Scott's DirecTV Review (DirecTV -VS- Dish)

[bonscott87]

Weird. The duplication is probably due to a mess up since you had a dealer activate all your stuff and then you had to call in because it wasn't right. Vast majority of people don't have a dealer activate stuff because there just aren't many DirecTV dealers out there.

My guess anyway.

 

[FHSPSU67]

Scott,
Weather you like the magazine or not, it is free, at least on your account.

I have never seen the listings being duplicated like that, but I also don't think it's anything to worry about.

Jimbo

Looks like a free 3-month subscription during which Scott will be inundated with offers to buy a full 1-year subscription w/ atomatic renewal.
Another thing that I find interesting is that there is no mirroring fee for his second receiver, only the $4.99 Leased Receiver fees. I called D* yesterday to ask why I was being charged for both and the CSR assured me that "yes, I should be paying for both fees". Anyone know for sure? I apologize if I've semi-hijacked this thread but I'd really like to know.
[edit] D* today confirmed that only the one fee was to be paid and issued credit for what I had been charged incorrectly for mirroring fees.

 

[Jimbo]

Looks like a free 3-month subscription during which Scott will be inundated with offers to buy a full 1-year subscription w/ atomatic renewal.
Another thing that I find interesting is that there is no mirroring fee for his second receiver, only the $4.99 Leased Receiver fees. I called D* yesterday to ask why I was being charged for both and the CSR assured me that "yes, I should be paying for both fees". Anyone know for sure? I apologize if I've semi-hijacked this thread but I'd really like to know.
[edit] D* today confirmed that only the one fee was to be paid and issued credit for what I had been charged incorrectly for mirroring fees.

FHSPSU67,
Normally there is a mirroring fee for all rec's starting with the 2nd one.

Jimbo

 

[skyviewmark]

Having been a E* retailer for about 9 years and a D* retailer for only two, I guess I am still a little bias about E*.. But I am really trying. Right now my D* sales are about 3 to every 1 E* sale. So I really am trying to get with the program. But I am still having problems getting used to D*. The channel linup just really bites big time.. Why aren't like channels grouped better. Why do I have to go through the PPV channels when I go from local to the sat channels. And my biggest gripe... Why do I have to see every freakin' channel that D* has listed on my guide.. Yea sure I can set up a favorite list.. Painful but it must be done. Isn't it possible for D* to set the guide out of the box to be able to switch to something that only shows subscribed channels..
I want so much to like D*. My sales show I need to like it better.. If I liked it better I suspect my sales would swing to almost 100% D*. People who don't know what they want get swung over to whatever I push them too.
I know that a lot of my operational problems that I have with D* are because I use my E* at home and have just plain gotten used to it.. I haven't seen a lot of PQ problems or differences so I can't even go there. It's just the feel.. And since I am used to the feel of E* it just seems better.. All in the head I know.. I can get just as many D* customers to tell me they prefer the feel of D*.. Because it is what they are used too.

This has not been a E* vs. D* rant. This is about the concerns of a dealer who sells both, is used to E* and wants so badly to like D*.

 

[FHSPSU67]

FHSPSU67,
Normally there is a mirroring fee for all rec's starting with the 2nd one.

Jimbo

No, once you lease a receiver the mirroring fee comes off and is replaced by a "leased receiver" fee. In my case I now have 4 D* leased receivers and I only pay three $4.99 lease fees - No mirror fees. The reason for my original question was that last month's bill did include the extra mirroring fees.

 

[robbiee19]

Having been a E* retailer for about 9 years and a D* retailer for only two, I guess I am still a little bias about E*.. But I am really trying. Right now my D* sales are about 3 to every 1 E* sale. So I really am trying to get with the program. But I am still having problems getting used to D*. The channel linup just really bites big time.. Why aren't like channels grouped better. Why do I have to go through the PPV channels when I go from local to the sat channels. And my biggest gripe... Why do I have to see every freakin' channel that D* has listed on my guide.. Yea sure I can set up a favorite list.. Painful but it must be done. Isn't it possible for D* to set the guide out of the box to be able to switch to something that only shows subscribed channels..
I want so much to like D*. My sales show I need to like it better.. If I liked it better I suspect my sales would swing to almost 100% D*. People who don't know what they want get swung over to whatever I push them too.
I know that a lot of my operational problems that I have with D* are because I use my E* at home and have just plain gotten used to it.. I haven't seen a lot of PQ problems or differences so I can't even go there. It's just the feel.. And since I am used to the feel of E* it just seems better.. All in the head I know.. I can get just as many D* customers to tell me they prefer the feel of D*.. Because it is what they are used too.

This has not been a E* vs. D* rant. This is about the concerns of a dealer who sells both, is used to E* and wants so badly to like D*.

