Smart Car?

[navychop]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like we went down the same path, and pretty much came to the same conclusions. But this will be an experiment, heavily weighted on getting the absolute max mpg and lowest life cycle costs. So that meant the Smart Car. BTW, it was supposed to be priced lower when introduced in the States, but came in at least 2 thousand more than originally mentioned. I think they're trying Real Hard to turn a profit on it. I guess with a year plus backlog, they can jack up the price still further. I'll bet the price will go up in tandem with gas prices.

There are a hundred or so Smart Car EDs in the UK. This is the pure electric version. I think it has a 70 mile range. If this company car works out ok, and they put that ED version on the US market, I think I'd buy it personally. I really think small electric commuters are what most of us really need. Perhaps in addition to a gasser.

I look forward to hearing your neighbor's thoughts and experience with her Smart.

 

[Foxbat]

When I was in Monte Carlo back in 2003, I saw one of the Smart Roadster Coupes. I think this would be a lot more fun that the more up-right Fortwo, but, alas, they stopped making the Roadster in 2005.

 

[jayn_j]

I apologize for reviving anold thread. Thar said...

I followed a Smart Car through a series of urban curves today. You know, the sort where they split a thoroughfare into two one way streets and then back again. We were traveling at 30 something, and slowed a bit for the corner. Typical light traffic city manuver, not tire squealing, but spirited.

The reason I mentioned this is that the Smart Car lifted its inside rear wheel, and not a little bit. It was probably 6-8 " off the ground. Now, I have autocrossed and rallied GTIs in the past, and am used to this behavior, but it always happens on the VW when all the tires are squealing and you know you are pushing limits. This made me think that the guy was in danger of rolling it if he pushed it any harder, like maybe an evasive lane change.

 

[navychop]

Not the best news for someone with one on order. Oh well, it's only a commuter, not likely I'll be pushing any limits.

 

[navychop]

And today I learned that VW is bringing back the diesel Jetta to the U.S., this summer. Oh, well.

And I reread your post about the low speed, which I somehow missed first time around. Guess I'll go for another test drive. The company is not likely to cancel it now, though.

 

[navychop]

OK- just rec'd more data on the VW Jetta TDI (clean diesel). Looks like it gets over 50 mpg combined city/hwy driving. And "might" go for only around 3 or 4K more than the Smart Car.

At that, it would appear that the Jetta might well calculate out to lower life cycle costs. IF the purchase price is really that low. It seems the old diesel Jettas are more popular now than when they first sold them. Been off the market for a while.

I'm not a VW fan. I just remember the EuroVan. However, we'll have to look at this.

Anyone have any experience driving a Jetta, diesel or otherwise?

 

[Peter Parker]

I would rather ride around in a Jetta as well.

 

[navychop]

I think I might stop by today or this weekend and see one. Need to know right off if I'd fit- I'm just under 6'. Lotta cars too cramped. I was quite surprised at how much room is inside the Smart Car.

Of course, there's also a sales critter looking at the Jetta. So even if I don't go for it, 1 or 2 others might.

 

[Peter Parker]

We did a test drive of the Smart car back in December (they had a traveling tour that happened to be in my parents town over the holidays). It was fun...liked the steering shifting, decent headroom/legroom.

Overall, however, we felt it was overpriced for what you got. If it was $12K tops, then it might make more sense imho.

We also looked at used Toyota Prius, but in the end, it still pegged over our price-to-value estimates for overall fuel savings and base price cost. Good car, though, down the line I'll be interested in considering it as a trade-up/in.

We ended up with a nicely appointed (for what it is--decent radio w/ iPod/aux connect, leather steering wheel cover, all-season mats, fog lights, keyless security, alloy wheels, etc) Honda Fit Sport. As you listed comparative price-points, it's very economically priced without feeling too 'toy'ish, and it's hatchback functionality (multi-position 60/40 split seats) is fantastic. Not bad for 16K. The Sport version of the Fit has steering wheel shifters like the Smart, funny enough, for a semi-manual/auto feel (toggling up/down 1-2-3-D on the auto tran...haven't really tested it out, though). So far, quite happy.

I know the company car is purchased--just thought I'd share the parallel considerations we made.

And as an aside, noticed this past weekend that our new neighbors across the street have a red Smart car (and a Prius...a number of Prius on our street, which I found odd/interesting as there are a lot of older/retired couples on our block). The Smart owner introduced herself to my wife today, might have to ask about how she likes her ride.

How much less is a Fit vs a Civic? Looking a t the web site the Fit looks like it goes for less than $1000 less than a Civic and actually gets inferior highway mileage---but slightly better in the city. Am i missing something?

 

[Bob Haller]

friend has a fit and loves it........

