Silicondust started testing for Nextgen certification on June 3, 2023

[dweber]

Silicondust has started testing their HDHomerun ATSC 3.0 box for Nextgen certification on June 3, 2023. The testing appears to be going well. They will be adding parental controls to satisfy the Nextgen standards. Once it passes all the tests they will be able to sell their box as Nextgen certified.
Unfortunately being able to decrypt encrypted broadcasts is considered an optional feature for Nextgen certification according to Nick at Silicondust. So they could be Nextgen certified but still unable to show broadcasts that use encryption. They still plan to be able to decrypt broadcasts that use encryption but no date has been issued for when that will occur.
Remember that TV’s that have ATSC 3.0 tuners are able to receive encrypted broadcasts. DVR boxes are the ones having issues. Broadcasters don’t want you to skip their commercials.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ancient]

Silicondust has started testing their HDHomerun ATSC 3.0 box for Nextgen certification on June 3, 2023. The testing appears to be going well. They will be adding parental controls to satisfy the Nextgen standards. Once it passes all the tests they will be able to sell their box as Nextgen certified.
Unfortunately being able to decrypt encrypted broadcasts is considered an optional feature for Nextgen certification according to Nick at Silicondust. So they could be Nextgen certified but still unable to show broadcasts that use encryption. They still plan to be able to decrypt broadcasts that use encryption but no date has been issued for when that will occur.
Remember that TV’s that have ATSC 3.0 tuners are able to receive encrypted broadcasts. DVR boxes are the ones having issues. Broadcasters don’t want you to skip their commercials.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The big question for me is will the new devices be able to internally (without the use of a "cloud" server) convert AC4 audio to 5.1 AC3. If not, then I have zero interest in the new box. And I will also have zero interest if they can't decrypt encrypted broadcasts.

Sorry, but it's my opinion that the FCC really screwed the pooch when it comes to ATSC3, and I have no plans to get ATSC3 anything at this point, although if SiliconDust ever does come out with a ATSC3 box that can handle decryption AND convert AC4 to 5.1 AC3 (NOT STEREO, I am not paying good money to hear a format that began in the 1950's or 1960's, and I don't want my audio being sent to a "cloud" server anyway), I might reconsider. In fact I probably would reconsider if that type of device came out.

Yeah I know, licensing costs blah blah blah, but the thing is, not everyone buys a stupid soundbar for audio, and calls that good enough. That's like using the cheapest plastic tile you can find for your kitchen backsplash, it's functional but not the best experience. I'm not one of those people who has a dozen speakers around my room but I do have a 5.1 system and I do want to hear surround sound out of the side/rear speakers, and if nobody wants to provide a device capable of delivering that, then when ATSC1 goes dark I'll just stop watching broadcast TV (which I find myself getting more sick of every year anyway. Seriously, I think the networks have forgotten how to make entertaining programs).

As for the broadcasters, they have held a privileged position for far too long, and I have always hated that local broadcasters act as gatekeepers between viewers and network programming. I predict that if the broadcasters don't get off their high horses and start listening to what viewers want (definitely NOT encryption!) it will not be that long before they are going to be as irrelevant as Western Union for most Americans. I think Western Union is actually an apt comparison because at one time they were a service almost everyone used, and if they had played their cards right they could have become a major ISP, but that would have meant not doing business the way they'd always done it. I'm sure broadcasters will have a niche market long after most people are watching everything via the internet (with no annoying local station pre-emptions or local banner overlays or weather radar bugs or putting the network program in a shrunken box so they can show the ONE area upcoming school closing continuously throughout the entirety of prime time, with a banner ad on the side, just to mention a few common annoyances I've seen) but I honestly think the only thing local stations are even marginally good for these days is local news, and even that isn't what it used to be.

Anyway, if broadcast TV dies, or becomes a shadow of what it used to be, I fully blame the FCC for allowing encryption and a proprietary audio format in the ATSC3 standard.

 

[dweber]

The big question for me is will the new devices be able to internally (without the use of a "cloud" server) convert AC4 audio to 5.1 AC3. If not, then I have zero interest in the new box.

That is why I have no interest in the Silicondust AC 3.0 box. But I am considering getting a new Sony TV. The new Sony TV’s all have ATSC 3.0 tuners. The ATSC 3.0 tuner internally converts AC4 audio to 5.1 AC3. Plus encryption is not a problem with TVs.
It should also help my reception from both Dayton and Columbus, Ohio since it handles multipath. Plus several stations have upgraded their broadcast to 1080P.
The one negative that I will miss is the ability to DVR and skip commercials.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ancient]

That is why I have no interest in the Silicondust AC 3.0 box. But I am considering getting a new Sony TV. The new Sony TV’s all have ATSC 3.0 tuners. The ATSC 3.0 tuner internally converts AC4 audio to 5.1 AC3. Plus encryption is not a problem with TVs.
It should also help my reception from both Dayton and Columbus, Ohio since it handles multipath. Plus several stations have upgraded their broadcast to 1080P.
The one negative that I will miss is the ability to DVR and skip commercials.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A new TV is fine if you feel like replacing a perfectly good ATSC1 TV just to get ATSC3, and if you are willing to watch TV at an appointed time, including all the commercials.

