Still learning - suggestions please.

[Jim S.]

I guess as an amateur radio operator I'm a little surprised not to find the sats ID'ing in some way that a meter could lock onto. Something like on all sats, TP1 at a set freq or even in between some transmission there would be an ID that could easily be referenced in a lookup on the meter. So as the dish is moved from sat to sat, the meter would be able to display which sat it was picking up.

I'm sure there's a beacon on the satellite broadcasting its ID. That doesn't mean that it's digital, and it doesn't mean that it's in the Ku band or C band. It could be in the L band, or S band, or whatever.

I've seen a few receivers (all old ones, for some reason) that could sometimes ID a satellite. There's probably a field in the DVB tables for it, which however means that it's up to whomever is uplinking to a given transponder to set it correctly. Lots of them probably don't, just like they don't set the time field correctly (setting it to local time instead of UTC, or letting it float) or set the network information table correctly (it should point to the other transponders owned by the uplinker, but half of them don't fill it out at all and the other half seem to be using secondhand Dish Network encoders and not wiping them...)

Another confusing thing is that my meter is picking up Galaxy 19 but it says it's on 95W. I know that's just a relative number but the other settings are more like C band freqs. I'll post a screen shot of it tonight when I get home from work. It's really strange to me.

You've probably figured this out by now, but in case not, the signal coming from the LNB is neither C-band nor Ku-band, it's L-band, and the receiver displays what the satellite frequency is based on what you've told it the local oscillator frequency is. If you've told it you're searching for C-band transponders and you have a Ku-band LNB connected, it'll still find some transponders (depending on whether C-band is as wide as Ku-band) but tell you the wrong frequencies.

 

[xf021209]

It's good to have it on the ground as it's easier to adjust while standing on the ground.


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Agreed! Going up and down that ladder was getting really old! I thought that I'd lock it in place up there for the six or so weeks before heading to Colorado with it - stupid me.

Todd

 

[xf021209]

I'm sure there's a beacon on the satellite broadcasting its ID. That doesn't mean that it's digital, and it doesn't mean that it's in the Ku band or C band. It could be in the L band, or S band, or whatever.

I've seen a few receivers (all old ones, for some reason) that could sometimes ID a satellite. There's probably a field in the DVB tables for it, which however means that it's up to whomever is uplinking to a given transponder to set it correctly. Lots of them probably don't, just like they don't set the time field correctly (setting it to local time instead of UTC, or letting it float) or set the network information table correctly (it should point to the other transponders owned by the uplinker, but half of them don't fill it out at all and the other half seem to be using secondhand Dish Network encoders and not wiping them...)



You've probably figured this out by now, but in case not, the signal coming from the LNB is neither C-band nor Ku-band, it's L-band, and the receiver displays what the satellite frequency is based on what you've told it the local oscillator frequency is. If you've told it you're searching for C-band transponders and you have a Ku-band LNB connected, it'll still find some transponders (depending on whether C-band is as wide as Ku-band) but tell you the wrong frequencies.

Ah, sounds almost like the quality of work out of most IT help desks!

I had an idea about the ID's, much like on amateur radio the ID's are sent in Morse Code. The last time I did code work was something like 20 years ago and though their are audio circuits that will decode into text, they aren't real reliable. I was wondering if my dish was pointed at a C-band sat if the meter would still react...thanks for the info on that. Wonderful fun. I'm about to confirm what I did and post to see what else I've got to learn (ie...screwed up).

Thanks,

Todd

 

[. Raine]

I ordered a TrackerLight meter
View attachment 96646


Todd

The display on that meter looks exactly like the one on my First Strike FS1 meter except the back light is blue. When I first got the FS1 I hated it and thought it was hard to use, but now that I've gotten used to using it, it's awesome to use.

 

[xf021209]

The display on that meter looks exactly like the one on my First Strike FS1 meter except the back light is blue. When I first got the FS1 I hated it and thought it was hard to use, but now that I've gotten used to using it, it's awesome to use.

Yes, it's actually the knock off of the FS1 now that the FS1 is no longer made. I think the new one is the FS1 Extended Version or something like that. The company I ordered from had the FS1 on their website. They called me the next day and said it's no longer in production, but they have the Tracker Light on sale for slightly less than the FS1 originally cost. I just wish there was more to it but I guess I'd need to get a high dollar meter for more information.

One list I have says set the meter to F.11991/SR.22000/LO.10600/H/ and 22KHz on or off. I get sporadic readings.



I play with the frequency and bring it up to 11998~20000 and bam, solid signal and quality.



