Sky Angel Plans to Charge Lifelong Subscribers for "Special Secular" Channels

[catkoko]

won't do anything to get sued? disagree

I have to disagree with several points you have made below, Christian businesses, ministries etc violate the law all the time (intentionally or not). Some people even take advantage of the fact hoping that a "fellow Christian won't sue"

Quite honestly I wouldn't give up just because SA says so. After all they haven't proven to be "men of their word" so far, have they? Maybe they are waiting for us to go away quietly?

there are still many more avenues to explore. I myself haven't even started yet. There is the FLA ATTNY general, small claims, class action suit, arbitration, and of course the court of good old pubic opinion (TV, newpaper etc). Especially if you write an article to your local paper , christian magazine and mention GLORY STAR in it besides

Lifetime subs were "nonrefundable" yes, however they were also supposed to include 32 channels, no additional fees etc. Once they try to change one part of the contract its all up for grabs. quite honestly it would be cheaper for them to refund the lifetime fee then to a)fight this in court or b)absorb the fees

Also, you realize that they aren't going to do anything that is going to be able to get them sued? They may be a Christian company, but they are a corporation and they do have lawyers on staff. You don't think they analyzed every angle of this change before it got put into effect? I wouldn't hold your breath hoping that Sky Angel is going to refund you anything, I know from contacting them that Lifelong subscriptions are non-refundable.

When I contacted SA they told me they haven't shut off the secular channels yet, but I was told its more due to processing the paperwork still and organizing the removal of channels through Dish Network and it will happen in the near future.

Anyway, this news is 6 weeks old now and its obviously not going to change. For those of you that contacted your local BBB good luck with that, as stated above they reserve the right to change the terms and conditions. Case closed as it were.[/quote]

 

[Mr Tony]

When I contacted SA they told me they haven't shut off the secular channels yet, but I was told its more due to processing the paperwork still and organizing the removal of channels through Dish Network and it will happen in the near future.

that sounds right. Since DIsh controls it all, Sky ANgel has to send the form to Dish to remove X channels from receiver X

 

[catkoko]

Poor business management

This whole thing should have, could have been avoided in the first place. They should have projected the cost to add the "special 4" to determine if it could indeed be done and at the price they wanted to charge. They could have scrapped the plan or adjusted the monthly cost accordingly. SA knows in advance the procedure to have DISH turn off channels but once again they give a cut off date of 5/1 and then can't follow through. they had no problem getting rid of family land on 5/2! Maybe they should have contacted a financial planner before they started buying up land in Florida for "future expansion"?

 

[Mr Tony]

This whole thing should have, could have been avoided in the first place. They should have projected the cost to add the "special 4" to determine if it could indeed be done and at the price they wanted to charge. They could have scrapped the plan or adjusted the monthly cost accordingly.

but how do you know those channels may said "well we're raising your rates on what it costs you to carry them". Do you think SA is going to eat that cost?

SA knows in advance the procedure to have DISH turn off channels but once again they give a cut off date of 5/1 and then can't follow through.

no offence but you're complaining that you HAVENT lost channels yet??
If someone said "we're cutting off 4 chanenls on X date" and then forget, I'd be happy. But I guess that's just me

they had no problem getting rid of family land on 5/2!

everyone lost it. Not just specific people. Obviously its easier to do a mass change (Dish changes PIDS on a channel and voila...new programming) than remove 4 channels from say 50000 receivers. Dish does it all the time when they move stuff around. They move channels around on transponders and all receivers get the update.

 

[elder]

Maybe they should have contacted a financial planner before they started buying up land in Florida for "future expansion"?

Anyone know what this expansion is about?

 

[catkoko]

they also have land in TN (july 2006 article)
Cleveland Selected by Sky Angel for New Call Center
Rob Johnson (center), CEO, Sky Angel/Dominion Video Satellite Inc., cuts the ribbon dedicating Sky Angel’s new Cleveland, TN operations. Photo by Sky Angels.

In April, Sky Angel, a direct-to-home satellite television service, announced its decision to expand its Naples, FL operation and open a new call center in Cleveland, TN. The call center, located at the Life Care Centers of America’s Campbell Center in Cleveland, will bring nearly 50 new jobs initially and more than 200 new jobs to the local community over the next several years.

“We are grateful to Cleveland/Bradley County and Tennessee state officials for their support and assistance in helping to make this a smooth transition for our company,” says Rob Johnson, Jr., CEO of Sky Angel. “We are already seeing the fruits of these efforts in the quality and number of employees that we’ve been able to attract so far.”