I love D*. But with that said. I do have to agree with you on the CH line-up thing. It is a pain in the behind. Maybe (Everyone don't laught to hard) D* will change it after Sept. with all the new channel added.

 

[bonscott87]

The channel linup just really bites big time.. Why aren't like channels grouped better. Why do I have to go through the PPV channels when I go from local to the sat channels.

Just depends on what you're used to. I've had DirecTV for 11 years and things haven't changed much in that time.

100s - PPV
200s/300s - General "cable" channels
400s - Spanish and Porn
500s - Premium Movies
600s - Sports
700s - Sports packages (NFL ST, Center Ice, etc.)
800s - Music

In recent years they've been able to map the locals to the "real" channel number down below 100s.
And now HD is in the 70s-90s (soon to change I'd imagine).

Again, seems pretty simple to me, but then it's been setup this way for over a decade so it's all I've known.

And my biggest gripe... Why do I have to see every freakin' channel that D* has listed on my guide.. Yea sure I can set up a favorite list.. Painful but it must be done. Isn't it possible for D* to set the guide out of the box to be able to switch to something that only shows subscribed channels..

On any receiver I always setup a favorites list that doesn't include PPV and other channels I either don't get or don't care about. Not that hard to do.

As for automatic list of channels you subscribe to...DirecTV does have that capability. The problem is they have to make guide data changes to make it happen and when they did some older receivers choked on it (tin foil hat says that's what caused the DirecTivo's to take a dump last fall/winter). So they have to turn CIR (channels I receive) off for now until they can update the older receivers to not choke on the guide data.

And since I am used to the feel of E* it just seems better.. All in the head I know.. I can get just as many D* customers to tell me they prefer the feel of D*.. Because it is what they are used too.

Exactly. If I look at the Dish channel numbers I'd be lost and think it wasn't layed out well either. But that would be because I'm not used to it.

This has not been a E* vs. D* rant. This is about the concerns of a dealer who sells both, is used to E* and wants so badly to like D*.

If you really want to love D* that much as in because it makes business sense then perhaps you need to cut the cord with E* at home and get D* instead. That way you are using it and can get to know it better. Either that or have both in your home and use D* only say on a spare TV or something. Just some thoughts. Good luck!

 

[harshness]

They are mostly used for local RSN's and local HD network channels.

The Spaceway F1 and F2 satellites are used exclusively for RSNs and LILs. They tried doing a CONUS beam and it didn't work out.

 

[Brewer4]

The Spaceway F1 and F2 satellites are used exclusively for RSNs and LILs. They tried doing a CONUS beam and it didn't work out.

Thanks for the syntax. How do you know about the CONUS attempt? Was it posted somewhere?

 

[harshness]

The software won't change that.

Receiver software won't change the spotbeams, but the phased array technology used in the Spaceway satellites allows the spotbeams to be changed through software on the satellite without physically moving anything.

 

[harshness]

They've been up there going on 2 years now. Been broadcasting locals for nearly that long as well.

Spaceway F1 has been transmitting since October 10, 2005 and Spaceway F2 has been transmitting since April 19, 2006.

 

[rad]

Thanks for the syntax. How do you know about the CONUS attempt? Was it posted somewhere?

One user of this site, that had some inside connections at D*, said that's what they tried to do but weren't happy enough with the results to do it.

 

[harshness]

Thanks for the syntax. How do you know about the CONUS attempt? Was it posted somewhere?

A mod from "that other DBS forum" mentioned the CONUS attempt as told in an interview at CES early this year.

 

[raoul5788]

Receiver software won't change the spotbeams, but the phased array technology used in the Spaceway satellites allows the spotbeams to be changed through software on the satellite without physically moving anything.

Southbound was asking about the receiver software, not the Spaceway software.

 

[Brewer4]

A mod from "that other DBS forum" mentioned the CONUS attempt as told in an interview at CES early this year.

Thats good info. Thanks for sharing. I always thought they Spaceways were underutilized or at least not delivering completely. It must be since they were designed originally as 2 way internet sats. I still think there is more potential for them. I wonder if they will be used for any of the VOD over sat as Directv suggested would be available in July.

 

[rad]

As I mentioned in an earlier post (but guess you didn't believe me), someone on this site, LonghornXP, said back in thread http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-forum/44255-spaceway-2-launch-thread-its-up-2.html#post388669

I'm going to explain how they are going to use these two new satellites which are SW 1 & 2. They will be using these two satellites as two big spotbeams. One satellite for the western US and another satellite for the eastern US. That was one of the big reasons why they only announced the first 12 markets because those markets are all eastern US markets. LA doesn't count because they are currently on conus today along with the NY markets. Once SW 2 got up and working they announced a total of about 24 markets. They had enough conus space if needed to provide the big 4 networks for the top 12 markets if SW1 didn't go up. Now that Spaceway 1 is up they announced the next 12 markets which again they can offer conus only just in case spaceway 2 doesn't go up. If spaceway 2 goes up and is fully working they will announce more markets. I hope this gives you a better understanding of why they are doing these the way they are.

