Someone please wake-up littlebill He is dreaming! No way! They may bring back some or all of the Voom channels, but not by removing the "Mainstream" HD channels that Dish needs to stay competitive with Direct TV.
Statement from Dish Network on VOOM Takedown
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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Someone please wake-up littlebill He is dreaming! No way! They may bring back some or all of the Voom channels, but not by removing the "Mainstream" HD channels that Dish needs to stay competitive with Direct TV.
It's my understanding that E* already owns a 20% interest in VOOM. If true, you would think E* should have a desire to keep VOOM from going bust.
I don't know how things are going at E* but it seems they may have underestimated the popularity of VOOM.
What was their reason for removing VOOM? Oh yes, they referred to VOOM as little watched or not popular. Well, I'll wager that with over 200 channels on Dish, the average sub probably watches less than a few dozen channels with any regularity.
Dish and Cablevision (CVC) via Rainbow Media (RM) are partners in VOOM (Dish 20%). It is not like the channels will be dumpped cheap, CVC/RM would probably stop production on them. CVC and RM are not going to go under by any stretch of the imagination because of VOOM. Dish and CVC entered into the agreement expecting to be able to market these channels to a bunch of other providers, and providers desparate for HD content would snap them up. This has not happened. If it had happened they would have the money and budgets to produce 15 channels packed with content.
The question is can these channels ever make sense business wise. Right now Dish says no and CVC says yes as long as Dish continues to pay. If Dish thought it was a hot idea, nothing stops Dish from developing new HD channels. Even if CVC were to give its interest in VOOM to Dish, Dish would probably discontinue most of VOOM.
There will probably be a compromise somewhere in the middle, with fewer channels and Dish paying less, or a many year court battle which will kill VOOM.
Bingo! Ekilgus just made two very excellent points.
"E* may have underestimated the popularity of VOOM."
How true. With the Internet, most people don't complain when they are enjoying something or something they purchased is working just fine. You typically only hear from the ones who don't like a service or the one's who are having issues or difficulties with something they purchased because their trying to get answers. That's why you are seeing the explosion of support for VOOM because everyone who enjoyed it had no reason to come in here and post anything, in particular complaints, about the service prior to losing it all. Now all those supporters (whom appeared to be non existent) and whom were quietly enjoying VOOM are justifiably pissed at losing the service and are now very vocal. I'm one of them. I registered only after all this came down.
I had no reason to come in here and post about VOOM because I had no problems with it and was enjoying it. Until now. I was annoyed that Monsters HD was repeating a few movies over and over back in late 2007 but I was only annoyed because I saw the potential in this excellent, one of a kind, channel. Thankfully, they righted that ship. But I can't enjoy it now.
"I'll wager that with over 200 channels on Dish, the average sub probably watches less than a few dozen channels with any regularity."
I agree. Most people probably only have a group of channels they watch on any consistent basis. For me those channels are: Monsters HD, SNY HD, TV Land, Boomerang, Gameplay HD, Science Channel, Nick at Nite, Kung Fu HD, Film Fest HD and Sci Fi (for Dr. Who only). That's it!!! Out of the 250 channels I have, SD & HD, I watch only these 10 on a regular basis (Monsters HD being the one I watch the most). Yet, I like knowing those other channels are there for when the mood strikes.
Dish knows very well what channels people watch. They do not underestimate. Most receivers are hooked up to the phone line, especially big spender units like the 622/722 which charge you $5/month if you do not hook them up. Dish gets reports showing how much people watch each channel. It is just silly to say Dish has a secret underground organization of VOOM watchers that they do not know about.
I think you are incorrect in this. They both entered because it was benefitial to both. Dish saw an opportunity to lure HDTV owners looking for more content because Voom had gone out business. Also DirecTv did not have the capacity at that time or any cable provider to add 10-15 channels to their line up. On the other hand, CVC saw this as an opportunity to continue developing their channels which they did. Both benefited from the decision of this agreement.
I am not sure I agree with you on this one. Programming is very big these days and you only have to look at other owner of programming. They would love to continue adding channels. Programming is a big business that if properly funded and run can make money.
I agree. I hope it is not a little too late for either company.
they could also be talking crap to us. Didn't they say at one of the CC that Dish HOme was the most popular channel that they had. You can lie with numbers and statistics. It is done all the time especially when you are the one doing the analysis and there is no one there to check your reports.
Earlier this week I called dish because my 622's HDD died (a couple of weeks ago actually) and while trying the various options the Tech said that my unit had "phoned home" and had a problem... it is on my network, no phone line... watching RMA'd unit now...
Come on Mike. I never said "secret underground organization of VOOM watchers." Please. It is obvious that there are quite a bit of VOOM supporters. You're hearing from us now. We had no reason to post before. Why does this irritate you so? Must people post digs like "secret underground organization". Come on now. It just makes the poster look silly and immature.
I am not saying Dish publicly reports anything accurately. Internally they know the real story one way or another. I am sure they worked out some formula where they take the number of regular VOOM watchers, what % are in long term contracts, what % can drop right away, looked at what other channels they watch, average revenue generated from said subs, etc. They then decided that VOOM does not make the money for Dish that they would like given the capacity 15 channels takes up.
