Sometimes I wonder - A Scott Comentary

[rad]

Rad,

I understand your frustrations, but don't you think your giving up more programming than its worth to switch?
Comcast here has just the 4 networks, HBO & SHO in HD here. Giving up ESPN, HDnets, DiscoveryHD & NBA on 9425. While I agree the 811 has some bugs, I'd give Dish a little time to fix them before jumping ship. Maybe even look at D* before Comcast. Just an idea. Hope you've thought all this thru.

Sparkman, thanks for the input. In fact out Comcast system won't have HD available until later this month, still doing the rebuild. When it's done I'll have 2,5,7,11,32, ESPN-HD, HBO-HD, Showtime-HD InHD1 and InHD2. Yea, I'll loose Discovery HD, and the HD Nets, but I'd rather loose them and gain StarzHD which Comcast has announced an agreement to carry vs, E* who's CEO says that they carry all the HD content that's out there. I may do a switch to D* once I see what their plans are once the new satellite goes up but at least with the move to Comcast I don't have to buy anything or make a 12 or 24 month commitment.

 

[Sparkman]

Rad,

I wonder if they'll be adding ESPN-HD, INHD 1 & 2
& 11 here. According to the website, not even listed. Amazing how long it takes them to convert sytems that run right into each other onto the same programming!

 

[xgrep]

I understand your frustrations, but don't you think your giving up more programming than its worth to switch?

I wonder what info you based that comment on.

I switched to Comcast 5 months ago for HD. I get 6 HD channels for $5/mo (three locals, HBO, SHO, and ESPN). That's a helluva a deal, and I even matched all the rest of the E* programming I had before for a similar package price (lower total price, in fact, when I count the internet service switch). And there's more HD available that I don't subscribe to: INHD and INHD2. 8 total channels, same as E*, but for less per month and no box to buy.

I'm interested in the 811 if I can get it for $199 or less without an AT50 commitment. I'd consider the $10/mo HD Pak, but the deal is already interesting for PPV-HD plus some OTA - as long as I don't have to commit to AT50!

But the Comcast HD offer is hands down the winner in value. E* is not even close - at least in my circumstances. And when Comcast comes out with their HD DVR (the Motorola box is ready - they're doing the software now), there will be an even bigger gap between E* and Comcast, and still no way for E* to deliver HD locals.

x

 

[Sparkman]

I understand your frustrations, but don't you think your giving up more programming than its worth to switch?

I wonder what info you based that comment on.

I switched to Comcast 5 months ago for HD. I get 6 HD channels for $5/mo (three locals, HBO, SHO, and ESPN). That's a helluva a deal, and I even matched all the rest of the E* programming I had before for a similar package price (lower total price, in fact, when I count the internet service switch). And there's more HD available that I don't subscribe to: INHD and INHD2. 8 total channels, same as E*, but for less per month and no box to buy.

I'm interested in the 811 if I can get it for $199 or less without an AT50 commitment. I'd consider the $10/mo HD Pak, but the deal is already interesting for PPV-HD plus some OTA.

But the Comcast HD offer is hands down the winner in value. E* is not even close - at least in my circumstances. And when Comcast comes out with their HD DVR (the Motorola box is ready - they're doing the software now), there will be an even bigger gap between E* and Comcast, and still no way for E* to deliver HD locals.

x

Comcast where I'm at doesn't have ESPN-HD, and all of the locals & more can be picked up ota rather easily. INHD not available here nor is Discovery HD or NBA-TV hD when it's on. So, since WE do watch those additional channels, I wouldn't give them up.

 

[BarryO]

Charlie and E* do have big problem that's preoccupying them - last quarter's earnings report, which, if you remember, was not so hot.

When the report came out, Charlie told Wall Street that a big reason for the lousy results was/is the late HD products, that are missing the prime fall and Xmas selling season. Once this was labelled as the excuse, it gives E* an "out" for any delays in HDTV. They already told the investment community it was going to happen, and it is the reason for alot of their troubles. In fact, given what they said, they can hardly deliver things promptly: that would lead The Street to expect better numbers from them. Maybe the only reason the 811 was released is that 6000 production was stopped.