So I don't understand why when I set it here that it goes nuts. Especially since if I tune down to 11966 or go up to 12028 which are the two frequencies in the April list that I have a loss of signal and pretty much all loss of quality.

11966 H 22000 Duna World
12028 H 22000 Al Mayadeen TV

The spreadsheet also shows the following:

12053/V/22000 JN1 TV Jewish News One English
Yet once the blind scan is done, JN1 comes up as 12123/V/22003



12177 V 23000 JCTV JCTV English
JCTV comes up as 12247/V/23002



I'm glad I'm receiving the channels, which is great, but I'm certainly still setting some configuration wrong it seems.

Todd

 

[Titanium]

Could you post a photo should the install menu for 97w?

Could you post a photo of the LNBF label?

I believe that the receiver's LO frequency is not matching the LNBF's LO frequency. This is likely a combination of the LO menu setting and a faulty LNBF that was not properly tuned at the factory.

If the LNBF was not properly tuned at the factory the meter will not be able to lock transponders on the correct frequencies.

For example: if you set the LO frequency to 10770, both the meter and receiver will likely show signal quality on the preprogrammed transponders and scan channels on the correct frequencies.


Brian Gohl
Titanium Satellite

 

[Nov-01]

Following with interest...!

off topic-Todd, if you were to make a visit to a local testing session, you could instantly become a "General" class ticket holder!
http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?topic=74302.0

 

[xf021209]

Could you post a photo should the install menu for 97w?

Could you post a photo of the LNBF label?

I believe that the receiver's LO frequency is not matching the LNBF's LO frequency. This is likely a combination of the LO menu setting and a faulty LNBF that was not properly tuned at the factory.

If the LNBF was not properly tuned at the factory the meter will not be able to lock transponders on the correct frequencies.

For example: if you set the LO frequency to 10770, both the meter and receiver will likely show signal quality on the preprogrammed transponders and scan channels on the correct frequencies.


Brian Gohl
Titanium Satellite

I'll post that information tonight Brian. The LNB is new but maybe as you point out it was not properly tuned. I have a Hughesnet dish which I started this project with and plan to purchase another LNB for use with it. It'll be interesting to see if there is a difference between the two.

Thanks, Todd

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[. Raine]

I think that Brian is probably right, that the problem is the Lo setting or a defective LNB. When you post the picture of the LNB's label, then well know for sure what the Lo should be.

I have a X2 Mini kicking around here somewhere, I'll try to find it and maybe I can help you with the menu settings if you need it. If I remember right, some of the menu settings in the X2 Mini weren't the easiest to understand.

On your meter, you could try putting 10750 for the Lo instead of 10600 and see if that makes the frequencies correct. I would think 10600 would be right, especially for a Strong LNB, but it could be 10750.

Just went back thru and read the previous posts and saw that you'd posted that the box for the LNB said universal, so the Lo should be 10600. maybe the LNB is defective.

 

[xf021209]

Sorry Brian, I didn't get to it last night. Here's the picture of the Strong LNB box.



On a previous post 77TA posted that 9750/10600 is correct for this LNB. A Raine agreed and changing to those settings got me a picture and channels so that appears to be correct. However as he also posted, that LNB maybe bad or at least off freq. which isn't so bad - at least I'm getting the channels even though the TP information doesn't jive. I'll give the 10750 a try and see if that makes a difference. I didn't have time to play around last night (other home issues of more importance going on) nor this morning before work. I also found one other thing that I didn't realize is going on until late last night. Yesterday morning I turned on the X2 Mini and my TV, switched to radio and listened while getting ready for work, shut if all off and went to work. Last night I turned everything back on while doing some other tasks, no issues. Shut it all off and got some dinner, watched a little TV...etc. Called it a night, turned on the X2 Mini and TV to listen to some radio getting ready for bed and "BAD SIGNAL" popped up on the TV screen. Uh, what? I put my meter on and had S80/Q80, 12.5db, LOCKED, the works - so the dish is still pointing correctly. Connecting back to the X2 Mini I did a blind scan - got nothing. Deleted all channels, blind scan - still nothing. Checked the SAT settings and TP settings, both were good. Did a factory reset and then reconfigured the settings just as they were before. Blind scan - nothing. Hum, ok fine, unplug the power cord, wait, plug the power cord back in. Blind scan - everything came back. Well, for a $25.00 sat receiver I can't complain but now that I know about this issue I wonder how many times I did scans, got nothing, when really the sat receiver was just screwed up? I ordered my TrackerLight meter from http://SatPro.tv and they were great about communication, price, and shipping. Even going so far as to telephone me about the change from the FS1 meter to the TrackerLight - not just an email, though they did that too. I'm thinking it may be time to get a good HD receiver. SatPro.tv only carries one (Manhattan RS-1933) for $125.00. Anyone have any experience with this receiver? I'm now kicking myself for tossing (yes threw away) my older Pansat and Conexant FTA receivers. Though neither was HD maybe it's time to go that route since both my TV's are HD.