Taken from gulfshore business may 2004 in an interview with bob Johnson:
Soon, Johnson and Sky Angel will be employing more like-minded souls. The network acquired 23 acres of land in the Tollgate Commercial Center near I-75, and is waiting for permits to start construction of a major campus and technology center there, comprised of 50 large satellite dishes, TV studios, a corporate office, a 1,500-seat conference center and a private hotel. The campus will take two to three years to complete, and will employ as many as 350 people once construction is finished.

Future programming plans call for more channels and a broader audience appeal, for those who are not necessarily spiritually minded, but who are looking for cleaner programming nonetheless. “We’ve just begun the mission,” says Johnson. “We’re past the organizational stage, but we’re still in very early stages of development. On a developmental scale of one to 100, we’re at about a 10.”
Sky Angel has contracts to build satellites and position them around the world and create physical facilities that can produce and deliver the network’s message. It’s a big, expensive message, says Johnson, citing a contract with Orbital Science Corporation to build multiple satellites. “We’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars, not just a few million dollars,” he says.

 

[catkoko]

complaining, yes I am if you want to see it that way

First of all we are a family of 10, one TV and one Satellite SA. That means we plan out our viewing in advance (no easy task wiht this many people) there were shows coming up that we had wanted to watch but SA was supposed to cut off hallmark, HGTV etc. now do we reschedule , plan on watching and then have them cut us off tomorrow? They have been aggravating, have inconvenienced us, rude in not answering letters etc. I bought a lifetime to avoid all of this.

Is it supposed to make it any better that EVERYONE lost another channel? WE have ALL lost way too many already.

yes I still think this all could have been avoided. I am sure SA has some sort of a contract with DISH, isn't that what SA sued DISH over before? Their letter made it sound like they didn't realize how much it would cost them, not that they got a rate increase. Like someone said before they don't seem to know how many lifetimers they have!

 

[elder]

SA Vision circa 2004

This lifted from an SA news release in 2004, note that lifetime subscribers are not mentioned they may indeed have came as a surprise to Rob.

Dominion appreciates the wide support from within the Christian community during this extremely trying time. The mission and purpose of Sky Angel is to develop a worldwide multi-channel, high-power direct broadcast satellite broadcasting system for spreading the Gospel free of secular control, as distinct from every other commercial-secular cable or satellite system. Because Sky Angel exists, families can receive wholesome, Christ-centered programming without being forced to receive in their homes or to support television programming that is hostile to or in conflict with their Christian values. Sky Angel also serves as a valuable evangelistic tool with the multi-channel service being delivered, in some cases at no charge, into prisons, homeless shelters, substance abuse facilities, hospitals, nursing homes, colleges and more; Sky Angel’s Angel One channel, with a special emphasis on carrying a variety of ministries, large and small, that are focused on evangelizing and ministering to lost and hurting people, is also available free of charge on the DISH Network.

As the only Christian organization in the world licensed by any government to operate a high-power satellite system, Sky Angel is a valuable tool for the Church to move in unity, to evangelize the lost, and to equip the body of Christ to fulfill the Great Commission, so it is essential to defend and protect the vision given for Sky Angel by holding accountable those who try to bring harm to this ministry.

Dominion will continue to press forward with its plans to provide the Gospel to every nation in the world through a Christian-owned and -controlled satellite television delivery system in obedience to the vision the Lord gave for the Sky Angel ministry 24 years ago.

SKY ANGEL MISSION AND PURPOSE
From the very beginning, 24 years ago, when God placed a call on Robert W. Johnson Sr.'s life to create what today remains the world's only Christian Direct Broadcast Satellite “DBS” platform, our mission has never changed. Through the Lord's revelation, we knew then as we know today that the only method of assuring that the Gospel could be spread to the entire world — uninterrupted and unimpeded by geographic barriers, land lines and cables, and ever-changing, often hostile political boundaries — was via high-powered, wireless deep-space satellites owned and controlled by Christians totally committed to exclusively using this technology as a true instrument of helping to fulfill the "Great Commission." The satellite itself is then the platform — the "Angel in the Sky" — for the ministers, preachers and teachers of our age to first reach and disciple America and then to reach the most unreachable of God's lost children in the world.