So when both spaceway 1 and 2 are up and working as expected they both will fuction as two big spotbeams with each serving one side of the USA.

This allows them to fully use the satellite to offer many more channels and allow all markets to overcome rain fade which does have more problems with KA than KU so having one higher powered spotbeam just covering one side of the US takes less bandwidth than having many spot beams always adjusting the power from market to market. Making many spotbeams on the fly does take more bandwidth because of error correction among other things.

Because DirecTV will be offering nearby HD locals to many markets that makes things much easier with a big spotbeam system as well.

But as with anything this system needs both satellites working at all times to offer national HD channels. So for example they can add Starz HD (a national channel) on both satellites as a spotbeamed channel the same way they will for say the Boston local ABC HD feed. So they using this system can offer Starz HD in the same amount of bandwidth as offering those local HD channels.

Each of these two satellites can from what I hear offer about 400 or so HD channels via one big spotbeam give or take 50 channels each way. So even at worse they can offer 350x2 or 700 HD channels using this system.

So lets say if they put every national HD feed on these satellites and see what they would have left over for HD LIL channels.

12 total NFL Sunday Ticket feeds or 24 spotbeam channels.
HDNet, HDNet Movies, InHD 1 & 2, ESPN HD 1 & 2, TNT HD, Universal HD, Wealth HD, OLN HD, MTV HD, NGC HD, FoodTV HD, Fox HD suite (lets say 5 HD channels) and the Voom21 suite.

So each of these channels above must count as two spotbeamed channels so we get a total of 78 spotbeamed channels. Now add the 78+24=102. Now add another 8 spotbeamed channels for stuff like HD PPV and sporting special events. So we have 110 total spotbeamed channels. Now if we add in HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, TMC and Starz HD feeds we would get another 10 spotbeamed channels for a total now of 120 total spotbeamed channels.

So if we now take at worse case 700 total available spotbeamed channels - 120 spotbeamed channels for pretty much all national HD channels out today we would have 580 spotbeamed channels left. So lets say that each and every market has 10 total HD local channels including RSNs, WB and UPN channels. We all know that not all markets will have 10 total feeds to carry but hey what the heck.

So that leaves us with 58 total markets they can serve for HD locals and RSNs until one of two things occur. They get everyone upgraded to MPEG4 boxes this allowing all MPEG2 channels on current satellites to be removed and new bandwidth created with new channel offerings which will be in MPEG4. Or the second option would be the two next satellites going up working the sameway that have even more bandwidth being used this way compared to spaceway 1 & 2.

So I hope this now gives you sometype of idear how these new satellites will be doing what they will be doing.

Edit..Also next years NFL Sunday Ticket won't be offered in MPEG2 so after this football season they will add a few extra HD channels in both MPEG2 and MPEG4 until they can get boxes swapped out. They are planning to get all HD customers boxes swapped out first (even if your not going to get HD locals yet because they don't need to replace your dish) once supply picks up because even without the dish being replaced they can move all existing HD channels to MPEG4 so doing this and removing the bandwidth for NFL ST games after the first of the year would allow a great increase in bandwidth for everyone. Swapping out boxes would be much quicker than sending a tech to install a new dish for everyone. Now I hope you can see what their plans are and why they are doing things this way.

I can't find the thread at this time where LonghornXP said that the idea for making this work was dead. LonghornXP used to be good source info but he moved and went to cable IIRC.

 

[rad]

Scott, it's been a couple of weeks since you've posted anything new about your experiences? There's been a couple of CE's since then, one was a major redo of the GUI on the Media Share function and the addition of FF autocorrection. Did you ever get the media share stuff working since your last post was the HR20 didn't see any files and that was back on the 24th.

 

[Jimbo]

As I mentioned in an earlier post (but guess you didn't believe me), someone on this site, LonghornXP, said back in thread http://www.satelliteguys.us/directv-forum/44255-spaceway-2-launch-thread-its-up-2.html#post388669

I'm going to explain how they are going to use these two new satellites which are SW 1 & 2. They will be using these two satellites as two big spotbeams. One satellite for the western US and another satellite for the eastern US. That was one of the big reasons why they only announced the first 12 markets because those markets are all eastern US markets. LA doesn't count because they are currently on conus today along with the NY markets. Once SW 2 got up and working they announced a total of about 24 markets. They had enough conus space if needed to provide the big 4 networks for the top 12 markets if SW1 didn't go up. Now that Spaceway 1 is up they announced the next 12 markets which again they can offer conus only just in case spaceway 2 doesn't go up. If spaceway 2 goes up and is fully working they will announce more markets. I hope this gives you a better understanding of why they are doing these the way they are.