Todd

 

[Titanium]

Well the box does confirm that it is supposed to be a Universal type.

Did the channels blind scan with the same transponder frequencies as before (I.E. 12177=12247)?

If the receiver allows the LO frequency to be manually inputted, enter 10770. This is a work around to fix an off-frequency LNBF.

Any chance that the LNBF seller would replace?


Brian Gohl
Titanium Satellite

 

[xf021209]

Well the box does confirm that it is supposed to be a Universal type.

Did the channels blind scan with the same transponder frequencies as before (I.E. 12177=12247)?

If the receiver allows the LO frequency to be manually inputted, enter 10770. This is a work around to fix an off-frequency LNBF.

Any chance that the LNBF seller would replace?


Brian Gohl
Titanium Satellite

I'm not really sure about the scan with the same transponder freqs. I'll have to reset and give that a shot.

Yes I can edit both the sat and tp manually. I'll set it to 10770 and see what happens.

Doubt the seller would replace, and since it's a mail order it'll most likely cost more to ship it back or nearly as much. Cost was $9.00 - sometimes you get what you pay for. If it's just an offset issue than I can deal with that. I could easily order another LNB (different make) and that would confirm. Besides I need to order one to place on my Hughesnet dish anyway. Any recommendations?

Thanks for all the help too - this is been a lot of enjoyment with spurts of frustration, but everyone's help here makes the frustration levels pretty low.

Todd

 

[xf021209]

Ok, according to the April update for Galaxy 19, JCTV should be 12117/V/23000. I setup my LNB as Single, 10600, 22KHz on then JCTV shows up as 12247/V/23002. The LNB freq. selection is stepped and the next step up is 10750. When I set it there and blind scan JCTV comes in at 12397/V/23003. This seems as pointed out that the LNB was not properly tuned and is off frequency. A sure fire way to verify is to buy another LNB which I most likely will place on order tomorrow.

Todd

 

[Titanium]

Typo??? JCTV is on transponder frequency 12177.

As this LNBF does not work with correct LO and 22KHz On with both the meter and the receiver, I would suggest that something is very wacky with that LNBF! As you are in the buying mode today, you may want to consider a standard type LNBF (LO 10750) instead of a Universal type LO 9750/10600). You will also likely have better performance with a PLL (phase lock loop) such as the PLL-1KS or SL1 PLL.

 

[xf021209]

Typo??? JCTV is on transponder frequency 12177.

As this LNBF does not work with correct LO and 22KHz On with both the meter and the receiver, I would suggest that something is very wacky with that LNBF! As you are in the buying mode today, you may want to consider a standard type LNBF (LO 10750) instead of a Universal type LO 9750/10600). You will also likely have better performance with a PLL (phase lock loop) such as the PLL-1KS or SL1 PLL.

Nope - right here it shows on line 250 - 12177 - http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=96631&d=1396751287 and the same on Lyngsat - 140206: Juce TV started on Galaxy 19: 12177 V

I went for the SL1-PLL. Knowing how well radio's work with PLL holding a stable frequency, I went that route. Plus it wasn't that much more expensive and will most likely save me from more headaches. It'll be in sometime next week, so until then I'll just use the current one to play around with. At least I do get TV and radio.

Thanks,

Todd

 

[xf021209]

SL1 PLL LNB installed tonight - bam! Working like a champ. Tons of channels and on freq! Buying another for my other dish.

Todd

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[richyrich]

Ah, sounds almost like the quality of work out of most IT help desks!

I had an idea about the ID's, much like on amateur radio the ID's are sent in Morse Code. The last time I did code work was something like 20 years ago and though their are audio circuits that will decode into text, they aren't real reliable. I was wondering if my dish was pointed at a C-band sat if the meter would still react...thanks for the info on that. Wonderful fun. I'm about to confirm what I did and post to see what else I've got to learn (ie...screwed up).

Thanks,

Todd

It is an Am radio today, but it has been put on a Doctors prescription and the cure was to put it on steroids! It really is called ddr3 for a reason! using 2-dim tries a screen; and axtually shows the hole in comparison to 3-dim and 4-dim technolgies. Mathmativs sends to the itemized digital product. If they used math; it will turn into smoke, it is the easy button! The dish moves to the target, using only a line, which does not curve! The item curves to the target only using a line! Where it lands is manmade flow! Radar is the use this principle also! Target is now acquired! Acquired target lock! Second by second! Every milli-second! Detected movement - 88 mph; re-acquiring target path! Vector 1234 curve priority next second req. time till cliff; find send receive; acquired!