There's some good for HD in this, though. Only two years ago, the conventional wisdom was that HDTV was DOA: no content, TV's way too expensive, harldy anyone buying or watching. Now HD is no longer quite the niche market it was, so much so that E* can use it as an excuse for missing revenue targets. Who would have thought 2 years ago that E* would move HD channels from the wings to the core 110/119 slots? Only mass-market channels are put on the core. Comcast is running radio ads extolling the virtues of their HD offering, and even Fox has gone HD. TV prices have come way down, and the surge in popularity of widescreen plasmas and LCD's is having a synergistic effect with HD demand.

I think what we're going through with E*, while disappointing, will be a temporary bump in the road.

 

[markdl]

As for new software coming 'soon' let's have the 721 folks tell us how long they were waiting for software that was coming soon.

That is very true, but on the other side of the coin, you could ask the 6000 folks who only had to wait 19 days for the remote code fix when dish broke it with a software release.

 

[METFAN757]

Last night's chat was just another example of Dish strategy.
New equipment offer, no new programming. (real enticing isn't it? :? )
Besides, they delay equipment to work out the bugs, but they still seem to creep in.
When ever a question is asked about programming, we get the stock answer. "We are working really hard in negotiations, but we don't want to raise everyone's rates for a channel that only a few customers want."
I hate to tell them, but the average customer doesn't know channels exist until they are offered and there are no letters sent showing availability or cost of any new or potential channels not already on the Dish line-up.
To say demand for channels (HD or SD) is how they decide what to put on the sats is hogwash and an insult to our intelligence. Reality TV has it launched and who requested that channel?
I've got too much money invested in equipment to switch companies now. Although, Direct is looking better everyday. Just afraid that the grass seems greener on the other side.
Sorry about ranting. Just tired of the same old song and dance. Reminds me of a snake oil salesman at a carnival.

 

[Chris Freeland]

Since E* is moving HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, PPV-HD and Events-HD to 110, I doubt their is any room left on 110 for more HD, 148/157 has plenty of space even with locals and International with 35 TP's, however E* only owns 11 TP's and leases 6 more for a total of 17 on 61.5, and since the SuperDish is no longer an option for HD, more room needs to be found on 61.5. Once the HD channels currently on 61.5 that are moving to 110 are turned off that will open enough space for 4 more, but E* will likely mirror these for a few months to give the few HD subs with outdated hardware one last chance to upgrade.

Chris, I really don't see E* adding any new HD channels on 61.5 or 148. Why would they go to the trouble of getting folks to make sure they can get HD on 110 the putting HD content back up on the wings? I would think it would make sense, if they were going to do that, to leave what's on the wings there and add the new programming to 110. That way the folks that have HD now don't need to do anything (since as ones that have a Dish 300 pointing to the wings only) and if you want new HD then you need to make sure you can see 110.

Where do you think E* will add new HD in the future if they do not place them on 61.5 and 148. It appears that both 105 and 121 will likely be filled with locals by the time that the new AMC satellite goes up next year at 105. I can almost guarantee you that HD will not be at 110 only, E* will eventually add more HD channels and 110 is near capacity now especially with those 4 HD channels moving to 110 on the 19th, unless Charlie pulls a suprise deal out of his hat or his engineers make a startling engineering breakthrough , future HD channel additions will have to go to the wings.

 

[Guest]

Only if the 811 didn't suck as bad as it does and we didn't get locked out of any new HD programming due to capacity issues on 110.

My 811 does not suck. - it does exactly what I bought for - it gives me pretty pictures, and it does that very well.

It is Rad's unfair blanket criticism of the 811 that sucks. Rad, if you have a problem with your 811, send it back. If you have a problem with Dish, go somewhere else. But don't come out with your unsubstantiated wide-brush hyper-critical crap.

My new 811 HD receiver works fine. I would recommend the 811 to anyone who wants a reasonable-cost entre' into HD, or a 2nd HD unit. Don't be hesitant because of Rad's unfair and inaccurate comments.

I agree. I really like my 811. There are a couple of things I would change if I could, but nothing major and some of those things may be changed soon with software updates. One thing I haven't heard many people say is that for an entry level product it is a really sharp, high end looking piece of equipment. Overall, I can't complain at all especially since as a new subscriber I got the 811 free with a one year contract and since a comparable set-up with D* would cost about $400.