 

[Peter Parker]

friend has a fit and loves it........

I am not saying that it is a bad car. I am just saying that it is priced pretty close to the larger Civic and I am quite amazed at how similar the MPG are.

 

[jayn_j]

OK- just rec'd more data on the VW Jetta TDI (clean diesel). Looks like it gets over 50 mpg combined city/hwy driving. And "might" go for only around 3 or 4K more than the Smart Car.

At that, it would appear that the Jetta might well calculate out to lower life cycle costs. IF the purchase price is really that low. It seems the old diesel Jettas are more popular now than when they first sold them. Been off the market for a while.

I'm not a VW fan. I just remember the EuroVan. However, we'll have to look at this.

Anyone have any experience driving a Jetta, diesel or otherwise?

I am 6 ft and 300 pounds. I have driven several GTIs into the ground. You should have sufficient headroom if you don't get the sunroof. My last GTI had the sunroof standard, and I had to play a lot to get a good seating position.

My last GTI was an electrical nightmare. It wouold fail totally for no reason, need to be towed, and then be no trouble found the next day. Eventually, it had a serious engine fire that was caused by the wiring. I also had problems with the cooling system over time, but this was probably unique to the VR6. A lot of folks have also reported problems with leaking heater cores, and my last one had that as well. I would be very careful before buying a new VW, especially if it is mexican manufactured and if you plan to drive it 200k miles as I generally do.

 

[navychop]

More to consider. Have to do some research.

Just got back from a VW dealer. As surmised, I fit into it easily, plenty of room left over. And the trunk! The car is smaller than my Accord, but the trunk could fit 4 bodies with room left over!

Anyway, I've learned that Honda has a similar diesel for 2009, perhaps in both the Accord and the Civic. Have to look at them, too. Then calculate which will give the highest mileage and lowest life cycle cost, out of the four.

 

[NpaulTodd]

smart car my azz, if your planing on buying a hybrid there only one to get the Toyota Camry , why because it gets great gas mileage and its full size & you don't look like a dork driving around in a tin can , this is the best hybrid out there period!
Toyota Camry Hybrid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2008 Toyota Camry Hybrid Reviews, Photos, Options and Pricing - Best Cars & Trucks - U.S. News Rankings and Reviews
why people get fooled into smaller cars or other hybrids is beyond me , this is the best MPG car you can find !

this car was rated at over 40+ mpg until they changed the standards , but peeps are still getting close to that !

 

[kenny911]

Yeah I'm all over that new Jetta in a couple years when my lease expires and hopefully they work out all the first year model bugs by then.

 

[navychop]

... if your planing on buying a hybrid ...

Er- no. The cars under consideration are NOT hybrids.

 

[Bob Haller]

my buddy who bought a fit is 6 foot 4.....

many vehicles he just doesnt fit, his fit is a nice exception.

 

[navychop]

UPDATE: From this story I get:
"The federal EPA rates the new turbo-diesel 2009 Jetta TDI at 30 miles per gallon in the city and 41 mpg on the highway, for a combined rating of just 34 mpg.

The automaker had been boasting of 60 mpg highway fuel economy for the new 50-state clean diesel Jetta, which goes on sale in late August."

So it looks like the diesel Jetta is not a contender. Given the now higher price of diesel, and higher capital cost, and EPA MPG figures almost identical to the Smart Car, there is no way the Jetta could come out as the lowest cost option.

I'll have to assume those stories about a 2009 diesel Honda Accord getting 52 mpg will be just as (in)accurate as the 50-60 mpg diesel Jetta stories were.

Looks like there are no other low life cycle cost contenders out there. Certainly not hybrids, with their battery costs. Waiting a year for a Smart Car is about the only option now.

 

[Bob Haller]

ZENN Motor Company

anyone know about this one? it appears to be for sale in the us

 

[primestar31]

I just don't get it. Almost 20 years ago, Geo Metro's were getting 50 MPG. They were gasoline, didn't cost a ton of money, and got you to where you were going. I owned one, and YES, I did get 50MPG! How come today they can't build a car in the U.S. of A. that can once again, really get at least 50 MPG all the time? Also, something like this shouldn't cost $40,000! Now they have these crappy tiny little cars that are even SMALLER than the Metro, and they STILL can't get 50mpg! Even the hybrids aren't rated at 50MPG!

Somebody has GOT to be paying off somebody to keep this stuff off the market!!

Where's the 3 cylinder Diesel hybrids, with at least a 6-speed transmission?

Now the diesel VW's are ONLY getting 30-41mpg? Those companies should be ashamed of themselves! How do you take a 2008-2009 diesel, and suddenly you are only getting 1/2 the MPG they got 20 years ago?