With today's technology, one would think that the satellite ID; a signal with singlarity properties; could be used. It is set, and is a hardwire; that is it never changes. dit; dit; dah; dah; dah; all day and night. Some engineer wired it; and there it is! Unlike the time on a TP that a broadcaster pays for by the minute; they don't set the time on their broadcasts either; making feeds unreliable in one part of the info's struggle to always be true! Motorola first did the work to use Sat ID info for positioning; they just don't have it available non-commercially (they find moving dishes are a problem!!!). But if it can be used, is always there, why can't a receiver use it. IT CAN! AND IT has been for some time!

Actually, the ID is flow down technology; and when tri-angulated -> looky there

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="https://maps.google.com/maps/msa=0&amp;msid=&amp;gl=us&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;t=p&amp;ll=44.960652,-121.300171&amp;spn=0.467803,1.214618&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small>View <a href="https://maps.google.com/maps/

msa=0&amp;msid=&amp;gl=us&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;t=p&amp;ll=44.960652,-121.300171&amp;spn=0.467803,1.214618&amp;source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">Driving directions to Triangulation Peak</a> in a larger map</small>

with two motors; goes dead onto a satellite speaking it's position. IF you use such in a today's receiver (software) however you learn how to do it; may be called "ingress" of somebody else's technology! Where that goes, then, will not be my problem; i will stick to scanning!

But a satellite positioner does calculate exactly these positions; it is called, simply, USALS! Universal Satellite Aquisition Location Service (signal) !!!!!!!

 

[Elkview]

I was about to order micro HD kit but wondering from what I am reading. Is it always this hard to setup or is there one that works for someone not familiar with al the numbers and settings? I would appreciate any advise.

 

[FaT Air]

The numbers for satellite freq and the lnb settings are pretty well covered in the FAQ section, specifically LNB LO Frequency - 101
Once the simple math is comprehended, it's a "piece 'o cake"
To see if you can 'get' a particular satellite, there's two websites: dishpointer.com and satbeams.com

 

[richyrich]

I was about to order micro HD kit but wondering from what I am reading. Is it always this hard to setup or is there one that works for someone not familiar with al the numbers and settings? I would appreciate any advise.

In the beginning of FTA; these settings were all a satellite dish has that is needed for "a satellite receiver" to perform "picture" duties. Today, with complexity and conventions other than "basic" located at the dish; all the manufacturers of Satellite Equipment want "their easy" button to be pressed. You, as a "newbie" have just pressed it!
"Settings" and "numbers" are normally already set-up; according to the "satellite dish" you have bought, installed, aimed, and received with; the signals you want. Each receiver depends solely on this, and only this, to show a picture. No matter what you have in the settings of any FTA receiver; it will only bring in, or let you watch; channels the satellite dish is "tuned" to. How you set-up your satellite dish, therefore, is the only thing "the receiver settings" can do; or will do for you. You aim the satellite dish, the receiver does what it always does; show you what you have done! If the satellite dish is tuned to the satellite with the channels you wanted to get (because there are 50+ satellites you can receive channels from); you will see those channels AFTER THE RECEIVER SCANS THEM INTO MEMORY! No matter what settings you have; the receiver knows how to show them and will; IF YOU CAN SCAN THEM INTO THE RECEIVERS MEMORY!

These selections in the receiver of choice's menu; operating system; on-screen display; etc., BLIND SCAN; POWER SCAN; QUICK LOOK; etc.; after following the on screen instructions using the remote and the buttons it tells you to press; scan the satellite dish "of choice" CA. ABSOLUTELY INTO MEMORY!

It is important the dish be aimed at any of the satellites in space (one or more) and that is who we all watch fta channels from! They all Broadcast channels to satellite dishes!

The microHD DVB-S2 receiver is very powerful when it comes to "settings"; and can be regarded today as one of the most advanced to date. That being said, "settings" are why I like it so much, as it allows me to watch channels other receiver's miss. DVB-S2 signals, in general, are harder to find today, than DVB-S signals were in the past; and the "extra powers" The microHD has makes it really good at the performance at hand you will be using it for. Not many more will allow the direct entry of "numbers" it now requires to allow some of the channels it can show to come in. IT BLIND SCANS FTA CHANNELS most impeccably INTO MEMORY MAGICALLY; ENTRY OF NUMBERS NOT REQUIRED!
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