So when both spaceway 1 and 2 are up and working as expected they both will fuction as two big spotbeams with each serving one side of the USA.

This allows them to fully use the satellite to offer many more channels and allow all markets to overcome rain fade which does have more problems with KA than KU so having one higher powered spotbeam just covering one side of the US takes less bandwidth than having many spot beams always adjusting the power from market to market. Making many spotbeams on the fly does take more bandwidth because of error correction among other things.

Because DirecTV will be offering nearby HD locals to many markets that makes things much easier with a big spotbeam system as well.

But as with anything this system needs both satellites working at all times to offer national HD channels. So for example they can add Starz HD (a national channel) on both satellites as a spotbeamed channel the same way they will for say the Boston local ABC HD feed. So they using this system can offer Starz HD in the same amount of bandwidth as offering those local HD channels.

Each of these two satellites can from what I hear offer about 400 or so HD channels via one big spotbeam give or take 50 channels each way. So even at worse they can offer 350x2 or 700 HD channels using this system.

So lets say if they put every national HD feed on these satellites and see what they would have left over for HD LIL channels.

12 total NFL Sunday Ticket feeds or 24 spotbeam channels.
HDNet, HDNet Movies, InHD 1 & 2, ESPN HD 1 & 2, TNT HD, Universal HD, Wealth HD, OLN HD, MTV HD, NGC HD, FoodTV HD, Fox HD suite (lets say 5 HD channels) and the Voom21 suite.

So each of these channels above must count as two spotbeamed channels so we get a total of 78 spotbeamed channels. Now add the 78+24=102. Now add another 8 spotbeamed channels for stuff like HD PPV and sporting special events. So we have 110 total spotbeamed channels. Now if we add in HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, TMC and Starz HD feeds we would get another 10 spotbeamed channels for a total now of 120 total spotbeamed channels.

So if we now take at worse case 700 total available spotbeamed channels - 120 spotbeamed channels for pretty much all national HD channels out today we would have 580 spotbeamed channels left. So lets say that each and every market has 10 total HD local channels including RSNs, WB and UPN channels. We all know that not all markets will have 10 total feeds to carry but hey what the heck.

So that leaves us with 58 total markets they can serve for HD locals and RSNs until one of two things occur. They get everyone upgraded to MPEG4 boxes this allowing all MPEG2 channels on current satellites to be removed and new bandwidth created with new channel offerings which will be in MPEG4. Or the second option would be the two next satellites going up working the sameway that have even more bandwidth being used this way compared to spaceway 1 & 2.

So I hope this now gives you sometype of idear how these new satellites will be doing what they will be doing.

Edit..Also next years NFL Sunday Ticket won't be offered in MPEG2 so after this football season they will add a few extra HD channels in both MPEG2 and MPEG4 until they can get boxes swapped out. They are planning to get all HD customers boxes swapped out first (even if your not going to get HD locals yet because they don't need to replace your dish) once supply picks up because even without the dish being replaced they can move all existing HD channels to MPEG4 so doing this and removing the bandwidth for NFL ST games after the first of the year would allow a great increase in bandwidth for everyone. Swapping out boxes would be much quicker than sending a tech to install a new dish for everyone. Now I hope you can see what their plans are and why they are doing things this way.

I can't find the thread at this time where LonghornXP said that the idea for making this work was dead. LonghornXP used to be good source info but he moved and went to cable IIRC.

Rad,
How long ago was this posted by Longhorn ? Just wondering how current it was, I didn't see a date.
All that information was great, till he said that the idea was now DEAD...
Could it be revisited with some adjustments ???

Jimbo

 

[harshness]

I wonder if they will be used for any of the VOD over sat as Directv suggested would be available in July.

VOD via satellite will very likely be MPEG2 as that will be the only way of delivering it to the R15; a platform design goal from 2004.

 

[harshness]

How long ago was this posted by Longhorn ? Just wondering how current it was, I didn't see a date.

If you click on the link that RAD provided, you can read the original message.

In hindsight we know that a good chunk of what was posted wasn't accurate. It was never intended to put up CONUS on the Spaceways. This was made clear in the original HD expansion announcement back in September of 2004. To wit:

The first two of these satellites, Spaceway 1 and Spaceway 2, will launch in 2005 with programming being offered to consumers by the middle of the year. These satellites will have the capacity for more than 500 local HD channels. With these satellites, DIRECTV will have the ability to bring local HD programming to most of the U.S. population, as well as continuing to expand standard-definition local offerings and other enhancements.

I hadn't previously noticed that the last few words of the sentence make mention of SD LIL expansion on the Spaceways too.