STB privacy

[jsmith9728]

My understanding is that digital cable boxes report your viewing habits (can't post links yet, pretty easy to Google news reports but can't find any detailed info). I would really like some knowledgeable insights on this, if there is anyone out there that works in the industry or would otherwise be in the know. Any comments on my conclusion that for CableCard v1 setups without a phone connection this would be impossible? I would also really like to know about satellite STBs in this regard. Thanks in advance for any info. Yes, I'm one of those privacy nuts .

 

[lumpkin666]

Any system that has bidirectional communication has the capability of tracking your viewing habits. Our company distributes programming over Fiber to The Home using STB's in the hope to "tune" your channels. And yes, our backend tracks viewing habits - although it doesn't know the difference between when you're actually viewing and when the box is just on (however we do some assumptions based on time, activity, etc).

When we get the raw data from your box, it's automatically anonymized and the original data is dumped. Our system lets us know the viewing habits of STB's, but the link between the STB and the subscriber is scrubbed before end users of the data can see it. We don't even get the opportunity to link this data to your account so that we can see what channels you are subbed to, or how many tv's you have. We just know that there's a STB out there somewhere that watches "Sanford and Son" and "Green Acres" reruns religiously

That said, there's nothing stopping a company from not scrubbing the data (except for privacy laws) and linking those viewing habits to your account - then marketing things directly to you based on your viewing habits. However, we had to go through some intense training, and legal mumbojumbo to tell us that this is strictly forbidden.

 

[Hall]

I'm guessing you presume that since a v1 CC is only one-way, it can't "report back" ? That's half right... It can't report back but it knows what you asked for originally and can log that. Then when you ask for a new channel, it can presume that you watched channel "X" for some period of time.

In the end, do the cable companies collect this ? Maybe... Do they do anything with it (today) ? Maybe not... Ultimately can you do anything about it ? Absolutely not. Put up an antenna and use a set-top. That's "safe".

 

[stogie5150]

That is the reason I will never have any STB hooked to a phone line or a ethernet connection. That was one of the straws that broke the camel's back that made me cancel D*. I don't care if there's 6000 HD channels if I just hook up my internet, it ain't gonna happen. :down

 

[stone phillips420]

yet your cpu is hooked to ethernet, wierd

 

[Van]

Yep, that little intel processor in your computer thats quietly crunching 1's and 0's has an id tag associated with it.

 

[stogie5150]

Absolutely. But I can firewall my computer. I cannot firewall a HR20 so it only receives.

 

[Hall]

Yep, that little intel processor in your computer thats quietly crunching 1's and 0's has an id tag associated with it.

That can be blocked or disabled.

 

[stevenl]

I'm guessing you presume that since a v1 CC is only one-way, it can't "report back" ? That's half right... It can't report back but it knows what you asked for originally and can log that. Then when you ask for a new channel, it can presume that you watched channel "X" for some period of time.

In the end, do the cable companies collect this ? Maybe... Do they do anything with it (today) ? Maybe not... Ultimately can you do anything about it ? Absolutely not. Put up an antenna and use a set-top. That's "safe".

Unless your usinv SDV (Switch-Digital Video) The cable company with the "v1" CC will not be able to find out what your tuning to. With Switch-Digital howerver and the new tru2way cable cards, its pretty obvious they will know which channels your tuning to because you have to tell the system what channel to send.

 

[Hall]

I presume that even a v1 CC was more or less similar to a cable set-top box in that it "authorizes" each channel you tune to. No ? You're implying that even with a CC, all channels are "wide open" ? I know that with an analog system, all channels are available and the cableco doesn't know which of them you've tuned to. As soon as you added a digital aspect to the loop, they would have the ability to know.

 

[stevenl]

Well a CC is one way. So no information gets sent back to the Cable Company. The card itself receives data from the cable company to tell it how to receive channels. IE: The channel map, and encryption codes. So with a CC (non2way v1) The cable company never gets data back from the card, so it will not know which channel you tune to. The card does not talk back to the cable co and say "give me channel 3" Channel 3 is already being sent in fact every channel is already being sent to every customer (except with Switch-Digital systems) the card only tells the TV which Freq the channel is on, and what the encryption code is.

With a digital box it is the exact same way, however they are 2way capable so they can be programmed to send information back to the cable co. But by default they do not. They simply are "tuners" with "built in cable card". The software on the box has to be programmed to gather the information and send it back to the cable co.

A cable card has no such programming, as its only one-way anyway, so even with the programming it could not talk back to the cable company to tell it anything.

Just like analog Digital cable just "sends out" every channel (except in Switch-Digital Systems) so unless the cable company is purposely set up the boxes to tell it what people are watching, they have no way to know what you are tuned to..

With Switched Digital however, the channel is only sent when you ask for it. So in that case, they will be able to know who and how many are watching what channel at a given time. Without any special software on your box.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Not entirely true Steven. A one way box can still phone home and report simple things like PPV purchases, polls and other simple "impulse" reports.

Of course those return feeds were never meant to download lots of data of who is watching what and when. Think of it like an old 150 baud modem, it sends what it needs to but is not fast enough to do most of the common stuff today.

Your cable card enabled TV's and Tivos do not have this technology to talk back and thus why the need for new technology (Tru Two Way) that wil give the bandwidth needed to that your box can order VOD and be able to pause rewind etc.

 

[stevenl]

Not entirely true Steven. A one way box can still phone home and report simple things like PPV purchases, polls and other simple "impulse" reports.

Of course those return feeds were never meant to download lots of data of who is watching what and when. Think of it like an old 150 baud modem, it sends what it needs to but is not fast enough to do most of the common stuff today.

Your cable card enabled TV's and Tivos do not have this technology to talk back and thus why the need for new technology (Tru Two Way) that wil give the bandwidth needed to that your box can order VOD and be able to pause rewind etc.

if the box can "phone home" it is no longer one-way then is it?

And of course he was talking about a Cable Card not a box Which you seem to agree it can not talk back.

and tru2way is not about "giving bandwidth" Its about making your TV or tivo, compatible with the controllers at the hubs/headends so they can communicate with each other in the same language.

 

[Van]

So what exactly is the fear that people have about who knows what they watch? Short of watching polish midget porn whats the big deal?

 

[stogie5150]

So what exactly is the fear that people have about who knows what they watch? Short of watching polish midget porn whats the big deal?

If they know WHAT you watch they can develop ways to limit HOW you watch it. Maybe add a commercial here and there, based on your prefrences of course. Oh, we can SELL that info too, and you don't see a dime for it either. And don't give me the bull about keeping my rates low, you'll charge as much as you can, as is your right.

 

[stevenl]

They already are toying with "interactive" ads. Based on the household. Ads targeted directly to say people in the "rich" area. And some ads directly targeted to those in the "urban" areas. You want hear much talk about it though as its more so a hush hush type thing for now.