they do get guide info for the Lima stations if you get them via satellite. The issue here is now the OP doesn't due to the "ping pong" game as TNGTony mentions

The issue is that Dish is not carrying any guide info for Lima stations if you are picking them up OTA except for the couple stations I posted above. Dish normally carries the OTA guide info for the stations they carry on satellite. They just remap the guide info from the satellite feed to the OTA. Thats why when there is a dispute folks lose the OTA guide info too. The issue in this case is the OP wants to view/possibly set timers for the Lima stations she gets OTA but can't (unless its a manual timer) because Dish doesnt map the guide info for OTA.

 

[Mr Tony]

This is a good marketing tool for me against the cable companies which follow different rules about which locals they provide.

cable has rules from the 60's on what they can carry
satellite has different rules.

In these "marginal" markets is where cable has the advantage

 

[Mr Tony]

Just checking DIrectv site and they show the county in question as Lima DMA

 

[Mr Tony]

Iceberg I am in Evansville what am I missing I am on EA ?
Is it the sub as I get no sub ch?
we do get this as it is our CW net 7-01 WTVW TSID 0x0445,
thanks
Trido

What I'm saying there is the guide info for OTA only seems to be on western arc. So if you have an antenna set up for locals too you wont get guide info on the OTA stations

Which by the way you might want to try as it looks like Dish pulled your CBS & FOX yesterday amid dispute
http://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/threads/1-07-2015-21-45-uplink-report-6-changes.345850/

 

[Hall]

Just checking DIrectv site and they show the county in question as Lima DMA

Sounds like they're pretty much sticking to the county lines in this case. My daughter lives in Auglaize County, but in a section that extends much further south. When I input her zip code at Directv, it then needs the county and has (3) to pick from (Auglaize, Mercer, and Shelby). For her location, it still says Lima, which I think is unusual, but again, it's just going by county. The other two counties make more sense that they are considered part of Dayton's TV market (sorta).

Dish doesn't ask what county - they will give her Dayton's locals. Makes sense based on everything said in reference to Dish too. Directv hasn't updated their system if the market's map truly changed.

On cable, she gets CBS from Lima, Dayton, and Columbus. ABC and FOX is both Lima and Dayton. NBC is only Lima.

 

[JPatootie]

I had the same problem but in reverse. I had Dayton locals (in HD) for years on the Western arc. One day I came home and had Lima locals (in SD). I called Dish and the rep called me a liar and said there was no way I ever had Dayton locals. So then they put Lima locals in HD in the Eastern Arc, so I called and got moved to the Eastern Arc (had to move from a ground mounted dish to a roof mounted dish). My nephew is an installer and called me a few weeks ago and said I can get Dayton locals again but I have to switch back to the Western Arc.

Last summer, we got the same story on the western/eastern arc and ground to roof mounted dish because we were getting Lima HD. Were you charged for the switch and did you have to re-up your contract?

 

[JPatootie]

Lima's locals, which are finally in HD, require a different satellite dish setup. Your current dish points SSW (Lima's non-HD channels are still there, by the way). Even if you "move" (that means tell Dish that your service address has changed) to Lima or probably Cridersville would work, it's not that simple - you would need a NEW dish installed (one that points SE, towards Indian Lake more).

By the way, Dish doesn't decide what locals you get - the TV industry itself does (I think - the "DMA" ?). Anyone looking at a map can see that Wapak (notice I didn't say Wapakoneta) is so much closer to Lima that it is to Dayton).

Lastly, isn't Neil from New Knoxville ?

No, for some reason, the airport at New Knoxville is named NA--maybe because the one he learned to fly at on Wapak-Cridersville Rd no longer exists.

 

[Mr Tony]

Last summer, we got the same story on the western/eastern arc and ground to roof mounted dish because we were getting Lima HD. Were you charged for the switch and did you have to re-up your contract?

I **THINK** (now this may have changed..hopefully someone can correct me) there shouldn't be any charge nor contract extension. It is not your fault Dish decided to put HD locals on a satellite that doesnt face the same way as your existing one

On the plus side, Dayton HD is on 129W which if you already have HD programming you're already set with HD locals

 

[Hall]

My understanding is the same as yours -- if Dish initiates the change(s) that impact the customer, they will "fix" it at no charge and with no contract extension required.

 

[randyoh]

Last summer, we got the same story on the western/eastern arc and ground to roof mounted dish because we were getting Lima HD. Were you charged for the switch and did you have to re-up your contract?

Didn't have to pay or renew.