Saturday trip to Sadoun!

[zamar23]

Two years ago I went out to Satellite AV's HQ in California and was amazed with his office and warehouse. Also had great training from Brian himself on Glorystar installs. I am so glad I got a chance to go.

I would love to go to one of Sadouns Parking Lots sales, but everytime he has one I cant go due to other obligations.(

That would be nice, if the site sponsors make videos about their retail facilities and possibly warehouses (optional for dealers), so that smaller retailers can take a "distance learning" course, and potential walk-in buyers to beef up reasons to visit the remote shops presented. It will work for promoting FTA pretty well.

As to the above notion that FTA is DOA without a new "fix", no technology business is forever, if based on encouraging signal theft. I don't count drugs business and such, its a different story. In such mass demand field as Sat TV, how can we possibly talk about dying business instead of improving the established wrong business model? It looks like D* business model become successful first, then they had to find the way to protect their success. Other people can accomplish and outsmart this as well.

 

[SpiffWilkie]

That would be nice, if the site sponsors make videos about their retail facilities and possibly warehouses (optional for dealers), so that smaller retailers can take a "distance learning" course, and potential walk-in buyers to beef up reasons to visit the remote shops presented. It will work for promoting FTA pretty well.

As to the above notion that FTA is DOA without a new "fix", no technology business is forever, if based on encouraging signal theft. I don't count drugs business and such, its a different story. In such mass demand field as Sat TV, how can we possibly talk about dying business instead of improving the established wrong business model? It looks like D* business model become successful first, then they had to find the way to protect their success. Other people can accomplish and outsmart this as well.

I certainly hope that FTA remains alive and well. My point is that we live in a society that is always wanting more for less and with no hassle. Plug it in and make it work! Of course, we all know FTA doesn't work that way.
The problem is manufacturers want money. They get money by selling boxes. If there's not a big enough market for boxes, then they won't make them or they will charge a much higher price. Dishes, as far as consumers are concerned, would follow the boxes, I would think. If I don't have a box, I have no need to buy a dish.
And so it goes around.
So, back to my original point. From a consumer standpoint, are there enough hobbyists or people that rely solely on FTA for their t.v. to carry a big show?
I hope so!

And with all that being said, I don't encourage signal theft in the least. But we all know that signal theft is a big driving force in the sale of boxes. You are right to say that the business model needs a huge improvement. I hope someone comes along and is able to reinvigorate the FTA market. Surely there's someone lurking out there that has good ideas of how free satellite can make someone money. If anything it would force D* and E* to rethink their models and prices.
For now, I'll enjoy what I have.

One last thing to note is that I have no idea what sort of business our sponsors and like businesses get from non-hobbyists. I would find it interesting to see what percentage of their revenue comes from people like us.

 

[zamar23]

I agree, having some statistics at hand is good for starters. I don't think however, they'll share it. In fact, I already asked before on this forum, never answered. I only seen some pain expressions, but no analysis from sponsors, even less any stats that would allow FTA hobbyists (not dialers) to collectively discuss vision for a new business model.

As to equipment prices dependence on sales volume, its true. However, retail prices are mostly driven by local demand, and less by wholesale prices, which in turn are driven by order volume, but differentiated much less. Remember, Korean and Chinese STB makers won't stop making boxes, as they were making them for European and Asian markets, where FTA signals are plentiful, long before mass retail US Ku-market ever existed.

In fact, today's "fix" market (first fast growing and then nearly dying) seems to be indirectly prompted by more successful and technologically superior E* and similar guys, who created real Sat Ku-market in NA. FTA dialers followed, with most newcomers looking for easy money by addressing the "demand", as they seen it, or more precisely actively creating the demand for plug-n-play signal theft equipment. I like SatAV, Sadoun's, WSI and such tendency to work with equipment makers on designing new FTA equipment, pushing new specifications on them. But most did next to nothing to create a new business model for FTA in terms of signal source, and then complain, FTA market is dying. How about investing in FTA signal source, guys? Why don't collectively ask for public policy review on funding such FTA signal sources in NA? Of course, I must admit successful SatAV efforts in promoting religious programming. But the need is obvious for more diverse approach, with movies, sports and local news being the new FTA focus.

Now with signal market being monopolized by two companies, its not surprising to see their efforts to shut down others directly or by example. But it just shows that FTA today's business model is DOA, if stopping signal theft can make FTA disappear. It should start from signal market getting alive. I like Radar's idea about it, but without thoughtful public funding policy it may be DOA as well. For starters, how about this site sponsors supporting Radar's idea of a new FTA Station by cash influx? May be they can express their vision about future FTA market here? I wonder, if anyone in NA studied European FTA business model - how it survives?

 

[pwrsurge]

I agree, having some statistics at hand is good for starters. I don't think however, they'll share it. In fact, I already asked before on this forum, never answered. I only seen some pain expressions, but no analysis from sponsors, even less any stats that would allow FTA hobbyists (not dialers) to collectively discuss vision for a new business model.

As to equipment prices dependence on sales volume, its true. However, retail prices are mostly driven by local demand, and less by wholesale prices, which in turn is driven by order volume, but differentiated much less. Remember, Korean and Chinese STB makers won't stop making boxes, as they were making them for European and Asian markets, where FTA signals are plentiful, long before mass retail US Ku-market ever existed.