I am not willing to do any of that. Particularly the "appointment television" thing. I can't even begin to express how much I despise the idea of having to be in front of a TV at an appointed time, for a fixed amount of time, in order to watch a show. I did that for much of my life, and then I found out how freeing a VCR and then a PVR is. Maybe you are willing to go back to that, but I would rather never watch a television show again in my life than go back to that. And I'm a senior citizen - do you really think any younger people are going to do that? They are used to getting what they want when they want it from the Internet. If a broadcaster says "you will turn on your TV (or even your cell phone) at an appointed time and sit there for a full hour (or half hour) or you won't see the show", I would say you can F right off and take your effing TV show with you, and I was raised watching that kind of TV (originally in black and white)! There is absolutely NO TV show I'd want to see badly enough that I would go back to doing that.

I do realize that some people use TV's for background noise and could not care less if they actually get to watch a show or not, so maybe they will be the people who wind up buying new ATSC3 TV's, but people like me sure as hell won't.

That said, however...

It occurs to me that if SiliconDust will not make the product people really want, either because they can't figure out how or because they don't want to pay licensing fees or because of some stupid regulations or laws keep them from doing it, I would not be terribly surprised if the people who make "pirate" boxes get into that business. When ATSC1 stations start going dark, there are going to be a LOT of very pissed off people who don't give a flying f about laws, regulations, patents, or royalties; they just want to be able to DVR their TV shows and maybe hear good audio. It would not shock me one bit if the skull-and-crossbones crowd starts making converter boxes with built in PVR capability, using the ffmpeg hack to convert the AC4 audio to something older receivers can handle, and selling them on the dark web and at county fairs and flea markets, the same way they have been selling streaming boxes using pirate addons for Kodi. But the difference is that while the streaming pirate boxes usually stop working as soon as the illegal streams are shut down, a box that converts ATSC3 in ways that customers actually want will not be using "illegal" streams, they will be using the very legal ASTC3 streams that all ATSC3 TV's will know how to encrypt, So all they have to do is figure out how to make their boxes pretend to be a real ATSC3 TV. I sure couldn't do it but we all know there are many very clever people out there who will do damn near anything to get around artificial limitations.

I suppose the broadcasters could come up with some kind of card access scheme where in order to watch encrypted local TV you have to insert a conditional access card of some kind that's changed out every so often, but that's what was done for small dish satellite TV and from what I read, even that did not stop some of the pirate boxes from working (at least not until considerable time had passed) and I don't think even the brain dead bureaucrats at the FCC would try to foist that kind of scheme on over-the-air TV viewers (plus you could never make that work with any current cell phones). Anyway, the point I was attempting to make is that if SiliconDust can decrypt encrypted stations, they had best do so, and if they can convert AC4 audio to AC3 5.1 or 7.1 without using a cloud server they had best do that too. Otherwise there's going to be a huge incentive for the skull-and-crossbones guys to come up with the type of device that can't be purchased from a legitimate company like SiliconDust, but that many viewers will want. And I don't know about anyone else, but believe me, I'd much rather buy a product like that from a legitimate company like SiliconDust than from some shady guy on the dark web or at a flea market!

And also, this doesn't even consider the possibility of some kind of software defined TV receiver, where all the hardware is "legitimate" but oh look, there are ways to hack the device using software to make it do whatever you want. All I am saying is if ATSC1 goes dark and there are no good converter/PVR boxes out there, that's a big "need" that somebody's going to fill!

 

[primestar31]

A new TV is fine if you feel like replacing a perfectly good ATSC1 TV just to get ATSC3, and if you are willing to watch TV at an appointed time, including all the commercials.

I am not willing to do any of that. Particularly the "appointment television" thing. I can't even begin to express how much I despise the idea of having to be in front of a TV at an appointed time, for a fixed amount of time, in order to watch a show. I did that for much of my life, and then I found out how freeing a VCR and then a PVR is. Maybe you are willing to go back to that, but I would rather never watch a television show again in my life than go back to that. And I'm a senior citizen - do you really think any younger people are going to do that? They are used to getting what they want when they want it from the Internet. If a broadcaster says "you will turn on your TV (or even your cell phone) at an appointed time and sit there for a full hour (or half hour) or you won't see the show", I would say you can F right off and take your effing TV show with you, and I was raised watching that kind of TV (originally in black and white)! There is absolutely NO TV show I'd want to see badly enough that I would go back to doing that.

I do realize that some people use TV's for background noise and could not care less if they actually get to watch a show or not, so maybe they will be the people who wind up buying new ATSC3 TV's, but people like me sure as hell won't.

That said, however...