Publically I do not expect them to deviate from the line of no one watches the channels so we dropped them for channels people want to watch. Unless of course they come to an agreement with VOOM, then suddenly there will be some channels that people do watch and have compelling content that Dish will have room to carry.
Mike,
Internally we do not know what is the real story. We all think we know but we really do not. This is not the first time that Dish has thought that a channel was worthless to its subscribers (remember lifetime).
Internally we do not know what is the real story. We all think we know but we really do not. This is not the first time that Dish has thought that a channel was worthless to its subscribers (remember lifetime).
Sean, were you in charge of another webpage/site years ago?? I recognize your name from somewhere?
Charlie only wants to save money and increase channel numbers. To get him to 100hd channels he would add WFN2,3,4...- He actually has the b@lls to claim they have 81 hd channels now. This guy really is pathetic.
I know.
They lost an entire satellite and had to wipe out the Voom channels to give the illusion of progress until they can get another one up.
Well I have been with Scott since he moved from the other site. Had the opportunity to work in the Voom DBS days and here I am still. Haven't posted much in the Dish Network forum since I was quite satisfied until they took away most of movie channels. Now I have fewer HD movie channels than 4 days ago.
Just going by what Charlie said in the meeting last year. He specifically said they know what channels you watch, when you watch them, and even how many commercial skip forward you do (I assume they are counting skip forward and assuming they are on commercials). Dish has to do this, this is how they get an edge on negotiations. Again I expect them to downplay dropping any channel, why would they say we are dropping this channel and will loose a bunch of subs, but we do not care?
It is all a percentage game. All big companies do this, WalMart for example has reported that when a hurricane threatens people buy Budweiser and Strawberry Pop tarts not toilet tissue and bottled water... Dish has to know exactly what each channel means to its subscribers and how much it makes for Dish, do watchers of channel X order more PPV? Perhaps better to move channel X to a lower tier to maximize more PPVs.
It is not my intent to say VOOM is not important, or meaningful to a lot of people. I am just pointing out that Dish has made careful calculations as to what dropping VOOM means to its revenue, sub numbers and most importantly new sub numbers. I would not have put it past them last year realizing VOOM was a drag on their numbers and exploring any means of getting out of their contract and working the audit angle to get out without having to pay damages.
I think there is more than a pure number issue here. More variables than we think there are. I am not saying that your last comment is wrong. It could be very well part of it. But there are others as well.
No, I agree, I think we don't know nearly as much as we think we do. If E* monitors this forum and starts laughing when they see posts speculating on why Charlie jettisoned the VOOM channels then they are justified in doing so, IMO.
A GUESS at one aspect of the situation would be that the AMC-14 failure changed the cost of carrying a channel (or suite of channels). With more capacity VOOM would not preclude E* from adding mainstream national HD, albeit only down-the-road; without it they would be severely hamstrung.
A GUESS at one aspect of the situation would be that the AMC-14 failure changed the cost of carrying a channel (or suite of channels). With more capacity VOOM would not preclude E* from adding mainstream national HD, albeit only down-the-road; without it they would be severely hamstrung.
if Dish monitors this forum, perhaps they'll get a kick out of this response i got when i sent an email complaint to Dish:
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Effective immediately the VOOM HD line-up can no longer be viewed by our customers. DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We plan to use this opportunity to introduce exciting new HD channels offering a breadth and depth of programming that better complements our already robust HD offerings.
DISH Network understands it may feel like DISH is removing your favorite programming, but check out the comparable HD programming that is available!
VOOM Channel
Alternative Programming
Channel #
Monsters HD
Chiller (Only available in SD)
199
Rave HD
MHD
9469
Rush HD
Universal HD, HD Net
9427, 9422
Specific HD Movies
HD Net Movies, Universal HD, and Premiums in HD
9423, 9427
Gotta love how the FIRST channel on the list is not even HD. i don't think i've ever seen a company of this size that is so incredibly disorganized. blows my mind.
Dear Customer,
Thank you for your e-mail. Effective immediately the VOOM HD line-up can no longer be viewed by our customers. DISH Network continues to be the leader in providing the best movies, sports and entertainment in High Definition. In order to provide you with top quality entertainment, DISH Network continually evaluates and at times, makes changes to our channel line-up. We plan to use this opportunity to introduce exciting new HD channels offering a breadth and depth of programming that better complements our already robust HD offerings.
DISH Network understands it may feel like DISH is removing your favorite programming, but check out the comparable HD programming that is available!
VOOM Channel
Alternative Programming
Channel #
Monsters HD
Chiller (Only available in SD)
199
Rave HD
MHD
9469
Rush HD
Universal HD, HD Net
9427, 9422
Specific HD Movies
HD Net Movies, Universal HD, and Premiums in HD
9423, 9427
Gotta love how the FIRST channel on the list is not even HD. i don't think i've ever seen a company of this size that is so incredibly disorganized. blows my mind.