There are only four DBS satellite services in America today: Sky Angel, DirecTV, DISH Network, and Voom Network. Sky Angel is the only one devoted exclusively to airing Christian and wholesome family television and radio programming. As the only Christian-owned and -controlled satellite television and radio platform licensed by the government in the world, we are able today to beam 20 television channels and 16 radio channels of Christian programming 24 hours a day across North America.

We do this all for our programmers by providing no-cost DBS airtime and for the body of Christ where individual homes, churches, businesses and more pay a modest monthly or annual subscription fee to help support, strengthen and grow the Sky Angel system. When we go international, many Sky Angel's radio and television signals will be "free-to-air" overseas utilizing a very low-cost DBS receiving system and small dish so that those who have never had the benefit of receiving Christ-centered TV or radio programming will be able to in even the most unreachable areas of the world.

Presently, Sky Angel's powerful television and radio signals are capable of being received virtually anywhere in North America. It would be impossible today for any Christian ministry to acquire enough television stations or cable systems capable of reaching the entire U.S. population. This impossibility has been overcome by Sky Angel's multi-channel television and radio channel signals that now cover virtually all of North America.

We're excited! We're humbled by the opportunity ahead. And we rejoice in being able to share this great endeavor with those who have been called and anointed to spread God's Word and use this remarkable technology that He has placed in our hands.

Therefore, protecting this God-ordained project from those who may be blinded to God's ordained scope, mission and purpose for Sky Angel, and who would bring it harm willingly or unwillingly, is the only reason this lawsuit was filed against EchoStar.

This from the same source is interesting. I think our emails were in the spirit of a Matt 18 request, but SA blew them off:

NO MATTHEW 18 REQUEST
At no time did either Daystar or FamilyNet inform Sky Angel of their actions, and there was no request of a meeting under the directives of "Matthew 18" prior to Daystar or FamilyNet entering into agreements with EchoStar, even though each party acknowledged it knew Dominion would have concerns if it was aware of what they were conspiring to do with EchoStar (according to discovery evidence in November 2002 when Marcus Lamb thought DISH Network may not put him on, he stated to DISH executives if this was about "Dominion and Bob Johnson” to call him off the record and he would give them "compelling information” to alleviate their fears; see link to “Marcus Lamb e-mail about Dominion to EchoStar” below, or click here: Marcus Lamb email about Dominion to Echostar). Daystar only requested a "Matthew 18" meeting after their secret agreements with EchoStar came to light when both channels were added in December 2002 to DISH Network and court action was filed against EchoStar. Because Daystar and FamilyNet made agreements with a secular company, a "Matthew 18" meeting would not apply at this point because EchoStar would not be required to abide by any decisions made in such a Christian-based meeting. Therefore, Dominion has proceeded under the biblical directives of Romans 13:1-5 and Luke 12:2-3. Mr. Lamb has made statements that Dominion's Robert Johnson never agreed to meet with him under the directives of Matthew 18. On the contrary, Mr. Johnson did agree to meet with Mr. Lamb, however, Mr. Lamb sent out a libelous letter to programmers during the same time he was allegedly trying to establish a meeting with Mr. Johnson (see link to "Letters from Mr. Johnson to Mr. Lamb" below, or click here: Letters from Mr. Johnson to Mr. Lamb); when it was apparent that Mr. Lamb's attempts were not made in a biblical fashion, but apparently as a public relations stunt, Sky Angel told Mr. Lamb he had forfeited any meeting. In fact, the chairman of the NRB concurred with Sky Angel and also admonished Mr. Lamb for his disingenuous actions.

 

[catkoko]

VERY good points. also note that SA calls for "arbitration" in case of a dispute yet they have ignored such requests from several people!

 

[lumpkin666]

VERY good points. also note that SA calls for "arbitration" in case of a dispute yet they have ignored such requests from several people!

Having dealt with arbitration, you don't request it from the other party. You submit your aribitration claims to the arbitration organization (along with their fee), and then the organization "makes it happen".

Here's their website if you want to get started - http://www.adr.org/
Of course, if you're serious, I'd skip arbitration and find a lawyer who has worked with this sort of thing before. A competent lawyer will file a court case, and file successful rebuttal against SA's arbitration arguments in order to keep the case in court where you have a better chance for success (if you have the hundreds of thousands of dollars it may require to take this all the way).

 

[elder]

Having dealt with arbitration, you don't request it from the other party. You submit your aribitration claims to the arbitration organization (along with their fee), and then the organization "makes it happen".