Although I was disappointed with my first Charlie Chat, especially with the lack of new HD content within the next 3 months, I think calling for Charlie's resignation is a little much. Some of us need to lighten up a little bit. Television is supposed to be a diversion and a form of entertainment not consume our lives.

A big thanks to Scott and the others who contribute to this forum. It has been a great information source and fun to participate in.

Harmon

 

[pmb1010]

Well, I'd also be a new customer, and by moving to E* I'd also get the equipment for free.

After further consideration, in light of these box bugs (which very well may get resolved via software updates) I will now wait and see what happens with VOOM, and HD video recorder offerings, both from D* and E*.

I'm not ready to "burn out" my first time user priviledge on suspect equipment.

 

[rad]

I had a long phone conversation with an engineer/designer of the 811 this afternoon to go over the problems that I've seen with the 811. Here's what I've learned, which is all subject to change if the testing turns up a problem.

- A new download should be out by this weekend to bring back the aspect ratio change function. He agreed that the 811 should have been released with at least the same functionality of the 6000 but there were some problems with the chip set that couldn't get resolved in time, but they feel they have a handle on it now.

- They did change the black level of the 811 compared to the 6000, they 6000 was higer then it should be, but they might have gone a bit too far the other way, they're looking into it.

- Interactive weather should be in the next release and the full Dish Interactive function in the release after that.

- He's going to arrange a swap of my 811 due to the problem I have receiving WBBM-DT, which the 6000 didn't have. The CSR's that I talked to refused to do that.

- He's going to look into the problem that some have reported about the quality of the analog OTA channels, he thinks it might be an issue with the line doubler in the box.

It sounds like the team has a handle on what's happening and agrees there are things that need to be corrected, which is something that I wasn't getting out of the CSR's up to this time. While it was reported that some things would be coming with a software upgrade I was concerned that these upgrades would be at the same pace as the 721's upgrades, which come out at a snails pace, if at all.

Was I bashing Dish, you sure bet I was. And I still say that the 811 is a box that probably should have spent a couple of more weeks waiting to get the software at the level that it looks like it will be at soon.

Nick, maybe your 811 is performing exactly the way you expected and if so I'm happy for you, guess you just have low expectation. If you buy a new car do you say it's alright that you need to park it and restart the engine every now and then because it stops working right? I don't think I'm alone with having problems and issues on the 811, others have reported some of the same issues that I've seen and Dish engineers are aware of them. So much for your 'unsubstantiated wide-brush hyper-critical crap.' line. Frankly Nick, you can kiss my grits!

 

[James Long]

I really don't see E* adding any new HD channels on 61.5 or 148.

I do. Remember that the last retailer chat still suggested putting up a 61.5/148 dish for HD subscribers. Most existing HD subscribers already have a 61.5/148 dish. The market for HD on 61.5/148 is pre-installed (especially in CBS-HD markets).

Moving current HDs to 110 gets new subscribers in the door quickly, with simple equipment exchanges and no 2nd dish until new paid channels are issued on the side slots. It's a good idea.

I just hope they have the room.

JL

 

[James Long]

When Charlie Ergen looked into the camera and said that they are carrying all the HD programming available to them a red flag immediately went up in my head and immediately the 100 people in our chat started complaigning about Charlies comments.

My emphasis above ...

So the only way E* wasn' lying is if the other HDs are not available to E*.

But then taking another look at the TWC bashing slides *with no scale* to show the numbers being portrayed ... if the HD comments were not lies (or at minimum - blind stupidity) the TWC slides were.

Bahgdad Bob must be feeding Charlie information.

JL

 

[Jerry G]

I had a long phone conversation with an engineer/designer of the 811 this afternoon to go over the problems that I've seen with the 811. Here's what I've learned, which is all subject to change if the testing turns up a problem.

- A new download should be out by this weekend to bring back the aspect ratio change function. He agreed that the 811 should have been released with at least the same functionality of the 6000 but there were some problems with the chip set that couldn't get resolved in time, but they feel they have a handle on it now.

- They did change the black level of the 811 compared to the 6000, they 6000 was higer then it should be, but they might have gone a bit too far the other way, they're looking into it.