In fact, today's "fix" market (first fast growing and then nearly dying) seems to be indirectly prompted by more successful E* and similar guys, who created real Sat Ku-market in NA. FTA dialers followed, with most newcomers looking for easy money by addressing the "demand", as they seen it, or more precisely actively creating the demand for plug-n-play signal theft equipment. I like SatAV, Sadoun's, WSI and such tendency to work with equipment makers on designing new FTA equipment, pushing new specifications on them. But they did next to nothing to create a new business model for FTA in terms of signal source, and then complain, FTA market is dying. How about investing in FTA signal source, guys? Why don't collectively ask for public policy review on funding such FTA signal sources in NA?

With now signal market being monopolized by two companies, its not surprising to see their attempts to shut down others directly or by example. But it just shows that FTA today's business model is DOA, if stopping signal theft can make FTA disappear. It should start from signal market getting alive. I like Radar's idea about it, but without thoughtful public funding policy it may be DOA as well. For starters, how about this site sponsors supporting Radar's idea of a new FTA Station by cash influx? May be they can express their vision about future FTA market here?

How about we start finding local network stations willing to allow their signal being uplinked to some satellite if all costs are covered? Then the only thing we need to do is raise enough funds through some sort of co-op where members would contribute a certain amount each month to pay for the uplink time. We could all use the same satellite to try and get a group discount on uplink fees. The more members the co-op gets, the more stations get uplinked. Business co-op memberships would be more expensive as these members would most likely profit from these additional channels via increased FTA equipment sales.

 

[PopcornNMore]

My wife and I went to Sadoun on vacation two years ago. It was better than Disney World or the Grand Canyon. It was a great experience.

 

[guapoharry]

...I liken it to going into a local shop where I used to get my rock t-shirts and posters. ....

That metaphor/analogy goes too far. - Especially in the context of this forum...

Worldwide, legitimate FTA continues to exist.

So then, why can't a niche for the Americas be viable?

 

[SpiffWilkie]

That metaphor/analogy goes too far. - Especially in the context of this forum...

Worldwide, legitimate FTA continues to exist.

So then, why can't a niche for the Americas be viable?

In the context of the forum, I agree with you. I am in no way of accusing any sponsors or members of being in that mindset.
I hope that a niche market can be viable. Worldwide FTA is alive and well. North America FTA is alive and so-so. It's obvious that stable signals (G10R for example) are becoming rarer over time, though. The current FTA business model as far as broadcasting goes seems to be...there is none.

Now getting back to my analogy, my point with that was with "FTA" dealers (once again, NOT sponsors!) who sell only boxes that are well known to the other side to be usable in the theft of signal. Then, they have disclaimers all over their site that stealing satellite is illegal. Yet, they don't sell a dish over 30" or motors and all their LNBs are 110/119 combos, etc.
Whether we like it or not, the equipment they sell benefits our hobby. I know that my Diamond I got on here for cheap was used to steal E* sometime in its prior life but I love what it can do for me legally. Luckily enough, people stopped supporting it hack-wise and I got it on the cheap from someone else who presumably got it cheap as well.
I hope that if/when E* finally locks down their stuff for good, we can still get a good box at a decent price (AZBox, anyone?) here in the states. I hope that someone can come up with a good, legal use for FTA over here. Unfortunately, the big two ku folks and the cable companies have a tight grip on t.v. over here.

 

[Bill_KY]

Does one have to order online and then pick it up? Or can one just go up there and look around and buy?

 

[guapoharry]

How about we start finding local network stations willing to allow their signal being uplinked to some satellite if all costs are covered? Then the only thing we need to do is raise enough funds through some sort of co-op where members would contribute a certain amount each month to pay for the uplink time. We could all use the same satellite to try and get a group discount on uplink fees. The more members the co-op gets, the more stations get uplinked. Business co-op memberships would be more expensive as these members would most likely profit from these additional channels via increased FTA equipment sales.

Maybe this idea could be a part of or adjunct to AcWxRadar's programming threads...

Correct me if wrong, but aren't there rules where programming is (what is the right word...) territorial or proprietary within a market and/or from market to market?

Blacked out shows are what result from these contracts or rules...

What is this called?

 

[TimLones111]

Maybe this idea could be a part of or adjunct to AcWxRadar's programming threads...

Correct me if wrong, but aren't there rules where programming is (what is the right word...) territorial or proprietary within a market and/or from market to market?

Blacked out shows are what result from these contracts or rules...

What is this called?

Harry:
You are probably thinking of "Syndex" where most Syndicated shows are offered on one station per market area..And woe to anyone that tries to pick them up by "Illegal means"

 

[Mr Tony]

Does one have to order online and then pick it up? Or can one just go up there and look around and buy?

you can look around. They have a shop

 

[Mr Tony]

Harry:
You are probably thinking of "Syndex" where most Syndicated shows are offered on one station per market area..And woe to anyone that tries to pick them up by "Illegal means"

yep. Cable likes to blackout stuff. Had that a long time ago when I lived in Duluth, MN and had cable. Duluth had no UPN so they pumped in (at the time) KMSP 9 from Minneapolis. During the day all those judge/talk shows were blacked out because they were on one of the Duluth stations (usually at 2AM)...but they were blacked out on cable

 

[guapoharry]

Syndex - that's it.

 

[mruk69]

Does anyone know if there is a similar Satellite store in the Nashville, TN area?

 

[Bill_KY]

I took a ride up there today, somewhat over 2 hours each way. I needed some DiSEqC switches and got a couple of the WS7630 dishes they had on sale for $35 each and some assorted items. I couldn't look around the warehouse/shop, I waited in the show room. Good to know that they are kind of close by in case I ever need anything again. Salesman mentioned that they will be getting some new 90 cm dishes in soon.

BTW...Gas was even less expensive there in the Columbus area off I-270 @$2.43 a gallon, here it is $2.55 a gallon.