Here's their website if you want to get started - http://www.adr.org/
Of course, if you're serious, I'd skip arbitration and find a lawyer who has worked with this sort of thing before. A competent lawyer will file a court case, and file successful rebuttal against SA's arbitration arguments in order to keep the case in court where you have a better chance for success (if you have the hundreds of thousands of dollars it may require to take this all the way).

I think that is why they are essentially ignoring us, they know we won't go to court for a lousy $4.99 per month, and no trial lawyer will touch it as there is no monetary claim. I have emailed the NRB to see if SA is a member and to see if they have any suggestions.

 

[elder]

I checked with ECFA and Sky Angel is not a member. One might think that if SA is a ministry rather than a business it would be a member of ECFA.

 

[lumpkin666]

I checked with ECFA and Sky Angel is not a member. One might think that if SA is a ministry rather than a business it would be a member of ECFA.

I've thought about that in the past, as I see people conversing over whether or not one should bring legal action against Sky Angel. My personal beliefs tend to interpret scripture less literal, but regardless of that, can a business be considered Christian? I would think, other than a religious institution/ministry, a business itself has no individual conscious and thereby cannot express a belief in Christ any more than my shoe can. Of course those who operate the business can express this belief, but then we're not talking about the individuals. I think nothing of behaving in a Christ-like manner towards my shoe, so I had a hard time thinking of extending those values towards any other non-living/non-conscious object (such as a business).


In saying that, however, I suppose I do own a pair of white shoes that I only wear (in combination with other 'special' clothing) in specific buildings dedicated to specific religious purposes. I do treat those shoes in a "loving" manner, in that I tend to them more regularly than my old smelly sneakers, I clean them to ensure their clean white presentation, and I store them in a special container set aside to protect them while not in use. However, I suppose, if they were to wear out and start causing me pain or blisters, I would have no troubles disposing of them and replacing them with something more suitable. So I suppose I am really a bit conflicted on the subject :/

 

[Peter Iowa]

current thoughts

I have not logged on for a month, and just read this entire thread...

In mho, SA should not have charged but also people should not sue; however,
I no longer subscribe to any satellite service except the Atlanta/SF
private package. There are 2 ku band antennas (31 and 36 inch) in my now
flooded back yard. (looking at 123 and 97 degrees) If people feel they should sue it's their decision - I never
thought the 4 new special channels were very good additions to start with.

I watch JCTV for free and it's changing so much that it may be totally unrecognizable in a year. The free angel one channel (262) took the sat. night
Christian rock shows and messed up the schedule - I was quite peeved -
but I will not add any pay tv for at least a year from now if that soon.

Apparently the international expansion of SA had made them change their
approach even more in recent months... perhaps not for the better for North
American folks.

Peter in soggy Iowa

 

[elder]

The Hallmark channels have so many commercials I don't understand why SA would have to pay to air them.

 

[ShaneLinder]

I have never been a fan of the Hallmark channels.

 

[elder]

I have never been a fan of the Hallmark channels.

Occasionally a movie worth watching most of the time not with a lot of repeats.

 

[lovejesus]

I am a lifetime subseribers, I feel all of you who want to sue sky angel for wanting you to pay for the four channels are wrong. Are you being true CHRISTIANS in my eyes your not. I say if you still have them block the channels. the channels don't bother me or my husband.

 

[catkoko]

Aren't Christians supposed to confront those who are in sin? If necessary going back with witnesses? What would you call this "Christian Ministry" that is breaching their lifetime contract. then again if they want to be a for profit business then they are not really Christian at all so a law suit would be ok then, wouldn't it? Since SA sued DISH they must believe lawsuits are a suitable way to resolve things.

$5 a month may not be much to some of you but to others on a fixed income it is a lot of $. for those of you who insist it is so affordable I would be happy to accept a check made out to SA for 10 years of the "special 4" channels. Lets see, that comes to what, $600. Still affordable? of course that assumes that they do not raise the price for the next 10 years!!!!!!

 

[ShaneLinder]

These are Paul's words, "The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?" In context he is talking about lawsuits between believers, not lawsuits against nonbelievers.

Now if we sue Sky Angel, no matter how anyone wants to twist, turn or spin it, when the matter comes before a nonreligious judge, imagine the impact it will have on his perception of Christianity. He will see one group of persons claiming to be Christians suing another group of Christians claiming to be Christian. "Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?" Such a situation would surely bring shame on the gospel of Christ.