So what am I not seeing, 1080i vs. p ??

[bhelms]

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere. I have linked to several articles on these topics that I found in these threads but I'm more confused than ever! (A mind is a terrible thing to lose...!) Can someone give me the "JSP" version ??

I have an A2 (max. 1080i resolution) connected to a 52" Bravia XBR2 that claims to have 1080p input capability, but it's only a 60Hz refresh rate system. The units are connected via HDMI. I generally watch in the 10' range, sometimes closer.

Given this set-up, what am I missing visually vs. having a better HD DVD player that offers the 1080p output capability? Would there be any difference at all with upconverted SD DVDs? If I were to upgrade to a better LCD TV with a 120Hz refresh rate would I see any difference with either an i or p output player?

Finally, what is the real difference between 60 and 120 Hz LCD sets? And what is "judder" - can you give me an example?

TIA and BRgds...

 

[mike123abc]

On an XBR2 1080i/1080p are pretty much the same. The TV should properly deinterlace the picture back to 1080p. XBR4/5 can take a 24HZ and make it 120HZ. When a TV/player converts 24 frames/sec to the native 60 it shows some fields 3x some 2x (This causes judder or an uneaveness since some are on longer than others). You might see a shakiness on pans and such as the timing is not smooth.

The new xbr4/5 can take a 24 film and show 5x for 120, so there is no uneaven timing.

 

[bhelms]

Tks, Mike. So if I read this correctly, the "penalty" I have for the older technology is the possibility of judder as you explained it. If I have that (probably do) I haven't noticed it. Otherwise I assume I'm getting all the resolution that the newer technology can provide, so other than for judder I also assume that the PQs would be equal. Is that true?

 

[mike123abc]

You will probably never notice any PQ difference if you do not watch the newer sets. Every generation makes improvements, but as long as you do not go watch a newer set for a while you will not know what you are missing. I believe XBR4/5 have better black levels, more contrast, improved SD scalers, etc. Of course some of it is just marketing hype, some you can see, but the best way to enjoy any set is not try to find a better one to watch.

 

[allargon]

Tks, Mike. So if I read this correctly, the "penalty" I have for the older technology is the possibility of judder as you explained it. If I have that (probably do) I haven't noticed it. Otherwise I assume I'm getting all the resolution that the newer technology can provide, so other than for judder I also assume that the PQs would be equal. Is that true?

Judder is the result of having a TV with a 60Hz refresh rate as opposed to the 24 fps as film is shot. You have lived with judder since you saw your first TV movie. It still exists with most ATSC (HDTV) sources. Some TV's are able to reverse 1080i60 (broadcast, etc.) to 1080p24 (e.g. Pioneer Elite plasmas). Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. Judder is most noticeable with credits and a few fast moving camera pans.

 

[diogen]

Judder is most noticeable with credits and a few fast moving camera pans.

No.
Judder is most noticable on slow smooth constant speed horizontal pans.
If you really pay attention you'll notice they are a bit "jumpy"...

Diogen.

 

[allargon]

No.
Judder is most noticable on slow smooth constant speed horizontal pans.
If you really pay attention you'll notice they are a bit "jumpy"...

Diogen.

The beginning scene of Inside Man going up (or was it down) that building was the jumpiest to me. It wasn't that slow.

 

[bhelms]

Tks guys. I now know what to look for (or rather to avoid looking for!). I'd like a side-by-side comparison, for the HD movies and i vs. p, but it won't happen. I'll try to be satisfied...

I agree about the better contrast ratios and black levels in the newer sets. My XBR2 is 7000:1 max. and the 4 I looked at last evening had 16000:1, both dynamic. I think I could "see a difference" in the black depth even tho' the sets were miles apart. That's something I'm sensitive to, and perhaps LCD's worst weakness. Perhaps a real calibration would help mine. Right now I need to keep the brightness and backlighting down to avoid washed-out blacks in my current set. Again, a side-by-side comparison would be interesting. TVs are now very much like computers (which, of course, they are!) - it's already obsolete when you first power it up!

Tks again and BRgds...