It occurs to me that if SiliconDust will not make the product people really want, either because they can't figure out how or because they don't want to pay licensing fees or because of some stupid regulations or laws keep them from doing it, I would not be terribly surprised if the people who make "pirate" boxes get into that business. When ATSC1 stations start going dark, there are going to be a LOT of very pissed off people who don't give a flying f about laws, regulations, patents, or royalties; they just want to be able to DVR their TV shows and maybe hear good audio. It would not shock me one bit if the skull-and-crossbones crowd starts making converter boxes with built in PVR capability, using the ffmpeg hack to convert the AC4 audio to something older receivers can handle, and selling them on the dark web and at county fairs and flea markets, the same way they have been selling streaming boxes using pirate addons for Kodi. But the difference is that while the streaming pirate boxes usually stop working as soon as the illegal streams are shut down, a box that converts ATSC3 in ways that customers actually want will not be using "illegal" streams, they will be using the very legal ASTC3 streams that all ATSC3 TV's will know how to encrypt, So all they have to do is figure out how to make their boxes pretend to be a real ATSC3 TV. I sure couldn't do it but we all know there are many very clever people out there who will do damn near anything to get around artificial limitations.

I suppose the broadcasters could come up with some kind of card access scheme where in order to watch encrypted local TV you have to insert a conditional access card of some kind that's changed out every so often, but that's what was done for small dish satellite TV and from what I read, even that did not stop some of the pirate boxes from working (at least not until considerable time had passed) and I don't think even the brain dead bureaucrats at the FCC would try to foist that kind of scheme on over-the-air TV viewers (plus you could never make that work with any current cell phones). Anyway, the point I was attempting to make is that if SiliconDust can decrypt encrypted stations, they had best do so, and if they can convert AC4 audio to AC3 5.1 or 7.1 without using a cloud server they had best do that too. Otherwise there's going to be a huge incentive for the skull-and-crossbones guys to come up with the type of device that can't be purchased from a legitimate company like SiliconDust, but that many viewers will want. And I don't know about anyone else, but believe me, I'd much rather buy a product like that from a legitimate company like SiliconDust than from some shady guy on the dark web or at a flea market!

And also, this doesn't even consider the possibility of some kind of software defined TV receiver, where all the hardware is "legitimate" but oh look, there are ways to hack the device using software to make it do whatever you want. All I am saying is if ATSC1 goes dark and there are no good converter/PVR boxes out there, that's a big "need" that somebody's going to fill!

SiliconDust IS working on Encryption, and should have it fairly soon now. However, IF the providers themselves set "do not record" or "unskippable commercials" flags in the broadcast, then we won't be able to record, or skip.

 

[ancient]

SiliconDust IS working on Encryption, and should have it fairly soon now. However, IF the providers themselves set "do not record" or "unskippable commercials" flags in the broadcast, then we won't be able to record, or skip.

Not using SiliconDust devices, perhaps, but there will just be too big a market of people who want to be able to record shows and skip commercials (as they have been doing for the past two or three decades) for the pirate box makers to ignore.

I see this going one of four ways. One is that there will be an explosion of pirate boxes that pretend to be TV's but actually allow recording and skipping commercials. The second is that if the broadcasters start doing this, people will stop watching OTA TV and turn to broadband-delivered services only (plenty of content there now, on both the free and pay services). The third is that people will just turn to methods that, without regard to legality, let them download the shows they want to see (such as torrents and maybe Usenet binaries groups, if they are still a thing). The fourth, and I could particularly see this happening with the younger demographic, is that they will just stop watching TV altogether and spend their time in other online pursuits, such as video games or maybe some time of new interactive thing that hasn't appeared yet. None of these bode well for the broadcasters, and I suspect that someday they will rue the day when they tried to force ATSC3 onto an unwilling public. There will always be some people who use TV's solely for background noise, but even they can find streaming channels to watch (PlutoTV, TubiTV, XUMO, etc.).

And that's assuming there's no wild card that turns people against ATSC3; for example something that would cause all the conspiracy theorists to be as against ATSC3 as they are vaccinations (you can let your imaginations run wild with that one, but since they already think crazy things about 4G/5G signals I don't think it would actually take much to convince them there is something sinister about ATSC3. Just mention that embedded AC4 signal and you're off to the races).

What I do NOT EVER see happening again is people who are serious about following a TV show being forced to watch it at a scheduled time. This is not the 1950's anymore.

 

[TNGuy84]

Live TV is going the way of the rental store. It'll probably exist in some form (Redbox), but it's relevancy will dwindle down. People want to watch what they want without a lot of hassle. ATSC 3 and its control structure is going to kill off what little demand there is for live TV via OTA. That'll allow broadcasters to figure out ways of making revenue off their bandwidth. They already band together for this transition period. What would prevent broadcasters from utilizing their towers in some sort of shared revenue plan to distribute Wi-Fi? The cellphone companies already operate multiple bands together for high speed communications. Just make a modem that will tune the channel frequencies in a given area. At 6 MHz per channel and 5 channels to a given area, you've got 30MHz of bandwidth to divide among a group of users. ATSC 3 basically turns those bands into a data pipe that's capable of carrying whatever you can squeeze into it, rather than the digital audio/video data that's in use on it in 1.0.