Nick, maybe your 811 is performing exactly the way you expected and if so I'm happy for you, guess you just have low expectation. If you buy a new car do you say it's already that you need to park it and restart the engine every now and then because it stops working right? I don't think I'm alone with having problems and issues on the 811, others have reported some of the same issues that I've seen and Dish engineers are aware of them. So much for your 'unsubstantiated wide-brush hyper-critical crap.' line. Frankly Nick, you can kiss my grits!

rad,

Thanks for the update. I'm hoping the aspect control update also fixes a centering problem that at least one other person has reported and that I've seen on the original 811 I had and a replacement I had to get because of a problem with the first unit.

That problem is that if I center a widescreen HD channel image, and then tune in an SD channel, the SD channel isn't centered. Also, if I tune in an HD channel that is showing 4:3 material, that image is also off center. This happens with component output with 480p, 720p, and 1080i. It was also present on the DVI output. S-Video output doesn't have any centering problem. Have you observed this problem?

And I agree with you about Nick's comment. It was very unfair. The 811 may eventually be a good unit. But it was released too soon. The centering problem and lack of aspect control means that I have not connected it to my plasma and it sits almost idle connected to a small bedroom set that I rarely use. In other words, I have a product that is useless to me until the aspect ratios are restored and the centering problem is fixed. I'm glad Nick's unit is perfect for him. Mine certainly isn't usable.

 

[Stargazer]

Your average consumer isn't going to invest on the HD equipment when there is so little programming available. The providers don't want to invest in the programming when there are so few customers. Somebody has to go first... if you build it they will come.

I totally agree with you here. Dish wants to add as few HD content as possible to lure the customers in to save money. They dont want to take a complete risk. They do not want to invest that much in HD because there are not nearly as many potential HD customers to get yet. Maybe they think that since there are not many HD providers yet that they do not have to offer that many HD channels yet, and that they will accept the low content of HD channels there are available. Also customers are not going to spend $20-$30 or so above their basic and movie packages to get the same channels in HD. Dish is going to have to figure something out. The future is HD and digital, keep up or get left out.

 

[avaddict]

Your average consumer isn't going to invest on the HD equipment when there is so little programming available. The providers don't want to invest in the programming when there are so few customers. Somebody has to go first... if you build it they will come.

I totally agree with you here.
<snip>
Dish is going to have to figure something out. The future is HD and digital, keep up or get left out.

agreed, the government has MANDATED this. The FCC has said that EVERYTHING over the air has to be DTV by 2007.
people should stop thinking that HDTV is a fringe group.

 

[gpflepsen]

I had a long phone conversation with an engineer/designer of the 811 this afternoon to go over the problems that I've seen with the 811. Here's what I've learned, which is all subject to change if the testing turns up a problem.

- A new download should be out by this weekend to bring back the aspect ratio change function. He agreed that the 811 should have been released with at least the same functionality of the 6000 but there were some problems with the chip set that couldn't get resolved in time, but they feel they have a handle on it now.

So is the chip problem a software or hardware fix?

- They did change the black level of the 811 compared to the 6000, they 6000 was higer then it should be, but they might have gone a bit too far the other way, they're looking into it.

So is the black level problem a software or hardware fix?

- Interactive weather should be in the next release and the full Dish Interactive function in the release after that.

So are the Interactive Features a software or hardware fix?

- He's going to look into the problem that some have reported about the quality of the analog OTA channels, he thinks it might be an issue with the line doubler in the box.

So is this problem a software or hardware fix?

Thanks for this report.

 

[Stargazer]

Interactive features will be fixed in the future with a software upgrade. Even the 721 does not have OpenTv channel 100 on it yet. It is supposed to be added in the future on it as well.

 

[Guest]

I recorded and saw the CC and I think its bad news, maybe some silver linings.

My read:
SuperDish is clearly a flop. Its going to be for non-prime locals where Dish is one of the few options available.

The fact they are moving HD to Dish 500 means its considered hot. The fact Charlie is talking about dumping Turner stuff means he wants to free room for HD.

The real issue is when more spot beams, i.e. new satellites, will be available. Expect to see highly directional spot beams for locals in major markets with low rating channels biting the dust to make room for the pay HD channels, either subs or PPV. These pay the way. Get used to FOX, maybe no more CNN.

 

[Guest]

Also, I bet Charlie is really P.O'ed about SuperDish. Methinks he was sold a bill of goods.